Jordy
Established Member
No, London Bridge uses the Atos system with Anne (aka Sarah) and someone referred to as "Mike" - I believe he works/worked in the ticket office at London Bridge.
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
New First Capital Connect Announcements
- Thread starter alexdodds
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
OMG! Hatfield announced a train today, on the right platform and a train that actually existed and was on time! Okay, so it was whispered and nobody probably heard it, but I did. As said above, the announcement finished just before the train pulled in (maybe 10 seconds)
And, they've also put a message on the summary departure board screen to say when trains will stop at the far end of platform 3 (namely 3 or 4 car services, not sure if they'll do that for 6-car too?). I wonder if that shows on the actual platform though, and how it is shown. If it's only a small note that scrolls by quickly, it may be missed. I thought FCC had stated they were going to create two zones (3a, 3b) there and use one screen for each (they installed one further along last year). This method sounds like a bodge, but may be temporary so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for no
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Update: Friday 29 Oct, They've changed 'Kings X' back to 'Kings Cross' now, and it's now on at Finsbury Park - where the announcements are MUCH louder. In fact, it actually sounds quite good when you can hear it.
But, it's announcing all trains on platforms 5/6 - so they were all told when my train came in on platform 1!
Not only that, there's still the delay that meant it was warning people to stand clear of platform 3 as the train had already gone through.
And, they've also put a message on the summary departure board screen to say when trains will stop at the far end of platform 3 (namely 3 or 4 car services, not sure if they'll do that for 6-car too?). I wonder if that shows on the actual platform though, and how it is shown. If it's only a small note that scrolls by quickly, it may be missed. I thought FCC had stated they were going to create two zones (3a, 3b) there and use one screen for each (they installed one further along last year). This method sounds like a bodge, but may be temporary so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for no
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Update: Friday 29 Oct, They've changed 'Kings X' back to 'Kings Cross' now, and it's now on at Finsbury Park - where the announcements are MUCH louder. In fact, it actually sounds quite good when you can hear it.
But, it's announcing all trains on platforms 5/6 - so they were all told when my train came in on platform 1!
Not only that, there's still the delay that meant it was warning people to stand clear of platform 3 as the train had already gone through.
Last edited:
londonmidland
Established Member
Found a good video of the new announcements being made at Stevenage, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqZboOdTTRY
Although the not stopping train announcement is different to what I expected. On the WCML they have "Stand well back from the platform edge, the next train at platform ... does not stop here.
Although the not stopping train announcement is different to what I expected. On the WCML they have "Stand well back from the platform edge, the next train at platform ... does not stop here.
"The train now approaching. Platform 3. Does not stop here. Does not stop here. Platform 3"
What sort of announcement is that?! As given at Finsbury Park this morning!
I asked a dispatcher what was happening and was told that the system isn't finished yet and it will take a few weeks. He confirmed that there will only be one announcement for each train, and hoped the announcements would be per platform as before (i.e. platform 5/6 trains aren't announced on platform 1/2 etc).
I did see that the television screen was showing reasons for delays, and they were clearly manually typed in as the wording varied on many trains (all along the lines of slippery rail/poor rail conditions). The smaller platform screens didn't show anything (nor do they now show how many carriages a train will have). I also noticed that Highbury & Islington has been renamed 'Highbury'.
This system of announcing things once is silly. My connecting train was 12 minutes late, and the ones behind were late too. So, once it announced the next train - it then shut up and started to announce delays to later trains.
If only listening to announcements (as some people might have to do), you'd be under the impression that the earlier trains have gone on time. No wonder people can then get on the wrong train as the earlier train then pulls in around the same time.
What sort of announcement is that?! As given at Finsbury Park this morning!
I asked a dispatcher what was happening and was told that the system isn't finished yet and it will take a few weeks. He confirmed that there will only be one announcement for each train, and hoped the announcements would be per platform as before (i.e. platform 5/6 trains aren't announced on platform 1/2 etc).
I did see that the television screen was showing reasons for delays, and they were clearly manually typed in as the wording varied on many trains (all along the lines of slippery rail/poor rail conditions). The smaller platform screens didn't show anything (nor do they now show how many carriages a train will have). I also noticed that Highbury & Islington has been renamed 'Highbury'.
This system of announcing things once is silly. My connecting train was 12 minutes late, and the ones behind were late too. So, once it announced the next train - it then shut up and started to announce delays to later trains.
If only listening to announcements (as some people might have to do), you'd be under the impression that the earlier trains have gone on time. No wonder people can then get on the wrong train as the earlier train then pulls in around the same time.
Letchworth Garden City now has the new system running. 
This morning it was announcing as I arrived at the station that the 05:59 was delayed by 104 minutes. This announcement was then repeated every 2 minutes, with the delay increased by 2 minutes each time....
The screens were correctly saying that everything was on time.
Yesterday the announcement said that the 07:09 service had 4 coaches. the screens said it was 8 coaches which again was correct.
Another good one - there is a manually recorded message (with lots of interference) played at frequent intervals telling you to stand behind the yellow line - the platforms at Letchworth don't have yellow lines!
I have also noticed that trains starting at Letchworth that come out of the sidings are not announced at all. I think this also still applies to the moorgate services starting at WGC as I haven't heard any announcements for these services whilst on the platform at WGC since the changeover to the new system.
This morning it was announcing as I arrived at the station that the 05:59 was delayed by 104 minutes. This announcement was then repeated every 2 minutes, with the delay increased by 2 minutes each time....
The screens were correctly saying that everything was on time.
Yesterday the announcement said that the 07:09 service had 4 coaches. the screens said it was 8 coaches which again was correct.
Another good one - there is a manually recorded message (with lots of interference) played at frequent intervals telling you to stand behind the yellow line - the platforms at Letchworth don't have yellow lines!
I have also noticed that trains starting at Letchworth that come out of the sidings are not announced at all. I think this also still applies to the moorgate services starting at WGC as I haven't heard any announcements for these services whilst on the platform at WGC since the changeover to the new system.
The one about standing behind the yellow line and taking care when boarding the train (and it says 'the train' as if there's actually a train there to board!) is quite a lot louder and is indeed corrupted slightly.
It does seem that the audio system is run separately to the screens, which are mostly working as intended. I do wish they'd work on having a bigger warning to stand clear though, rather than tiny text (not even bold).
Actually, I wish they'd set the screens to show a warning on the bottom section when a train is coming through that isn't stopping (and flashing), while keeping information at the top on the next train - as many stations along the GN route have one screen for two platforms. As many fast trains will come through on the ECML, the current system means that all information about the train at the other platform disappears.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So yesterday I mentioned that Highbury & Islington was now just called 'Highbury'. Well, it seems that the people responsible for getting the new FCC system working have fixed that.
It's now Highbury & Islgton (I doubt there's a character limit).
Oh, and they've managed to change Moorgate to London Kings Cross.
This morning all Moorgate trains are showing as King's Cross (yes, it has caused massive confusion), with the screens showing a stopping pattern of Finsbury Park, Drayton Park, Highbury & Islgton, Essex Rd (best not spell Road in full), Old Street and London Kings Cross.
The audio announcements were saying the same way, and I loved it at Finsbury Park when someone at the station was letting it announce everything and then interrupting it after Old Street! Wish I'd recorded that, as it was only slightly worse than the official recordings that jump up and down in pitch!
It does seem that the audio system is run separately to the screens, which are mostly working as intended. I do wish they'd work on having a bigger warning to stand clear though, rather than tiny text (not even bold).
Actually, I wish they'd set the screens to show a warning on the bottom section when a train is coming through that isn't stopping (and flashing), while keeping information at the top on the next train - as many stations along the GN route have one screen for two platforms. As many fast trains will come through on the ECML, the current system means that all information about the train at the other platform disappears.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So yesterday I mentioned that Highbury & Islington was now just called 'Highbury'. Well, it seems that the people responsible for getting the new FCC system working have fixed that.
It's now Highbury & Islgton (I doubt there's a character limit).
Oh, and they've managed to change Moorgate to London Kings Cross.
This morning all Moorgate trains are showing as King's Cross (yes, it has caused massive confusion), with the screens showing a stopping pattern of Finsbury Park, Drayton Park, Highbury & Islgton, Essex Rd (best not spell Road in full), Old Street and London Kings Cross.
The audio announcements were saying the same way, and I loved it at Finsbury Park when someone at the station was letting it announce everything and then interrupting it after Old Street! Wish I'd recorded that, as it was only slightly worse than the official recordings that jump up and down in pitch!
Last edited:
The 7:09 at Letchworth GC (Kings Cross only service) was announced as 4 coaches again today - lots of people waiting at the far end of the the platform where the rear unit stops when it is 8 coaches (& there are no screens down there) ran back along the platform.
When the train pulled in & they could it was actually 8 coaches most of them then ran back again to where they were standing originally.
When the train pulled in & they could it was actually 8 coaches most of them then ran back again to where they were standing originally.
Here's the announcement (from 1 minute in; sorry can't edit amr files from work)
View attachment FCC-5Nov2010-0802toMOGasKGX.amr.zip
And a video showing it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Pl-Z8OKLS8
Note how there's no description of why the top service is cancelled, and there's no longer any mention of how many cars there are per service. Also, it still does the annoying reset part way through, meaning that long stopping patterns or messages are often lost - and you have to wait one or even two more times to see the full message.
Perhaps given the fact that FCC must have been aware, the section at the bottom saying 'Special Notices' could have been used to say 'We're experiencing problems - please speak to a member of staff' at the very least?
When will this farce end?
View attachment FCC-5Nov2010-0802toMOGasKGX.amr.zip
And a video showing it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Pl-Z8OKLS8
Note how there's no description of why the top service is cancelled, and there's no longer any mention of how many cars there are per service. Also, it still does the annoying reset part way through, meaning that long stopping patterns or messages are often lost - and you have to wait one or even two more times to see the full message.
Perhaps given the fact that FCC must have been aware, the section at the bottom saying 'Special Notices' could have been used to say 'We're experiencing problems - please speak to a member of staff' at the very least?
When will this farce end?
Right, thanks to the new system I got home nice and late tonight.
Left work late to go to Old Street. Checked phone (National Rail), 1914 train - on time. Went downstairs to platform at 1910, saw sign showing 1914 Welwyn Garden City, along with stopping pattern, and it being 6-cars... along with a message below about fireworks cancelled at Ally Pally the next night. So, Old Street now has the new system - great. I walk down the far end, as usual. There are no announcements to say when the train is actually coming in. So, just like most other stations, then.
But at 1914 the train arrives. Not really paying too much attention, get on. Sit down. Job done. A normal commute home. Playing with my phone, I don't even twig that at Alexandra Palace, I'm on platform 4. There's a train 'stuck' on platform 3 - and the driver even gets out to ask if she's broken down. Can't hear full conversation, but silly me hasn't yet realised.
We pull away, and I realise that on platform 3 is a WGC train! Now we're going over the bridge - I'm off to bloody Hertford North!
I get off at Bowes Park immediately. Ask driver why he isn't the 1914 to WGC. He asks where I got on, and he said he was the delayed 1902 to Hertford North (having checked since, indeed he was - and it did call at Old Street at exactly 1914!). I said what the screen said and he told me the system can't accept changes at the moment.. and was incredibly apologetic - saying I should write in and complain.
I then let him go as I didn't want to hold him up, and waited for a train back to Alexandra Palace to 'try again'. Both screens were showing the National Rail number and 'PLEASE STAND CLEAR'. No announcements, so back to the old fashioned way of looking at a printed timetable.
Train arrives 5 minutes late, but it's okay as my next train would turn out to be delayed too. Giving me time to see 'PLEASE STAND CLEAR' written on every sign at the station - and a near continuous stream of announcements to say that trains on every platform weren't stopping... even a train on platform 1 that did stop and let people on and off! I swear I even heard one saying to stand clear of platform 5 - and there are only 4 platforms. I don't know for sure because the volume was so low.
Eight minutes late, my train arrives and I finally get home 30-40 minutes late. It went the right way, but boy do you have to hope the sign on the front of the train is right! Way to go FCC, you've taken things to back when there were no screens or speakers on platforms - while having nonsensical information to just wind up and confuse people. I wonder if the screens were turned off because all trains to Moorgate were renamed Kings Cross?
Can this get any worse?? Still, on the plus side, they've managed to get special notices working!
Left work late to go to Old Street. Checked phone (National Rail), 1914 train - on time. Went downstairs to platform at 1910, saw sign showing 1914 Welwyn Garden City, along with stopping pattern, and it being 6-cars... along with a message below about fireworks cancelled at Ally Pally the next night. So, Old Street now has the new system - great. I walk down the far end, as usual. There are no announcements to say when the train is actually coming in. So, just like most other stations, then.
But at 1914 the train arrives. Not really paying too much attention, get on. Sit down. Job done. A normal commute home. Playing with my phone, I don't even twig that at Alexandra Palace, I'm on platform 4. There's a train 'stuck' on platform 3 - and the driver even gets out to ask if she's broken down. Can't hear full conversation, but silly me hasn't yet realised.
We pull away, and I realise that on platform 3 is a WGC train! Now we're going over the bridge - I'm off to bloody Hertford North!
I get off at Bowes Park immediately. Ask driver why he isn't the 1914 to WGC. He asks where I got on, and he said he was the delayed 1902 to Hertford North (having checked since, indeed he was - and it did call at Old Street at exactly 1914!). I said what the screen said and he told me the system can't accept changes at the moment.. and was incredibly apologetic - saying I should write in and complain.
I then let him go as I didn't want to hold him up, and waited for a train back to Alexandra Palace to 'try again'. Both screens were showing the National Rail number and 'PLEASE STAND CLEAR'. No announcements, so back to the old fashioned way of looking at a printed timetable.
Train arrives 5 minutes late, but it's okay as my next train would turn out to be delayed too. Giving me time to see 'PLEASE STAND CLEAR' written on every sign at the station - and a near continuous stream of announcements to say that trains on every platform weren't stopping... even a train on platform 1 that did stop and let people on and off! I swear I even heard one saying to stand clear of platform 5 - and there are only 4 platforms. I don't know for sure because the volume was so low.
Eight minutes late, my train arrives and I finally get home 30-40 minutes late. It went the right way, but boy do you have to hope the sign on the front of the train is right! Way to go FCC, you've taken things to back when there were no screens or speakers on platforms - while having nonsensical information to just wind up and confuse people. I wonder if the screens were turned off because all trains to Moorgate were renamed Kings Cross?
Can this get any worse?? Still, on the plus side, they've managed to get special notices working!
It simply cannot display information about disruptions or delays. Well, it can show when something is delayed, but not handle things like another train arriving ahead of the one showed. Or, in the case tonight, it must have assumed the 1902 had gone and was showing the arriving train as something else. Sods law meant that the earlier train was delayed by just the right time to make it arrive at the time of the other service!
These aren't just schoolboy errors, this is negligence. For two weeks or so, people are getting the wrong trains and - in some cases - risking penalty fares in the process of going the wrong way.
Technically, I could have stayed on and got a lift from Cuffley or Hertford North, but what if I met an RPI that would not know/care about the problems and would say I had no valid ticket - bang, £20 or more.
How many people have had PFs in the last two weeks because they got the wrong train, especially around the morning peak/off-peak switchover? Or, like me, went the wrong way and had to come back and incur a delay and inconvenience.
I think that this FCC stuff could warrant its own thread if a moderator cares for it? I am sure this is going to drag on for quite a bit and could be quite boring to some people.
These aren't just schoolboy errors, this is negligence. For two weeks or so, people are getting the wrong trains and - in some cases - risking penalty fares in the process of going the wrong way.
Technically, I could have stayed on and got a lift from Cuffley or Hertford North, but what if I met an RPI that would not know/care about the problems and would say I had no valid ticket - bang, £20 or more.
How many people have had PFs in the last two weeks because they got the wrong train, especially around the morning peak/off-peak switchover? Or, like me, went the wrong way and had to come back and incur a delay and inconvenience.
I think that this FCC stuff could warrant its own thread if a moderator cares for it? I am sure this is going to drag on for quite a bit and could be quite boring to some people.
Jordy
Established Member
Good idea - done 
12CSVT
Established Member
- Joined
- 18 Aug 2010
- Messages
- 2,612
At Blackfriars it is very much a lottery whether some trains are announced or not. If ATOS just happens to decide to go through a long list of generic announcements at the same time asa train is approaching (ie stand behind the yellow line, engineering works this weekend, smoking is not permitted at this station etc, etc) it is likely the train won't be announced. If this happened under funkwerk the train would have been announced after it had left.
At Stevenage yesterday, all trains seemed to be duplicated - the 2nd train showing on the screens was the same service as the one above.
In some cases, it somehow managed to show one of these as running on time and the other entry was saying the same service was 3 minutes late!
The northbound service was showing a running 3 minutes late at platform 4 - the train then arrived on time at Platform 3 at the same time as the screens updated to show the change in platform so the new system is a bit slow to recognise this.
the "Stand Clear" message on the screens isn't very clear - the text isn't big enough. before the system changed, these messages also flashed on the screen which drew your attention to it.
In some cases, it somehow managed to show one of these as running on time and the other entry was saying the same service was 3 minutes late!
The northbound service was showing a running 3 minutes late at platform 4 - the train then arrived on time at Platform 3 at the same time as the screens updated to show the change in platform so the new system is a bit slow to recognise this.
the "Stand Clear" message on the screens isn't very clear - the text isn't big enough. before the system changed, these messages also flashed on the screen which drew your attention to it.
The Stand clear message is awful, and on Friday it was on all the screens (well, at least all that I looked at) as if that's now the default for when there's no information.
I'd LOVE to see the configuration options for this software as it seems like nobody has a clue how to set it up properly.
But, should we be surprised when there's such a mix of equipment/screens in use and presumably the need for software/hardware to interface them.
Part of me thinks it would have been just as good to install screens that get information from the web (or National Rail's API to be more precise) as it would have been as good, probably better.
Update: 8 November 2010: Another day of random train diagrams. How about this one?
A train to Essex Road, calling at Finsbury Park, London Kings Cross and Essex Road? Due at 0839, despite it being 0929!
(Sorry about poor quality, but the refresh rate of the LEDs doesn't get on with the camera on my phone!)
I'd LOVE to see the configuration options for this software as it seems like nobody has a clue how to set it up properly.
But, should we be surprised when there's such a mix of equipment/screens in use and presumably the need for software/hardware to interface them.
Part of me thinks it would have been just as good to install screens that get information from the web (or National Rail's API to be more precise) as it would have been as good, probably better.
Update: 8 November 2010: Another day of random train diagrams. How about this one?
A train to Essex Road, calling at Finsbury Park, London Kings Cross and Essex Road? Due at 0839, despite it being 0929!
(Sorry about poor quality, but the refresh rate of the LEDs doesn't get on with the camera on my phone!)
Last edited:
This morning a lot of services were running late due to poor rail conditions.
The departures summary screen in the booking hall at Letchworth correctly said that the 07:01 service was running 10 minutes late. (the train was in the platform as I got there) The VDUs on the platform said "On time"
The train left & the screens changed to show the next service. about a minute later there was an announcement apologising for the late running of the train that had already left! There is sometimes a timelag in the screens changing at Letchworth due to the signal bing someway from the platform, but today the screen changed fairly proptly.
At Potters Bar this morning there was an almost constant stream of announcments apologising for various services being delayed. So PBR has changed over since Friday as Phil was still doing the announcements there on Friday morning.
At WGC on Friday : the Kings cross service starting from Platform 3 was delayed by a couple of minutes awaiting an incoming terminating service going in to platform 4 before the signal could clear. On departure time, the screens changed over to say Cambridge for the next northbound service due in 3 minutes. Surely it should still say Kings Cross until the train actually leaves as this could be highly misleading for someone runing down the stairs & gets on the train to find it leaving in the wrong direction!
The departures summary screen in the booking hall at Letchworth correctly said that the 07:01 service was running 10 minutes late. (the train was in the platform as I got there) The VDUs on the platform said "On time"
The train left & the screens changed to show the next service. about a minute later there was an announcement apologising for the late running of the train that had already left! There is sometimes a timelag in the screens changing at Letchworth due to the signal bing someway from the platform, but today the screen changed fairly proptly.
At Potters Bar this morning there was an almost constant stream of announcments apologising for various services being delayed. So PBR has changed over since Friday as Phil was still doing the announcements there on Friday morning.
At WGC on Friday : the Kings cross service starting from Platform 3 was delayed by a couple of minutes awaiting an incoming terminating service going in to platform 4 before the signal could clear. On departure time, the screens changed over to say Cambridge for the next northbound service due in 3 minutes. Surely it should still say Kings Cross until the train actually leaves as this could be highly misleading for someone runing down the stairs & gets on the train to find it leaving in the wrong direction!
Geezertronic
Established Member
Sorry if it's already been mentioned but Phil wasn't doing the announcments at St Pancras Platforms A & B last time I went, it's now the lady voice (who does Euston etc...)
Interesting. Potters Bar changed a while back, so if you were hearing Phil on Friday, perhaps they've actually switched some stations back temporarily.
Today the system seemed to be working fairly well, with delayed trains at Finsbury Park showing up correctly, as well as platform alterations when many services for platform 1 changed to 2. No silly train services created with a random (station) generator either!
At Hatfield, there's one odd thing that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Because trains stop far down on platform 3, FCC installed a second screen. However, the new system now says nothing about trains stopping further down on the one by the stairs, but constantly says that trains stop at the far end of platform 3 on the distant one. By the time you're down there, you don't need to know (or already knew!).
dan_atki
Established Member
- Joined
- 1 Nov 2006
- Messages
- 1,879
It's been like that for just over a month now. It was fine at its introduction but now some of the GN problems are starting to surface here as well. Sometimes it will randomly decide not to announce a train and announce a delay of 15 minutes for a train sitting in the platform on time...
Phil is still there, however, doing the special announcements (which is some respite, but only at STP). However, Sarah seems to be doing more every time I'm there.
Going by the number of rants on Twitter, I do think that people are moaning that FCC has been constantly running trains late is possibly down to the screens saying trains are late when they're on time.
Okay, many trains have been delayed due to the weather over the last seven days, but these moans have been getting bigger since the switch-on of the new system on the GN side, and possibly the TL side (I don't know which stations there have swapped over).
Another own-goal by FCC.
Okay, many trains have been delayed due to the weather over the last seven days, but these moans have been getting bigger since the switch-on of the new system on the GN side, and possibly the TL side (I don't know which stations there have swapped over).
Another own-goal by FCC.
This morning I noticed that the fast service to Kings Cross had already disappeared from the departure summary screen at Letchworth before the train had actually pulled in. (it was about 20 seconds after scheduled departure time). it was still showing on the VDUs on the platform though.
A couple of people got on to the stopping service I was on at Stevenage thinking it was a fast train so were a bit put out when we stopped at WGC, as they said the screens at SVG said the next stop was Finsbury Park - presumably showing the train behind us we were running a few minutes late.
A couple of people got on to the stopping service I was on at Stevenage thinking it was a fast train so were a bit put out when we stopped at WGC, as they said the screens at SVG said the next stop was Finsbury Park - presumably showing the train behind us we were running a few minutes late.
Finsbury Park was apologising for a 4 minute delay on a later Moorgate service, instead of actually announcing the Moorgate service ON platform 1! I'm pretty sure it doesn't announce platform changes either.
Surely there's little point in apologising for a delayed train when an identical service is ahead of it - given that there are few reasons for people to wait for the next one (bar the train being packed).
It does seem that the system wants to announce delays over anything else, and then queues them up - at the expense of everything else.
And the platform screens still can't show useful information like how many carriages there are, or reasons for delays. I thought the whole point of this system was that it could give explanations, but I'm yet to hear any - besides some manually entered ones on the summary of departure screens in text-only form (but the summary screens are often away from the platforms).
Surely there's little point in apologising for a delayed train when an identical service is ahead of it - given that there are few reasons for people to wait for the next one (bar the train being packed).
It does seem that the system wants to announce delays over anything else, and then queues them up - at the expense of everything else.
And the platform screens still can't show useful information like how many carriages there are, or reasons for delays. I thought the whole point of this system was that it could give explanations, but I'm yet to hear any - besides some manually entered ones on the summary of departure screens in text-only form (but the summary screens are often away from the platforms).
The new system does announce platform changes... once. A lot of people don't hear it and then miss the train. It used to be so much better. I'm told, though, that this new system is 'going to be very simple for the staff who operate the CIS system, once it's up and running.' I'm not so confident that it'll be easier for passengers and front-line staff though.
I am seeing NO evidence that this system is better, even if it might be easier to programme by whoever is going to be in charge of it. With all the recent delays, mostly caused to slippery rails, the screens and announcers have been totally silent.
However, worse still, many services are regularly showing as being late but turn up on time. This is what caused me to take a train to Hertford North instead of WGC last week, and will get people on services to King's Cross instead of Moorgate (And vice versa). Yes, I know nothing but a 313 can go to Moorgate, but - funnily enough - most people don't.
How many weeks/months/years must passengers miss trains, go to the wrong destination, get a penalty fare for being on the wrong service (wrong stopping pattern, or a peak train and not an off-peak one etc) and generally get seriously p****d off, before this amazing system is enabled that makes everyone, erm, get the information they were quite happily getting beforehand?
The old system on GN gave reasons (and good explanations that pretty much told passengers what was going on), backed up by additional information on the displays and via audio from a central point. Why didn't TL switch to the GN system to standardise things, and pay to upgrade to the latest version with any new tweaks?
However, worse still, many services are regularly showing as being late but turn up on time. This is what caused me to take a train to Hertford North instead of WGC last week, and will get people on services to King's Cross instead of Moorgate (And vice versa). Yes, I know nothing but a 313 can go to Moorgate, but - funnily enough - most people don't.
How many weeks/months/years must passengers miss trains, go to the wrong destination, get a penalty fare for being on the wrong service (wrong stopping pattern, or a peak train and not an off-peak one etc) and generally get seriously p****d off, before this amazing system is enabled that makes everyone, erm, get the information they were quite happily getting beforehand?
The old system on GN gave reasons (and good explanations that pretty much told passengers what was going on), backed up by additional information on the displays and via audio from a central point. Why didn't TL switch to the GN system to standardise things, and pay to upgrade to the latest version with any new tweaks?
dan_atki
Established Member
- Joined
- 1 Nov 2006
- Messages
- 1,879
As I said earlier, it is the key justification in any business: cost.
The much better Ditra system you had on the GN side prior to the switchover was more expensive than this ATOS system. The adage has been demonstrated - 'you get what you pay for'!
I, on the other hand, am still trying to work out whether or not this is an improvement on the Funkwerk system it replaced on the TL side. At least operators are now back in announcements, after they were removed 20 odd months ago at the expense of what I'd call a 'common' voice, replacing Phil's overpronounced tones.
How much does the system used by London Underground at King's Cross cost? That uses text-to-speech, which means that when you can easily create bespoke messages on the screens, you can also announce them (a good way to ensure you're providing information for visually impaired people).
I heard it again today and I'm sure they've upgraded/tweaked it because if they haven't, they've reverted to sampling entire phrases; that's how natural it now sounds.
Frankly, if a computer voice (albeit based on a real person speaking certain key bits of words) can be this good, then any system that relies on pre-recorded phrases, with the need to keep updating them, is obsolete and a silly thing to be buying as a brand-new system.
dan_atki
Established Member
- Joined
- 1 Nov 2006
- Messages
- 1,879
Probably not very much, considering when the TTS was first used to make announcements it used 'Microsoft Sam'...
It's getting better! There are still random pauses where there shouldn't be, and when passing through myself this afternoon she was saying the Bakerloo line was suspended between Queen's Park and Harrow and Wealdstun [sic]. Not a major thing, but such differences (it should be pronounced 'stone') should be accounted for.
The lady who does the delays on the Underground ('Ladies and Gentlemen, because of necessary engineering works, there are currently delays to services in both directions on the Victoria Line.') seems to be getting more sophisticated too - I've been hearing some strange things this week, including waiting in the booking hall due to congested platforms!
The idea, especially in the case of Ditra where they hire professional voice overs, is to make the announcements produced by the software sound as realistic as possible and not all over the place. Another good example of this is the LU woman I mentioned above - she is very 'seemless' with her announcements.
With TTS (according to Navteq, the satnav mapping company) you can have a name which has an attached file that says how to pronounce it - eliminating problems for station names and regular announcements.
Yes, it does mean adhoc announcements could sound wrong, but it's better than no announcement because the other systems allow text-only.
The male voice used at King's Cross was also the same as the male voice on Nokia Symbian phones, by the way. I can't remember the company that does it - but I presume they're using the same system but with a different voice. That's another advantage, in that you can easily switch voices without having to change software.
Yes, it does mean adhoc announcements could sound wrong, but it's better than no announcement because the other systems allow text-only.
The male voice used at King's Cross was also the same as the male voice on Nokia Symbian phones, by the way. I can't remember the company that does it - but I presume they're using the same system but with a different voice. That's another advantage, in that you can easily switch voices without having to change software.
A reason for delay (Poor rail conditions) was inserted into the announcement I heard at WGC this evening, which was also showing on the departure summary screen.
No announcements while I was waiting at Potters Bar this evening so very peaceful!
No announcements while I was waiting at Potters Bar this evening so very peaceful!
- Status