MML Electrification: progress updates

[edwin_m]

No, but that is where it gets complicated.
As HS2 (East) now seems to end at East Midlands parkway (from the Birmingham area) is the new station at Toton now scuppered, and would all HS2 trains for the north trundle round via Derby and Ambergate ?

They need to serve Derby, and the higher speeds on that route mean it wouldn't take that much longer than via the Erewash anyway.

 

[Nottingham59]

They need to serve Derby, and the higher speeds on that route mean it wouldn't take that much longer than via the Erewash anyway.

In the days of the Master Cutler, I think it saved 10-15 minutes going via the Erewash Valley

Master Cutler routing

Hi all, Just been having a quick peruse of the 2001 national rail timetable, and I noted the 07.27 Master Cutler service from Sheffield to London overtakes the 07.19 departure. There's no clear long dwells in the 07.19 departure, so I'm just wondering if the 07.27 master cutler was routed via...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Meerkat]

They need to serve Derby

Is that set in stone? If Leeds and Sheffield demand faster trains then is Derby any bigger than other places that will be off route once HS2 is in place (ie Coventry, Wolverhampton, Stockport)?

 

[zwk500]

In the days of the Master Cutler, I think it saved 10-15 minutes going via the Erewash Valley

Master Cutler routing

Hi all, Just been having a quick peruse of the 2001 national rail timetable, and I noted the 07.27 Master Cutler service from Sheffield to London overtakes the 07.19 departure. There's no clear long dwells in the 07.19 departure, so I'm just wondering if the 07.27 master cutler was routed via...

www.railforums.co.uk

The Derby route has been upgraded more than the Erewash Valley since then!

 

[bluelagoon8951]

surely going via derby is now faster for any train? line speed is definitely higher, and with nottingham you'd have to change ends to get onto the erewash valley line

 

[Meerkat]

surely going via derby is now faster for any train? line speed is definitely higher, and with nottingham you'd have to change ends to get onto the erewash valley line

I assume it would be for direct trains, not calling at Derby nor Nottingham. In which case I would imagine electrification would be linked to an upgrade programme to increase the speed limits.

 

[bib]

Quote from this thread said that based on SRTs the Erewash valley route is 3.5mins faster for non-stop running, add in a stop at Derby and its probably 5-6 mins quicker potentially. Though I'm not sure if that was before or after Derby station remodelling.
Although it's a different story if it is a XC service which sits in Derby for about 6 mins and has 7 mins of pathing/performance allowance between Derby-Sheffield, but I don't think XC will be running trains over Trent Junction any time soon.

 

[zwk500]

I assume it would be for direct trains, not calling at Derby nor Nottingham. In which case I would imagine electrification would be linked to an upgrade programme to increase the speed limits.

You'd need one hell of a job to upgrade the Erewash to compete against the Derby route. Chesterfield/Clay Cross Jns, Ironville jns, Trowell Jns, Toton area, Trent, etc...

 

[edwin_m]

Is that set in stone? If Leeds and Sheffield demand faster trains then is Derby any bigger than other places that will be off route once HS2 is in place (ie Coventry, Wolverhampton, Stockport)?

The current plans don't include access to Leeds, and it's unlikely that Sheffield would justify London trains without an intermediate stop. There's supposed to be a study into Leeds, and it's possible that would recommend access via the Erewash, though I struggle to see how it would work considering the low speeds versus the ECML and the capacity issues through Sheffield.

 

[Mollman]

Network Rail to change electrification delivery on Midland Main Line to make cost savings | New Civil Engineer

Minutes from Network Rail's December board meeting, published on Friday, explain that the programme aims "to change the way electrification was delivered

www.newcivilengineer.com

The procurement process for the next phase of the MML electrification programme north of Leicester, beyond Corby, to Nottingham and Sheffield was given the green light at the meeting and the search for a contractor began in January of this year.

Thanks for this, I am guessing 'beyond Corby' is not meaning Corby - Melton - Sytson Jnc has not secretly been added to the scope!

 

[ricoblade]

Network Rail to change electrification delivery on Midland Main Line to make cost savings | New Civil Engineer

Minutes from Network Rail's December board meeting, published on Friday, explain that the programme aims "to change the way electrification was delivered

www.newcivilengineer.com

Thanks, exciting to see Sheffield finally mentioned in something more than a wish list but am cautious of cancellations, as per the last 40-50 years!

 

[adamedwards]

I can't see the Erewash Valley line being wired any time soon. HS2 as planned would have bypassed it. The revised Govt plans for HS2 see it routed via Nottingham and Doncaster to Leeds with some possible new lines, assuming this ever happens. The case for the Erewash Valley would rest on either freight decarbonisation or a major upgrade of the Norwich - Peterborough - Nottingham - Sheffield - Manchester - Liverpool axis. That's a lot of miles to be electrified elsewhere first before the line via Alfreton.

Once the wires reach Sheffield via Derby, the priority is much more likely to be on to Doncaster and Leeds and from Derby to Birmingham, with Cross Country changing to bimode trains to make the most of the Edinburgh to Birmingham wiring so created, plus electric local stopping trains. Nottingham to Birmingham will use HS2 and be very fast indeed.

 

[zwk500]

I can't see the Erewash Valley line being wired any time soon. HS2 as planned would have bypassed it. The revised Govt plans for HS2 see it routed via Nottingham and Doncaster to Leeds with some possible new lines, assuming this ever happens. The case for the Erewash Valley would rest on either freight decarbonisation or a major upgrade of the Norwich - Peterborough - Nottingham - Sheffield - Manchester - Liverpool axis. That's a lot of miles to be electrified elsewhere first before the line via Alfreton.

The case for the Erewash valley may also be made if a service uplift of the Sheffield-Nottingham locals was planned, or to eek out capacity through Dronfield by using EMUs.

Once the wires reach Sheffield via Derby, the priority is much more likely to be on to Doncaster and Leeds and from Derby to Birmingham, with Cross Country changing to bimode trains to make the most of the Edinburgh to Birmingham wiring so created, plus electric local stopping trains. Nottingham to Birmingham will use HS2 and be very fast indeed.

I don't think XC will be the priority. I think metro electrification - South/West Yorks, Manchester, Birmingham, Bristol - will all be higher up the list than XC. The whole point of Bi-modes is that you don't need to wire bits that are more marginal. If you're doing Derby to Birmingham you may as well do King's Norton Fasts and Bromsgrove to Yate to convert the XC core to full OLE but I don't see that happening any time soon.

 

[Senex]

The Derby route has been upgraded more than the Erewash Valley since then!

In terms of the PSRs, isn't the Erewash Valley line still pretty much as it was in the 60s, whereas the Derby - Chesterfield line got a fairly substantial upgrade as part of the Birmingham-Sheffield work for Operation Princess (the one section of the planned upgrading of the cross-country route that did actually get done).

 

[zwk500]

In terms of the PSRs, isn't the Erewash Valley line still pretty much as it was in the 60s, whereas the Derby - Chesterfield line got a fairly substantial upgrade as part of the Birmingham-Sheffield work for Operation Princess (the one section of the planned upgrading of the cross-country route that did actually get done).

Can't comment on what it was, but according to OpenRailwayMap it's 80mph vs the Derby route's 110mph.

 

[CdBrux]

Network Rail to change electrification delivery on Midland Main Line to make cost savings | New Civil Engineer

Minutes from Network Rail's December board meeting, published on Friday, explain that the programme aims "to change the way electrification was delivered

www.newcivilengineer.com

As this is behind a paywall is there any indication of what changes were made and how they save money?

 

[Nottingham59]

As this is behind a paywall is there any indication of what changes were made and how they save money?

The minutes are publicly available here:

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Board-minutes-1-December-2022.pdf

Paper 93/22 sought endorsement of the sourcing strategy for the Midland Main Line Electrification (MMLE) Programme. That Programme aimed to change the way electrification was delivered to achieve savings when compared with the CP5 single track kilometre rate.
The procurement process would commence in January 2023, within an overall Anticipated Final Cost range as set out in the paper and having contract values as set out in that paper. In due course the Board would be asked to review, and if thought appropriate, grant the authorities required to award and enter into a contract.
MMLE was the first step in the Traction Decarbonisation National Strategy and would extend electric operation on the Midland Main Line beyond Corby, to Nottingham and Sheffield.
The Board asked about the incentives to prevent the project being over-engineered. This was being done by including a clause in the contract stipulating that profit could only be achieved if the design was within budget.
The Board was advised that funding for enhancement projects (RNEP) would be constrained in CP7. After due consideration the Board APPROVED the request to commence procurement activities for the next phase of MMLE North of Leicester, subject to the Region working closely with the Chief Financial Officer before finalising the scope of works to be included in the procurement, the Anticipated Final Cost range and anticipated contract values. The Board commended Rob McIntosh and his team for a very well written paper.

That's all there is. It does say they need to finalise the scope of works before proceeding with procurement for electrification north of Leicester.

 

[edwin_m]

In terms of the PSRs, isn't the Erewash Valley line still pretty much as it was in the 60s, whereas the Derby - Chesterfield line got a fairly substantial upgrade as part of the Birmingham-Sheffield work for Operation Princess (the one section of the planned upgrading of the cross-country route that did actually get done).

The Erewash has several curves which are (by observation of the OS map) around 1000m radius, scattered along the route so that there isn't much chance to accelerate between them (though electrification would help with that). That via Derby has much gentler curves, except for the one just south of Derby itself where all trains would stop anyway. Any substantial upgrade to the Erewash would require realignment outside the railway boundary, some affecting river or canal crossings which are possibly the reason for the curve being there in the first place.

 

[snowball]

That's all there is. It does say they need to finalise the scope of works before proceeding with procurement for electrification north of Leicester.

and in doing so, confirms that the next section to be done will be north of Leicester, not the one through Leicester.

 

[Nottingham59]

and in doing so, confirms that the next section to be done will be north of Leicester, not the one through Leicester.

That's my assumption too, but Wigston is actually in Leicester so I wouldn't read too much into it.

 

[Mikey C]

The minutes are publicly available here:

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Board-minutes-1-December-2022.pdf

That's all there is. It does say they need to finalise the scope of works before proceeding with procurement for electrification north of Leicester.

Sorry, but trying to get the time periods right in my head, but the minutes talk about "savings when compared with the CP5 single track kilometre rate." Was any of the recent MML work done within CP5 or was it all CP6?

 

[zwk500]

Sorry, but trying to get the time periods right in my head, but the minutes talk about "savings when compared with the CP5 single track kilometre rate." Was any of the recent MML work done within CP5 or was it all CP6?

CP5 was 2014-19, CP6 is 2019-2024, etc. So IIRC Bedford-Corby Electrification was started in CP5 but ran into CP6.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

CP5 was 2014-19, CP6 is 2019-2024, etc. So IIRC Bedford-Corby Electrification was started in CP5 but ran into CP6.

I will try and find documentation to support but quite a few civils on the route were started in CP5.

I dont have a clickable link sorry, but RAIL August 6th 2014 article detailed quite a bit.

 

[snowball]

At the end of CP5, this thread was on page 88. You can go back to there and see where work was up to.

Or you can go back to page 1 and see where things were nine months into CP5.

 

[zwk500]

At the end of CP5, this thread was on page 88. You can go back to there and see where work was up to.

Or you can go back to page 1 and see where things were nine months into CP5.

What a way to track it

 

[GRALISTAIR]

MML Electrification: progress updates

Apologies to Glendon......I had been wandering through Northamptonshire, past Grendon Lakes, and my brain faded when typing! Here is a picture Northwards to make up for my error. Looks like a pair of Tensorex Series 1-style booms are going up there.

www.railforums.co.uk

In particular the above post from @59CosG95 where he gave an extremely detailed progressometer report. Post 2618

 

[PJM]

Wow! As ever 59CosG95 fantastic detail!

 

[Mikey C]

CP5 was 2014-19, CP6 is 2019-2024, etc. So IIRC Bedford-Corby Electrification was started in CP5 but ran into CP6.

Thanks. The work from Kettering to Market Harborough and Wigston I assume would be CP6 then? I would have assumed that any lessons from CP5 would already have been incorporated in the current work?

 

[zwk500]

Thanks. The work from Kettering to Market Harborough and Wigston I assume would be CP6 then?

Can't remember, see the posts linked above, but certainly possible.

I would have assumed that any lessons from CP5 would already have been incorporated in the current work?

I couldn't possibly comment.

 

[InTheEastMids]

I will try and find documentation to support but quite a few civils on the route were started in CP5

This link to the Leicester Mercury details 3 bridges that were rebuilt North of Leicester

Revealed: Millions wasted on scrapped electrification project

Rail bridges and gantries have already been adapted at huge expense in Leicestershire

www.leicestermercury.co.uk

Plus Station Street bridge in Kibworth was rebuilt in 2013 and so is electrification ready