Minor things on trains which irritate you

[dk1]

Yeah some people think I'm crazy when I say this, but I find they hum quite gently at full pelt. Have some nice memories of speeding down the Clyde valley in one and looking out at the landscape through the massive windows while the engines hum underneath.

It's at low speed that they sound bad, especially because they seem to trigger the interior panels to vibrate at when they're at that frequency.

Not crazy at all mate. Some would choke rather than agree to anything that’s not negative about them. I must say I enjoy the ‘growl’ as they pull away too.

 

[py_megapixel]

I must say I enjoy the ‘growl’ as they pull away too.

I don't! There's a specific speed at which the whole thing feels like it's going to shake itself to bits.

I agree in general that they aren't bad at speed by the standards of diesels - but having a diesel engine under the floor at all is not ideal! Maybe one day the whole XC network will be electrified and we can do away with them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree in general that they aren't bad at speed by the standards of diesels - but having a diesel engine under the floor at all is not ideal!

Diesel engines are not ideal in general, but 80x really do seem to have reached the point where you can barely tell at all.

 

[dk1]

I don't! There's a specific speed at which the whole thing feels like it's going to shake itself to bits.

I agree in general that they aren't bad at speed by the standards of diesels - but having a diesel engine under the floor at all is not ideal! Maybe one day the whole XC network will be electrified and we can do away with them.

I think they’ll be long retired before the whole XC network is electrified & most probably most posters on here will be too.

 

[RAGNARØKR]

Such a long list of complaints, and it is not just a problem in Britain. It seems that each generation of new trains is worse than those they replaced. This has been the case to some extent since the end of the 1950s. It doesn't just apply to trains.

I would suggest that there is something fundamentally wrong with the way that public transport vehicles are specified and procured.

One of the issues is that the executives and managers responsible rarely travel in them, a trend which began around 1955.

The generally good ambience of the class 180 is an exception. There is a background to this; the design was probably derived from the BREL International which was put together with the aim of getting rid of all the niggles with the mark 3 design.

 

[Peter0124]

I need to press the button to open train doors, unlike London Underground where all train doors open automatically.
Not all trains have 5 pairs of doors in each carriages, making boarding and alighting slow.
The position of door layout is not unified across the country, such that it's impossible to draw queuing lines on the platform for efficient boarding and alighting.
Not all platforms and train floor are built to the same height, requiring a step to board some trains.

If all the doors opened automatically at each stop (when nobody even boards the train) it would get quite cold in winter!

 

[Blindtraveler]

What XC really need is a fleet of fixed formation 8 coach 755 units with a a very small sub fleet of 4 coach ones that could do do the current turbo star duties that have short platforms and other such issues.



Back to topic however, I discovered something else that really annoyed me last night. The quality of the PA microphone on all the modern Hitachi stock, it's definitely not the speakers as automated announcements are crystal-clear but ever since these came inter-service and I've noticed it many times before but particularly last night when I was trying to hear a guards detailed explanation of slow running and struggling a bit any manual announcement has been made through an inferior quality microphone not just to other stock on the network but also to the match earlier 395 on southeastern

 

[43096]

The generally good ambience of the class 180 is an exception. There is a background to this; the design was probably derived from the BREL International which was put together with the aim of getting rid of all the niggles with the mark 3 design.

I'd be sceptical about that. The BREL International coach was "Derby" heritage and then into ABB, ADtranz and Bombardier lineage.

The 180s were GEC-Alsthom heritage (later into Alstom), so would be more likely derived from the Mark 4 and Class 156.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not all trains have 5 pairs of doors in each carriages, making boarding and alighting slow.

Time for another edition of "the UK is not an Asian megacity and does not have the same needs"?

The generally good ambience of the class 180 is an exception. There is a background to this; the design was probably derived from the BREL International which was put together with the aim of getting rid of all the niggles with the mark 3 design.

The 175/180 is a MetCamm (Alstom) product and thus essentially a poshed up 156.

 

[yorksrob]

Such a long list of complaints, and it is not just a problem in Britain. It seems that each generation of new trains is worse than those they replaced. This has been the case to some extent since the end of the 1950s. It doesn't just apply to trains.

I would suggest that there is something fundamentally wrong with the way that public transport vehicles are specified and procured.

I feel that your cut off point may be slightly too early.

I'm to young to have traveled on the the PAN/PUL units replaced by the phase 1 CIG's, or Maunsell stock replaced by the CEP units in the early to mid 1960's, I suspect that any difference in comfort wouldn't have been as pronounced as with more modern stock !

 

[trebor79]

Diesel engines are not ideal in general, but 80x really do seem to have reached the point where you can barely tell at all.

Agree with this. I can never tell whether the engines are running or not. The only real clue is a very distant turbo whistle when pulling away, and a few seconds of vibration when they start up and shut down.
It is very impressive noise and vibration damping.
Mind you, the comparatively loud air conditioning noise does help to mask the engines

 

[Farang]

The generally good ambience of the class 180 is an exception. There is a background to this; the design was probably derived from the BREL International which was put together with the aim of getting rid of all the niggles with the mark 3 design.

Interesting. GWR used 180's for a while and they rattled something rotten. I much preferred the 125's. They didn't keep the 180's for long - maybe others felt the same way.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agree with this. I can never tell whether the engines are running or not. The only real clue is a very distant turbo whistle when pulling away, and a few seconds of vibration when they start up and shut down.
It is very impressive noise and vibration damping.
Mind you, the comparatively loud air conditioning noise does help to mask the engines

It is fairly loud but I don't think it is any louder than Desiros, and you can tell that there is a massive lump vibrating away under a Class 185.

Interesting. GWR used 180's for a while and they rattled something rotten. I much preferred the 125's. They didn't keep the 180's for long - maybe others felt the same way.

180s are unreliable, that is why TOCs don't like them.

 

[supervc-10]

Going back to the toilet sink issues- the absolute worst are the ones that give you some water, you wet your hands, lather, and then the tap decides you've had enough water now and turns off and won't turn on again. Completely infuriating.

 

[yorksrob]

Going back to the toilet sink issues- the absolute worst are the ones that give you some water, you wet your hands, lather, and then the tap decides you've had enough water now and turns off and won't turn on again. Completely infuriating.

That seems to be most of them nowadays.

 

[Mikey C]

Going back to the toilet sink issues- the absolute worst are the ones that give you some water, you wet your hands, lather, and then the tap decides you've had enough water now and turns off and won't turn on again. Completely infuriating.

The automatic handwashers in many public toilets are like that too. Too much soap, not enough water!

 

[ABB125]

In a similar vein, dryers which decide you've had enough hot air, so stop working, no matter how much you wave your hands about underneath the sensor. Happens everywhere, not just on trains (but is very annoying on trains!).

 

[Watershed]

A gripe from me - the way that the tables shake on 175s. It's simply shoddy design; they haven't been bolted to something sufficiently 'solid'. Frankly, I dread to think what would happen in an accident. It's rather challenging to try and use a laptop (especially in the aisle seat), as your mouse will jump all over the place!

To which I would add:
Sinks which have no water but you didn't know that when you rubbed soap all over your hands

Ah, the sign of a novice. You have to test the water before you apply soap! Now of course that perpetuates the cycle of running out, but needs must...

without crawling around on your hands and knees to locate exactly where the holes are.

Ooh, matron

no redeeming features at all, in either class.

A little harsh, no? They have many flaws, but I'd say

• they have amongst the best ride quality of any train
• the First Class is very comfortable, and even Standard is perfectly decent
• there are plug sockets at every row, which is pretty unusual for a train of its era - and even some modern day trains lack them
• the air conditioning is reasonably effective
• they are amongst the fastest intercity diesel trains in existence, meaning that journey times are shorter than they would otherwise be
• the doors are quick to open, as they're driver controlled and if you hold the button down, the doors open as soon as they're released
• they're pretty reliable
• on XC sets, there are no annoying automated announcements

 

[Nova1]

Rediculously fast automated pis tannoy on the south west trains units (if it still exists),

This train is for weymoutthe next station is Basingstoke
The next station is portsmout and southseathis train is for London Waterloo
Etc

And then on the other hand I've noticed recently that the West Midlands Railway 172s have started stuttering when reading out announcements... which is really bad when it's announcing this train calls at birmingham snow hill... jewlerry quarter......... the hawthorns...................... smethwick galton bridge....... it's so annoying!

 

[Bletchleyite]

A gripe from me - the way that the tables shake on 175s. It's simply shoddy design; they haven't been bolted to something sufficiently 'solid'. Frankly, I dread to think what would happen in an accident. It's rather challenging to try and use a laptop (especially in the aisle seat), as your mouse will jump all over the place!

The seats also move about a bit.

The reason, as I understand it, is that in order to reduce engine vibrations 175/180 have a floating floor, so everything has to be bolted to the floor and not the sidewall.

 

[johntea]

When you sit down, plug your phone in and...nothing!

It seems to be a common issue on the Harrogate (ex ScotRail) 170 stock in particular for some reason, where if you play musical chairs for a bit you will eventually find a working socket

 

[DM352]

I used to use SW 455's in the days with those horrible low back seats. With that, they felt so open plan compared to the older stock at the time, and the taller seats since seem better suited.

Going home in them my pet peeve used to be someone getting on often at Waterloo close to departure time with smelly food and then eating it in the seat opposite me.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Another vote for the absolutely awful internal doors on the Class 150s - I'd like to personally spar with the numpty who designed the locking mechanism as it will not stay with ease.
At the point the 150 does eventually reach more than 45mph, it'll fly straight open and into a large steel element of the carriage frame with a huge crash.
That and the seat cushions that have loose bottom fixings and have a tendency to yeet themselves onto the floor at any given slight force being applied.

The Meccano expresses built by CAF are mostly good with interior features at least, apart from the appalling build quality on some of the Cl195 plugs I've used.

 

[trebor79]

[80x air conditioning]

It is fairly loud but I don't think it is any louder than Desiros, and you can tell that there is a massive lump vibrating away under a Class 185.

I've not been on a Desiro. The other thing about 80x air conditioning is that some carriages seem to suffer from a high-pitched whistling noise from the HVAC when the door seals inflate. It can be quite intrusive, particularly once you've noticed it coming and going in perfect synchrony with the door seal activity.

Going back to the toilet sink issues- the absolute worst are the ones that give you some water, you wet your hands, lather, and then the tap decides you've had enough water now and turns off and won't turn on again. Completely infuriating.

The 755 and 745 toilets are bad for this. I've got a technique now which seems to work most of the time. You get 6 chances to use the water, so I keep my hands waving about to keep the sensor "on" whilst I rinse.

That reminds me of the other 80x annoyance which is the useless tiny sinks, with half the water dripping off your hands onto the floor or dribbling down the wall.

 

[QSK19]

[80x air conditioning]

I've not been on a Desiro. The other thing about 80x air conditioning is that some carriages seem to suffer from a high-pitched whistling noise from the HVAC when the door seals inflate. It can be quite intrusive, particularly once you've noticed it coming and going in perfect synchrony with the door seal activity.


The 755 and 745 toilets are bad for this. I've got a technique now which seems to work most of the time. You get 6 chances to use the water, so I keep my hands waving about to keep the sensor "on" whilst I rinse.

That reminds me of the other 80x annoyance which is the useless tiny sinks, with half the water dripping off your hands onto the floor or dribbling down the wall.

My thought in respect of the various observations on the 80x:

EMR/Hitachi - I hope you’ve heeded advice such as these points when designing and constructing the 810s. Bet they haven’t, though, and all these issues will still be there when the first ones roll off the line.

 

[jamesst]

Such a long list of complaints, and it is not just a problem in Britain. It seems that each generation of new trains is worse than those they replaced. This has been the case to some extent since the end of the 1950s. It doesn't just apply to trains.

I would suggest that there is something fundamentally wrong with the way that public transport vehicles are specified and procured.

One of the issues is that the executives and managers responsible rarely travel in them, a trend which began around 1955.

The generally good ambience of the class 180 is an exception. There is a background to this; the design was probably derived from the BREL International which was put together with the aim of getting rid of all the niggles with the mark 3 design.

Or people just love to whinge

 

[trebor79]

Or people just love to whinge

I like the 80x, they are great trains to travel in and are far better than I had feared they would be. The interior colour scheme is a bit bland but that's just a decoration issue.
I don't think pointing out defects and where improvements can be made is "whingeing".

 

[Bletchleyite]

I like the 80x, they are great trains to travel in and are far better than I had feared they would be. The interior colour scheme is a bit bland but that's just a decoration issue.
I don't think pointing out defects and where improvements can be made is "whingeing".

I agree the GWR ones have all the internal ambiance of a 1990s bus with the lime green and grey. However, the LNER red looks warm and welcoming, and the TPE blue quite classy. Shows the difference simple colour can make.

 

[Techniquest]

See I don't like the LNER colour scheme when it comes to the interior, I like the TP interior though. GWR's interior, yes I like that too. Hopefully EMR don't make their trains too purple inside and out, and Avanti's IETs could look good. We'll see but I just don't like LNER, it's a bit of a weird thing that, I know, but if it wasn't for their IET fleet I'd happily travel on another TOC/other transport method!

 

[Mat17]

What really, really bugs me is the heating ducting that runs along the carriage wall at floor level. There was a time when you could sit there with your foot resting on top of it, and it was quite comfortable. Then came the refurbs and the ducting was altered to slanted/sloped. So you can't rest your feet on it any more but it also gets in the way of your foot room now.

My other pet hate was the cooking cabbage smell on 153s.