NET Extension

[LowLevel]

If you say you're using the footbridge as a public footpath there won't be an issue, if you look carefully there are the little public footpath signs attached to it. Platform 7 is also the right of way. If however you state this reason and then turn off on to the platforms that you're not entitled to access don't be surprised if the BTP who often guard the entrance particularly on Saturday nights want a word!

 

[duffield]

If you say you're using the footbridge as a public footpath there won't be an issue, if you look carefully there are the little public footpath signs attached to it. Platform 7 is also the right of way. If however you state this reason and then turn off on to the platforms that you're not entitled to access don't be surprised if the BTP who often guard the entrance particularly on Saturday nights want a word!

EMT staff can *ask* for a ticket but as far as I know there is no legal reason that you have to explain yourself or even acknowledge them, as long as you stick strictly to the right of way. But the presence of BTP makes it look as if you *do* have to explain yourself or possibly face being physically stopped, which seems wrong.

Anyhow, I guess this is all getting a bit off-topic for a tram related thread!

 

[LexyBoy]

Even if you went to the platforms I don't think they could do anything other than ask you to leave though as you'd not be breaking any laws. If you didn't leave after a while they could nick you under Byelaw 13 though (IANAL so I don't know long you'd need to hang around to qualify as loitering rather than nosing around or stetching your legs).

This assumed that Nottingham isn't a CTA which I believe to be correct but such information is kept secret, despite potentially making the difference between breaking the law and not.

 

[edwin_m]

Rights of a user of a public right of way, from http://www.iprow.co.uk/index.php?page=page&catId=11#4

This depends on the status of the route in question (see above), but in general terms you are allowed to pass and re-pass as a genuine traveller, and undertake closely allied activities such as stopping to rest or look at views. Wherever there is a right of way on foot there is also a right to have certain accompaniments, such as a pram or pushchair where accessible. You have no right to undertake unrelated activities such as metal-detecting or flying model aircraft.

So you could stop and admire the trains as long as you then continue in the same direction on the public right of way. But if you attempt to fly a model aircraft you are at the mercy of the BTP.

 

[CallySleeper]

Any thoughts on how NET will cope with the fair this year, specifically now that trams are pay before you board. I'm not 100% familiar with how it works (though I'll be going this year) but I can imagine if they have any sense there'll not only be a queuing system in place but also conductors selling tickets to the queuing masses if necessary. Shouldn't be too many needing tickets but I can't imagine one long queue at a ticket machine going down very well...

 

[edwin_m]

Most people will probably be buying return tickets on their outward journeys so there shouldn't be much demand for tickets at the Forest.

The relevant article on their website does have a splash reminding people to buy before boarding.

http://www.thetram.net/news/1/Goose-Fair-2014-Nottingham/

 

[duffield]

Latest news:
Line 2 (Clifton) energized along the full line length, full line testing to commence shortly:

http://railwayherald.com/uknews/testing-work-continues-on-net-line-2
http://www.thetram.net/latest-news/1/safety-campaign-extends/

I get the feeling that they are throwing everything at line 2 (to some extent at the expense of progress on line 3); I wonder if they are hoping to get just line 2 open before Xmas this year (after having put back the completion date to next year for the whole project) as a 'nice surprise'? I wonder if it's possible to do the necessary testing and training for line 2 in what would be about 2 months - or is this just not on?

 

[edwin_m]

On a quick look at the Toll Bridge a couple of weeks ago there was quite a lot to do, including a surface crack which aligned with the transition from the old piers onto the new structure. I really hope that's superficial.

 

[brianthegiant]

There is also a very up to date commentary on progress to be found in the 'NetPhase 2 pictures group www.facebook.com/groups/734173266617590/

The principal aim of this group is to share pictures of Phase 2 of NET. It is inevitable that some debate will crop up but this should be related to the pictures. If you wish to debate the pros and cons of the tram please do not use this site as a vehicle for doing that.
It is an open group and respectful visitors are welcome. Please bear in mind anyone can view the posts so please feel free to invite others to view.
However, we ask that comments or pictures from this group are not transposed on to other groups; please provide a link for people to visit here if they choose.

.
The Beeston/Toton line is making progress, track is complete all the way apart from one very short section, I would guess 70% of poles are up, 60% of landscaping is done. not much progress yet on OHLE, signals, signage, street lighting. Tamper has done University Boulevard and has recently shifted to Toton to work back towards Chilwell.

 

[duffield]

The Beeston/Toton line is making progress, track is complete all the way apart from one very short section,...

Not quite..I walked it yesterday from Beeston (church) to Station Street and the following bits of track are still missing:
Short section of both tracks near the church/old police station (Chilwell Road/Devonshire Road junction)
Short section of one track near the Humber road chip shop
Short section of one track near the Red Cow on Gregory Street (the bit that turns into Lenton Lane)
Short section of both tracks on the North East side of Clayton's Canal bridge.
I think that's a complete list for that section.

Don't know about the Toton to Beeston section, that's not on my walking route.

 

[nottinghamcity]

Don't know about the Toton to Beeston section, that's not on my walking route.

The section from Cator Lane to the tamped section is now in place, so I suspect the old police station - Toton is complete.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The local press have recently picked up on rumours that the start of passenger service will be delayed until April. Taylor-Woodrow Alston carefully dismissed this as speculation, reiterating "the first half of next year" I can see that they wouldn't want to give themselves another expectation deadline, but there is no smoke without fire! I can see that this is a realistic date - the traffic management was due to complete at the end of August, and likely now to be November, giving a 3 month delay. Since the Clifton route has been in testing and training since September, this must be nearing completion. I can still see a phased start.

 

[harry42]

If you say you're using the footbridge as a public footpath there won't be an issue, if you look carefully there are the little public footpath signs attached to it. Platform 7 is also the right of way. If however you state this reason and then turn off on to the platforms that you're not entitled to access don't be surprised if the BTP who often guard the entrance particularly on Saturday nights want a word!

There is a very prominent Public Footpath Sign from the taxi stand "Public Footpath to The Meadows" and points right into the station.

 

[brianthegiant]

I heard from an informed source that there are limited options for a reliable phased start because of the way the signalling is configured for a specific service pattern, which I believe is more to do with the control room end of the signalling system. Apparently it was tried in Manchester & caused a lot of problems. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can expand?

 

[edwin_m]

I heard from an informed source that there are limited options for a reliable phased start because of the way the signalling is configured for a specific service pattern, which I believe is more to do with the control room end of the signalling system. Apparently it was tried in Manchester & caused a lot of problems. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can expand?

I can't really see it. There were signalling-related problems in Manchester but they appear to have been due to interfacing the new system with the old one. Once these were solved routes opened one at a time and sometimes well before planned date.

The locations of crossovers may constrain a phased start if it is planned to open part of one route. There are no separate turnback tracks except at the Forest, so if the Chilwell route couldn't be opened as far as its first crossover then turning back the Chilwell trams could probably disrupt the passing Clifton trams.

 

[CallySleeper]

because of the way the signalling is configured for a specific service pattern, which I believe is more to do with the control room end of the signalling system

I'd love to hear more about this, because for now I'm absolutely not buying it. Sorry.

 

[nottinghamcity]

I'd love to hear more about this, because for now I'm absolutely not buying it. Sorry.

I think this could be absolutely down to politics - Alstom Taylor -Woodrow probably aren't keen on the complexity of commissioning a system, with part of it in service, from more than anything else convenience, but Nottingham city council are desperate to manage the negative publicity down to the initial over optimistic programme. They must be feeling frustrated seeming a largely completed tramway laying idle for several months, and must be putting pressure - financial and otherwise on the consortium.

 

[duffield]

As of yesterday (11/11/2014) evening:

All line 3 track from Chilwell Road/Devonshire Road junction in Beeston to line 2 junction now laid, pinned and welded apart from short section of one line on Middle Street near Humber road chippie, which was placed and clamped but still needed base filling underneath and welding.

Also, NG2 business park junction is now fully open for traffic from/to both directions on Queens Road, new signals operational.

Net consortium says that test trams will be running to NG2 'in the near future' (but there's quite a lot of temporary tarmac to clean out of the rail groove first!).

http://www.thetram.net/latest-news/1/ng2-junction-reopens/
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As of yesterday (19/11/2014) evening:

All line 3 track from Chilwell Road/Devonshire Road junction in Beeston to line 2 junction now laid, pinned and welded. Still a number of bits where road surface needs completing though.

However, there are rumours going around that some sections of track were laid with 'the wrong weight steel' and may need to be re-done, and possibly that the relevant sections are some/all of those where the track goes across roads (as opposed to runs along them). The rumours are very vague and this could mean a minor issue (one particular crossing) or all of them!

Anyone got any decent info on this rumour (I got it from a guy at work who heard it from a friend)?

 

[duffield]

Track laying now officially completed on line 3:
http://www.thetram.net/latest-news/1/final-trackwork-completed-beeston/

Preparation for test running to NG2** (next week I think) was going on yesterday - men with poles poking debris out of the track grove and a street cleaning vehicle following behind them.
The temporary earthing cables have been removed from NG2 and relocated further up the line on the north side of the tram bridge over the railway (i.e. where the tram line meets Lenton lane).

** For non-locals all references to 'NG2' mean 'the NG2 business park' and not the postcode prefix as such (although obviously the business park is named after the postcode prefix!).

 

[edwin_m]

Nobody seems to have posted that the opening date has slipped to middle of 2015.

 

[duffield]

Nobody seems to have posted that the opening date has slipped to middle of 2015.

Yes, I meant to mention that.

As usual it's 'weasel words' time. No definition of what they mean by 'middle'.

June-July?
May-August?
April-September?
March-October?
etc.

All of these are 'the middle of the year' in a sense...

 

[Robertj21a]

Nobody seems to have posted that the opening date has slipped to middle of 2015.

Getting quite ridiculous when it's only November at present and, to the layman (general public), it looks nearly ready. It was all going so well and now has the potential for critics to liken it to Edinburgh.

 

[CallySleeper]

Getting quite ridiculous when it's only November at present and, to the layman (general public), it looks nearly ready. It was all going so well and now has the potential for critics to liken it to Edinburgh.

I've had first-hand experience of living through the construction of both Edinburgh and NET and I'd just like to inform those who haven't also had similar displeasure, Edinburgh was a hell of a lot worse.

 

[duffield]

Getting quite ridiculous when it's only November at present and, to the layman (general public), it looks nearly ready. It was all going so well and now has the potential for critics to liken it to Edinburgh.

Edinburgh has ended up with 4km missing (or 8km if you include phase 1b) from the original line length, several years delay and a 100% cost increase (although this depends how you calculate it) to the taxpayer.

Nottingham will get the full line length, max one year's delay and no extra cost to the taxpayer (I believe the contractors will actually be paying compensation for the overrun from mid-December this year).
Sounds positively brilliant by comparison!

Of course I'm sure you're right that regardless of this, it will be compared to Edinburgh.

Also, I think it's possible the contractors may be being extra pessimistic now so they won't have to announce any further delays and will maybe be able to open the system a bit earlier than they are currently saying...after all, they're not at all far from being able to run test trams on the full length of both lines.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
First tram run to NG2 business park (includes photo):
http://www.thetram.net/latest-news/1/ng2-testing/

 

[mainframe444]

Getting quite ridiculous when it's only November at present and, to the layman (general public), it looks nearly ready. It was all going so well and now has the potential for critics to liken it to Edinburgh.

Remember that its not just a question of building the tramway......

The systems will all have to be tested and proved, drivers trained up on the new routes (and the control room learn how to manage disruptions on the new sections) , and then a shadow service operated, before it is all signed off by HMRI to allow the public to be carried.

This all takes time.....

MF

 

[bunnahabhain]

If anybody cares to dig out the original estimates for building the route during the tendering process you'll realise its ahead of schedule, Taylor Woodrow said they could build it in two years fewer than the tender...turns out they couldn't!

 

[Robertj21a]

If anybody cares to dig out the original estimates for building the route during the tendering process you'll realise its ahead of schedule, Taylor Woodrow said they could build it in two years fewer than the tender...turns out they couldn't!

Trouble is that the general public don't realise that. All they know/believe is that it is 'taking a long time' - 'causing a lot of disruption' - 'going to be about a year late'.

Crazy to go public with earlier dates if they couldn't be fairly definite, you just raise expectations that you can't then achieve.

 

[brianthegiant]

However, there are rumours going around that some sections of track were laid with 'the wrong weight steel' and may need to be re-done, and possibly that the relevant sections are some/all of those where the track goes across roads (as opposed to runs along them). The rumours are very vague and this could mean a minor issue (one particular crossing) or all of them!

There are rumours circulating that the tracks were laid upside down, that the track gauge is set wrong, etc, etc.
It's unclear where the rumours come from, probably idle speculation mostly, but the anti tram crowd tend to pick up on them and propagate them widely.

Also, I think it's possible the contractors may be being extra pessimistic now so they won't have to announce any further delays and will maybe be able to open the system a bit earlier than they are currently saying...after all, they're not at all far from being able to run test trams on the full length of both lines.

lot of OHLE to be done & not much signalling evident in the Beeston area yet? But yes the civils side is nearly there.

 

[edwin_m]

They are claiming the final track has been laid on the Beeston line. I don't think they'd say that if they expected to have to dig up and replace any, otherwise they'd end up looking pretty stupid.

http://www.thetram.net/latest-news/1/final-trackwork-completed-beeston/

 

[duffield]

Report for yesterday, 09/12/2014
Good: Further road surfacing progressing/completed at several points between Beeston Tram stop and NG2.

The conductor wires between NG2 and University boulevard just need a few final fixings around the Gregory Street/Lenton lane bit and this section will be ready to have the juice turned on.

Some missing masts erected on Lower Road (there is one mast on Lower Road without a 'twin' on the other side now, but as there is not the slightest indication that there will be a matching one on the other side I guess this one is going to use a cantilever, unlike the rest on that section).
I think all masts are now in place on this section, most of the supporting cross-wiring is in place so I'm guessing the conductor wires will be going up from the end of University Boulevard to Beeston tram stop in the next couple of weeks.

Bad: Just past Beeston tram stop towards Chilwell, very close to the Wetherspoons/Church, they were breaking up and digging out a section of concrete between the tracks on the outbound line. This section was previous properly laid and finished, so it looks like something is wrong here...

 

[nottinghamcity]

Report for yesterday, 09/12/2014

Bad: Just past Beeston tram stop towards Chilwell, very close to the Wetherspoons/Church, they were breaking up and digging out a section of concrete between the tracks on the outbound line. This section was previous properly laid and finished, so it looks like something is wrong here...

I had a walk along the route between castle college and Beeston yesterday. I note that Chilwell high road is open one way outbound, and two way as far as the hop pole. As far as the works at styring street goes, they are just removing the temporary pedestrian route which was placed between the tracks whilst both pavements were closed. It is likely that the final surfacing will be taking place here soon.