I can also see Cathcart is still just hourly in the evenings between 20:44 and 23:14. A cut like that on a suburban line in Scotland's largest city doesn't send out a message to encourage us to use public transport... I've switched to my car for any journey other than going into the city.
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May 2022 Timetable Changes
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Paul Duck
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New Timetable looks pretty good for Northallerton. More services. Extra Grand Central to from London. Additional TP services, finally plugging the gap Northbound at 0630 and 0930.
Looks like only a couple of services make it to Salturn.
Looks like only a couple of services make it to Salturn.
xotGD
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That is good news. Let's hope that this time they can operate the service with some degree of reliability.
I would not rely on anything that is currently published. It can be taken as an indication of the best case scenario; most TOCs will be bidding for reductions in the next few weeks. To be honest, publication should have been delayed, if you ask me.
dk1
Veteran Member
Hoping the Euston-West Midlands service improves significantly on what’s uploaded so far else the Commonwealth Games crowds are in trouble.
philosopher
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My guess is that Avanti would run three trains an hour during this period, as there is almost guaranteed to be sufficient demand for it. Maintaining two trains an hour for most of the day risks bad publicity that neither Avanti nor the Commonwealth games organisers will want the bad publicity if the trains end up being very overcrowded.
The question then would they be able to do this without removing other services. I suspect the Chester / north Wales services will end being reduced unless crew availability improves significantly between now and the summer.
dk1
Veteran Member
I wonder what’s the main issue with crew availability is if going into Summer. Can’t see it being a problem unless they stopped training for any significant time during the pandemic or if they have any industrial dispute issues such as No drivers RDW agreement in place. Departures from Euston for much of the day at xx:43 & xx:59 on this corridor are very poor indeed.
philosopher
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From London to West Midlands Avanti service would be a lot better if they had removed the pre Covid xx03 service rather than xx23. That way, assuming the xx23 left four minutes earlier to serve both Watford and Rugby, you would have a far more passenger friendly 24 minute followed by a 36 minute gap. I am sure there is a valid reason why the xx23 rather than xx03 has been removed from the timetable, but a 16 minute followed by 44 minute gap sure is frustrating for a passenger perspective.
Plus the xx.43 (which is probably the busier service of the two) is first chronologically (ie the one most people on open tickets would get cause its a 44 minute gap to it) therefore it would have been better to remove the xx.03 as you say.
dk1
Veteran Member
I think it was Chief Planner who has explained the reason behind this before. I would say it’s to do with the xx:20 Manchester being in front. I know the xx:00 now leaves at xx:56 but there must be a reason this wouldn’t work with the xx:20.
HamworthyGoods
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Its because there’s an xx.15 Northampton
dk1
Veteran Member
Cheers. There’s the answer.
The withdrawal of the Glenrothes - Kirkcaldy section and the ScotRail fast services between Edinburgh and Kirkcaldy is now showing. A permanent journey time penalty for Cupar, Ladybank, Markinch and Kirkcaldy to Inverkeithing, Haymarket and Edinburgh of 6 or so minutes. Particularly poor for Cupar and Markinch which do not have LNER or CrossCountry services. Perth to Edinburgh journey times are extended similarly when there's not a service between Inverness and Edinburgh running.
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43074
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I do find it ironic at least 7 of their Edinburgh to Cowdenbeath trains during the day 'shunt' to Glenrothes (link to Real Time Trains) to turn back though, in light of all the fuss being made about seat miles etc in the consultation. Also poor is that most of the trains which terminate at Cowdenbeath have 55 minutes between inward and outward passenger workings, certainly an interesting way of doing an efficiency drive.
Edinburgh to Perth journey times are extended by 20 mins in some cases, including a few trains which call at all stations from Edinburgh then dwell in Ladybank loop for upwards of 5 minutes, Megabus will be pleased. It seems a bizarre time to be introducing the Glasgow to Dundee service, given it's duplicated along it's whole length by other services and the fact there are quite severe cuts both in Fife and to evening services in the Glasgow area.
I can see what they're getting at, given eventually they'll be extended to Leven. But yes I agree it's absolutely not an efficient use of resources, and isn't a competitive public transport service vs driving to Halbeath / Ingliston park and ride for Edinburgh, or driving to destination for anywhere in Fife.
Indeed. Particularly poor.
Unless CrossCountry reinstate their full Scotland-South West timetable, it's looking like the North-East ECML will remain down at 4tph compared to the 6tph we had in 2019. I look forward to the announcement that season tickets will be cut by 33%
splashoutradio
Member
Subject to the usual caveats: everything is subject to change, not all TOCs are yet included, some trains are missing and there are some noticeable errors that will inevitably be ironed out before the timetables go live, May 2022 timetables for most of the UK (some South East areas still to be covered) are now available at www.railwaydata.co.uk/timetables/May22. These will be updated 3 times a month in the run up to May 15th.
Did they increase by 50% in one go when the service increased?Unless CrossCountry reinstate their full Scotland-South West timetable, it's looking like the North-East ECML will remain down at 4tph compared to the 6tph we had in 2019. I look forward to the announcement that season tickets will be cut by 33%
What a superb resource - thanks!
I don't want to derail the topic by going off onto season ticket prices because we get into the complexities of different inflation measures which really is another topic, and I fully concede/am aware that the picture is more complex than my somewhat facetious comment.
It is worth emphasising that the extra TPE service up beyond York wasn't a 50% increase in services along the line - it was one extra service on the 5tph. So your framing of the question actually gets to the point of my grumble really: the post-Covid service changes seem to have been done in very unsystematic ways, with little coordination across TOCs. There are good operational reasons for both TPE and XC to cut back on the number of through routes, to improve reliability and/or train length. The problem is the both doing that together results in a very substantial cut in services - just a couple of years after Northern were told they couldn't run their Middlesbrough - Carlisle services up the ECML due to overcrowding.
Aware that there is this promised re-drawing of the timetable coming, but while the date for that is missing it feels like we are being strung along with a worse service, given that the noises are that XC won't be reinstating their other hourly train either. Given that we are on an exit trajectory from the pandemic, it's hard to see now why the service in May 2022 should be 33% less than in May 2019.
Class 170101
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These services are now diverted via Stirling
Realtime Trains | Departures from Inverness between 0200 and 0159 on 18/05/2022
Train information at Inverness between 0200 and 0159 on 18/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
with a dedicated service between Perth and Edinburgh via Kirkcaldy.
Realtime Trains | Departures from Kirkcaldy between 0200 and 0159 on 18/05/2022
Train information at Kirkcaldy between 0200 and 0159 on 18/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Indeed. As I said however journey times are significantly extended when there's not an Inverness to Edinburgh service.
A convenient side-effect of the use of Birkenhead North depot for the 230s.
Whether that service will actually run is another question. It's incredible to think there are aspirations for a half-hourly service, given the length of time (and number of periods) where the line has had a mere two-hourly service - even in the years before Covid.
Kite159
Veteran Member
Not sure if already mentioned but it looks like The Birmingham - Crewe via Stoke service changes to run & call at Tame Bridge from May. Guess that's getting ready to serve the new stations on the line between Wolverhampton & Tame Bridge when they open.
Also seems to call at Longport heading towards Crewe but not on the way back. Replacing most of the EMR calls at that station (although currently RTT is showing the Derby bound EMR services as calling there but unadvertised)
Also seems to call at Longport heading towards Crewe but not on the way back. Replacing most of the EMR calls at that station (although currently RTT is showing the Derby bound EMR services as calling there but unadvertised)
Good spot. A bit of a shame as those were often nice quiet services, being the only WMTs not to stop between New Street and Wolverhampton, but that was always only going to be a temporary position.
All of the stations north of WVH lose out to varying degrees as a result - it will now often be quicker to change at WVH to get to BHM. The journey time via Bescot has always been rather slow, and also there's quite a bit of pathing in there, presumably to accommodate the new station calls in due course.
EMR consulted to remove Longport calls except in a small handful of services recently. I imagine it will go ahead in favour of WMR picking them up both ways once the data is sorted out.
Kite159
Veteran Member
Makes sense, the EMR trains don't have a long turnaround at Crewe so the extra few minutes by not calling at Longport will help
If the station is worth keeping open, the Northern stopper ought to pick up calls there. It's not as if it doesn't have enough turnaround time (best part of an hour at Piccadilly and 17 mins at Stoke). I suppose the problem is that the current path has the XC Bristol service right up its backside in and out of Stoke, if/when that ever gets reintroduced.
This is sadly one of many stealth cuts during Covid, where calls or services have "temporarily" been removed under the guise of Covid, when the true intention is never to reintroduce them.
A through service to Macclesfield / Stockport / Manchester might actually be more valuable long term, but Longport will have built up a regular custom now of people going to Crewe, or connecting at Crewe, who will not be pleased if that through service is removed.
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