May 2022 Timetable Changes

[craigybagel]

As I mentioned on the driver route knowledge thread, the Stafford services were a nightmare to cover with so few drivers left who signed the route, and they don't really serve any useful purpose any more. Passenger loads North of Wolverhampton were usually very low. With a mountain of traction and route training to get through already it's a sad loss but arguably a sensible one.

 

[Watershed]

There is also a new 23:40 Shrewsbury to Holyhead service which covers the Chester to Holyhead section of the existing service.

True, however the train connecting into that service at Birmingham leaves considerably earlier (2J34 22:03 Birmingham-Shrewsbury), and the last train connecting into it from London and other stations is also now earlier.

The train has arrived into Holyhead too late for the ferries for some years now, but it was nevertheless a useful service.

 

[Class 170101]

As I mentioned on the driver route knowledge thread, the Stafford services were a nightmare to cover with so few drivers left who signed the route, and they don't really serve any useful purpose any more. Passenger loads North of Wolverhampton were usually very low. With a mountain of traction and route training to get through already it's a sad loss but arguably a sensible one.

Why did ATW have Stafford on their route card in the first place?

 

[JonathanH]

Why did ATW have Stafford on their route card in the first place?

They have run diversions via the Oxley curve or Wolverhampton in the past when the line via Nantwich has been shut but it is possible to go via Chester now.

 

[craigybagel]

Going back to when North Wales and South Wales services were worked by different TOCs, First North Western's Chester depot signed the route as part of a more regular (roughly 2 hourly) Holyhead to Birmingham via Stafford service. Wales and West/Wales and Borders Crewe depot signed the route as a diversion between Crewe and Shrewsbury. Under Arriva Trains Wales most of the Birmingham - Holyhead services were diverted via Wrexham, with just the 1 remaining Stafford service in each direction per day, worked by Chester drivers and Crewe guards (Chester guards on a Sunday). Crewe drivers kept it as a diversion route, and for cross-depot cover for the Chester worked services, but AFAIK it's not actually been used as a planned diversion route since about 2013 (there have been very occasional ad-hoc diversions since then, but it's extremely rare). Diverting via Chester is much quicker and easier to get paths for - and much more staff are competent that way.

Fast forward to today, with route learning for drivers only recently reintroduced after a hiatus during Covid there's very few drivers left who are still competent on Stafford, and there are much higher priorities for TFW's limited staff right now.

 

[karlbbb]

Merseyrail announced on Twitter earlier they're going back to the pre-Covid 15 minute timetable from 2nd May.

I believe the Ormskirk and Kirkby lines had been interworked on the 20 minute timetable - I think that'll stop now?

 

[Llandudno]

Merseyrail announced on Twitter earlier they're going back to the pre-Covid 15 minute timetable from 2nd May.

I believe the Ormskirk and Kirkby lines had been interworked on the 20 minute timetable - I think that'll stop now?

Excellent, well done Merseyrail!

How come they can achieve this, don’t they have any train crew shortages or Covid positives like seemingly most other TOC’s ?

Not to mention crew training on the new 777 units!

Plus don’t they operate the one of the oldest fleets of trains in the country?

 

[craigybagel]

Excellent, well done Merseyrail!

How come they can achieve this, don’t they have any train crew shortages or Covid positives like seemingly most other TOC’s ?

Not to mention crew training on the new 777 units!

Plus don’t they operate the one of the oldest fleets of trains in the country?

I would suspect their training requirements are pretty simple compared to other TOCs. A relatively small and simple route network, only one traction with which they already had decades of experience (I don't believe 777 training has started yet?) and they normally recruit their drivers from within their own guards.

Not to disparage the excellent work the folk at Merseyrail do, but I don't think it's fair to compare them to some of the other TOCs.

 

[Starmill]

True, however the train connecting into that service at Birmingham leaves considerably earlier (2J34 22:03 Birmingham-Shrewsbury), and the last train connecting into it from London and other stations is also now earlier.

The train has arrived into Holyhead too late for the ferries for some years now, but it was nevertheless a useful service.

At least the 2203 is actually running from the new timetable in a way that connects. It's current incarnation is a 2236 which would not connect.

 

[Finfanero]

Having reviewed Grand Central North East Services, it seems some are scheduled to stop at Doncaster ?

Realtime Trains | Departures from Doncaster all day on 21/07/2022

Train information at Doncaster all day on 21/07/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This one gets a whole 7 Minutes

Realtime Trains | 1A64 0954 Sunderland to London Kings Cross | 21/07/2022

Real-time train running information for 1A64 0954 departure from Sunderland to London Kings Cross on 21/07/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Johnny Lewis]

Having reviewed Grand Central North East Services, it seems some are scheduled to stop at Doncaster ?

Realtime Trains | Departures from Doncaster all day on 21/07/2022

Train information at Doncaster all day on 21/07/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This one gets a whole 7 Minutes

Realtime Trains | 1A64 0954 Sunderland to London Kings Cross | 21/07/2022

Real-time train running information for 1A64 0954 departure from Sunderland to London Kings Cross on 21/07/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

If you look though, the stop is unadvertised, so it will be for pathing reasons only and the exterior doors won't be released for passengers to get on or off.

Admittedly the stops in the two northbound trains from King's Cross to Sunderland at 08.27 and 19.27 don't show the stop as unadvertised, but Grand Central's own May to December 2022 timetable PDF is on their website now and doesn't show any Doncaster calls in Sunderland services - although they have added an extra train in each direction on this route.

 

[Tetchytyke]

all XC and LNER services should be withdrawn. The XC stock in particular is needed to strengthen services their core.

Controversial opinion, I know, but I genuinely don't see the need for any of these trains to extend to Glasgow. My pre-Covid experience was that changing at Edinburgh for the Queen Street shuttle was usually 15-20 minutes quicker than staying on the train to Glasgow Central.

I'm not convinced XC should be running beyond Edinburgh *at all* to be quite honest.

Motherwell-Edinburgh should be with Scotrail, and more WCML services should stop there for Motherwell-England.

Having reviewed Grand Central North East Services, it seems some are scheduled to stop at Doncaster ?

They're all greyed out, so they won't be passenger calls, even though not all are labelled as unadvertised. I'm guessing staffing or pathing.

 

[Halish Railway]

I'm not convinced XC should be running beyond Edinburgh *at all* to be quite honest.

Motherwell-Edinburgh should be with Scotrail, and more WCML services should stop there for Motherwell-England.

Glasgow and Motherwell to Newcastle can be done via Carlisle - Of course recently there’s been the addition of a second, faster Carlisle to Newcastle service which also has cheap Northern AP tickets.

 

[Tetchytyke]

This one gets a whole 7 Minutes

That one's pathing, as it let's the 0911 Edinburgh-London (which is non-stop from Newcastle- I didn't realise LNER were proposing changes to the Flying Scotsman!) overtake.

 

[Watershed]

Having reviewed Grand Central North East Services, it seems some are scheduled to stop at Doncaster ?

Realtime Trains | Departures from Doncaster all day on 21/07/2022

Train information at Doncaster all day on 21/07/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This one gets a whole 7 Minutes

Realtime Trains | 1A64 0954 Sunderland to London Kings Cross | 21/07/2022

Real-time train running information for 1A64 0954 departure from Sunderland to London Kings Cross on 21/07/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

These stops are unadvertised and usually exist for pathing reasons. Occasionally they can be for operational reasons (e.g. a crew change or dropping off/picking up a member of crew). GC don't have the requisite access rights to add (advertised) Doncaster calls into their Sunderland services.

They are largely equivalent to the stops you'll see in the schedule at Longlands Jn.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

That one's pathing, as it let's the 0911 Edinburgh-London (which is non-stop from Newcastle- I didn't realise LNER were proposing changes to the Flying Scotsman!) overtake.

The 09.11 from Edinburgh is a Lumo service.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The 09.11 from Edinburgh is a Lumo service.

D'oh!

 

[Peter0124]

Controversial opinion, I know, but I genuinely don't see the need for any of these trains to extend to Glasgow. My pre-Covid experience was that changing at Edinburgh for the Queen Street shuttle was usually 15-20 minutes quicker than staying on the train to Glasgow Central.

I'm not convinced XC should be running beyond Edinburgh *at all* to be quite honest.

I disagree at least for me, the convenience of a direct train (and by a more interesting route) is better than jumping on a service to Queen St and having to then walk across the city to get to Central (I know it's a short walk but still). And if the units aren't needed elsewhere (if for example they just sit in Craigentinny) then why not just extend them over to Glasgow?

 

[TheBigD]

This one gets a whole 7 Minutes

Realtime Trains | 1A64 0954 Sunderland to London Kings Cross | 21/07/2022

Real-time train running information for 1A64 0954 departure from Sunderland to London Kings Cross on 21/07/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

That one has a pretty poor path.
15 minutes stand at York, 7 at Doncaster, and then slow line from Stoke through to Fletton.

 

[jamesst]

I would suspect their training requirements are pretty simple compared to other TOCs. A relatively small and simple route network, only one traction with which they already had decades of experience (I don't believe 777 training has started yet?) and they normally recruit their drivers from within their own guards.

Not to disparage the excellent work the folk at Merseyrail do, but I don't think it's fair to compare them to some of the other TOCs.

And you'd be very wrong, they are still short on drivers and guards just the same as every other Toc, the service could be a bit 'interesting ' after the timetable changes.
It's more a political decision from merseytravel than anything else.

 

[craigybagel]

And you'd be very wrong, they are still short on drivers and guards just the same as every other Toc, the service could be a bit 'interesting ' after the timetable changes.
It's more a political decision from merseytravel than anything else.

I see. That's a more realistic reason that I foolishly didn't consider!

 

[800001]

That one has a pretty poor path.
15 minutes stand at York, 7 at Doncaster, and then slow line from Stoke through to Fletton.

Is this one of the extra services that was due to start when the timetable for all operators on east coast mainline was meant to be fully rewritten?
If so, it’s had to slot in amongst everything else, and when then rewritten 2023 timetable starts will gain a better run.

 

[adrock1976]

Controversial opinion, I know, but I genuinely don't see the need for any of these trains to extend to Glasgow. My pre-Covid experience was that changing at Edinburgh for the Queen Street shuttle was usually 15-20 minutes quicker than staying on the train to Glasgow Central.

I'm not convinced XC should be running beyond Edinburgh *at all* to be quite honest.

Motherwell-Edinburgh should be with Scotrail, and more WCML services should stop there for Motherwell-England.



They're all greyed out, so they won't be passenger calls, even though not all are labelled as unadvertised. I'm guessing staffing or pathing.

Regarding the bit in bold, that would only be true if travelling further onwards to destinations that are north of the Clyde.

For passengers requiring stations south of the Clyde, it is not any quicker due to the minimum interchange time of 30 minutes between Glasgow QS and Central stations.

I have never really been a fan of XC running beyond Edinburgh to Glasgow, being as normally it is the South West via Leeds train, which Leeds - West Central Scotland via York, Edinburgh, and Motherwell is not the shortest route. The shortest route from Leeds to Motherwell/Glasgow is via Appleby and Carlisle.

I am supportive of everything calling at Motherwell, as it also acts as a railhead for all of the towns that are next door to Motherwell.

 

[TheBigD]

Is this one of the extra services that was due to start when the timetable for all operators on east coast mainline was meant to be fully rewritten?
If so, it’s had to slot in amongst everything else, and when then rewritten 2023 timetable starts will gain a better run.

Yeah, it's a new service hence it fitting around others.

There's a couple of LNER Sunday Lincoln services that get looped en route in a similar fashion, and the Sundays 1335 Kings Cross to Leeds which gets looped twice at Grantham and Retford. All are services that we added to the Eureka timetable over the years.

Like you say, should be resolved once the new ECML timetable is eventually introduced.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Are there any changes for Chiltern 68s from May? Increase or Decrease?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Are there any changes for Chiltern 68s from May? Increase or Decrease?

The diagrams are unchanged.

 

[Basil Jet]

The new timetables for the whole country (except Barking Gospel Oak for some reason) are available on the Fab Digital site. I just posted a link but it was deleted, so I guess people have to construct the URL from

https colon slash slash timetables dot fabdigital dot uk slash nrt slash may2022 slash

 

[Lewlew]

https colon slash slash timetables dot fabdigital dot uk slash nrt slash may2022 slash

https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/nrt/may2022/

 

[Southern Dvr]

Index of /nrt/may2022

timetables.fabdigital.uk

 

[BrianB]

Index of /nrt/may2022

timetables.fabdigital.uk

That page is being tweaked and is now temporarily unavailable. The links are being finalised and will be live later this week.

https://timetables.fabdigital.uk/nrt/may2022/

That page is being tweaked and is now temporarily unavailable. The links are being finalised and will be live later this week.