New Go-op train service between Swindon, Taunton and Weston-super-Mare approved by ORR

[ian1944]

From the Go-op website, re. electric services without OHE:

It requires not only advanced battery technology on the train itself, but also lineside batteries to support rapid recharging.

Are the lineside batteries for exchange, which is hardly recharging, or superbatteries which can indeed charge the installed ones?

 

[Deepgreen]

If it happens, it's just another fragmented element for the railway - complications to fares, stock use, branding recognition, signage, etc. Doesn't help towards de-privatising, I'm sure.

From the Go-op website, re. electric services without OHE:

It requires not only advanced battery technology on the train itself, but also lineside batteries to support rapid recharging.

Are the lineside batteries for exchange, which is hardly recharging, or superbatteries which can indeed charge the installed ones?

Lineside batteries - surely lineside mains supply to recharge on-board batteries? As you say, if it's just swapping batteries, that's not recharging.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

From the Go-op website, re. electric services without OHE:

It requires not only advanced battery technology on the train itself, but also lineside batteries to support rapid recharging.

Are the lineside batteries for exchange, which is hardly recharging, or superbatteries which can indeed charge the installed ones?

I would imagine they'd be similar to the ones GWR are testing with the Class 230.

 

[DaventryRabbit]

The artists impression on their website looks like a 321 rebuilt with corridor connections....

 

[superalbs]

The artists impression on their website looks like a 321 rebuilt with corridor connections....

That's a CSR Pacesetter diesel unit!

 

[swt_passenger]

Lineside batteries - surely lineside mains supply to recharge on-board batteries? As you say, if it's just swapping batteries, that's not recharging.

The Greenford 230 trial uses a mains fed, (trickle charged, or continually recharging), shoreside battery bank at West Ealing, that enables a relatively fast charge into the train battery when connected during a station call. It means the mains supply is not subject to short duration heavy loads, but it’s smoothed out all day.

 

[zwk500]

Lineside batteries - surely lineside mains supply to recharge on-board batteries? As you say, if it's just swapping batteries, that's not recharging.

It sounds like the plan would be to have a linseide storage unit that is slowly charged from the mains (potentially even the normal domestic supply), that then dumps the power into the unit via fast charge when it needs to. This would protect the mains supply from both any faults that might occur during the charging and from a sudden large power demand.

Exchanging batteries outside of a depot is unlikely, I'd have thought, as it's an element of operational complexity you don't really want or need.

 

[6Gman]

Does anyone really believe that a service between a list of relatively small places can cover its costs?

 

[brad465]

It's certainly an odd but potentially useful route which doesn't have a core freqeuncy (although parts of it all do separately) but I also don't think there will be loads of demand. As stated above, there's still quite a few caveats before this comes into service.

Go-Op could do with a big promotional campaign in the local areas to help get it going. If they do get 153s the service won't have to exceed expectations much to be overcrowded.

Melksham is also a key diversionary route for WoE when anything happens on the B&H, so could cause more delay on what already extends the journey time by about 20-30 mins.

Given how significant that diversionary route is you'd have thought they'd at least have added a passing loop on it by now, both to increase capacity and avoid blocking a mainline waiting for a path on it, but that's another story.

 

[slipdigby]

I doubt we'll ever hear about this again.

Absolutely. Who are the mugs who are planning on throwing their good money away subsidising something with a farebox recovery ratio, at best, close to 50%

 

[Russel]

Does the ORR charge for reviewing these applications?

It seems we get a lot of these open access "operators" coming up with grand plans but never actually get as far as operating a train!

 

[jamieh27]

What are they going to use? Suitable DMUs are at a premium, depending on what happens to the 175s and if any are still spare.

I dont think there will be spares for Go-op to run they will all go to GWR which they do need because of cost with Castle sets.

 

[Bishopstone]

Does the ORR charge for reviewing these applications?

It seems we get a lot of these open access "operators" coming up with grand plans but never actually get as far as operating a train!

Maybe they should charge (or charge more.)

But I propose the charge is waived if the ORR haven’t determined the application within 100 days.

 

[swt_passenger]

Does anyone really believe that a service between a list of relatively small places can cover its costs?

The oldest discussions about Go-Op the forum search finds date from about 2011, (but I think they had a different name before that), and they’ve always been starting up “in the next couple of years”. They’ve had so many proposed services patterns I’d have thought ORR would have stopped replying to their correspondence years ago.

 

[Russel]

Maybe they should charge (or charge more.)

But I propose the charge is waived if the ORR haven’t determined the application within 100 days.

It could reduce the amount of these fantasy operations...

 

[Halsebee]

Goodness me, I am surprised at the overall negative tone of this thread to this news.
A lot of work has gone into this, and it is an innovative proposal aimed at improving connectivity and train services in an area relatively poorly served. Go op is a cooperative, not a commercial organisation driven by shareholder profits.
Given the state of many of the current operators and services, I would have thought that forum members would be celebrating the success a new operator trying to improve the railway and gaining track access from ORR, rather than criticising. Perhaps some offers of support in making it happen would be more constructive?

 

[AlastairFraser]

Goodness me, I am surprised at the overall negative tone of this thread to this news.
A lot of work has gone into this, and it is an innovative proposal aimed at improving connectivity and train services in an area relatively poorly served. Go op is a cooperative, not a commercial organisation driven by shareholder profits.
Given the state of many of the current operators and services, I would have thought that forum members would be celebrating the success a new operator trying to improve the railway and gaining track access from ORR, rather than criticising. Perhaps some offers of support in making it happen would be more constructive?

I think we're just sceptical of any actual plan coming to fruition, to be honest.

 

[YorkRailFan]

It's certainly an odd but potentially useful route which doesn't have a core freqeuncy (although parts of it all do separately) but I also don't think there will be loads of demand. As stated above, there's still quite a few caveats before this comes into service.

The fact that the original plan was to use 153s (unsure whether this is still the plan) says it all when it comes to the amount of demand they are expecting.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Does anyone really believe that a service between a list of relatively small places can cover its costs?

That's not how rail finance works.

They'll get a small % of ALL of the flexible ticket sales between each of the calling points etc, even if the passenger doesn't necessarily travel with them. Even a small % of that revenue could be attractive.

The paths themselves are also a valuable asset in themselves, much like slots at an airport.

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if one of the larger owning groups becomes involved, but it shouldn't be too difficult to get private funding now they've got this far with ORR.

There's absolutely no chance they're going to set up their own control, training school, maintenance, train planners, delay attributors etc. I would imagine this will be something more along the lines of Caledonian Sleeper - hire the drivers in, outsource maintenance of stock, use external consultants etc for your professional services like scheduling etc . It could also be a Grand Central CrossCountry type situation where XC provide a lot of the support services.

 

[The exile]

Does the ORR charge for reviewing these applications?

It seems we get a lot of these open access "operators" coming up with grand plans but never actually get as far as operating a train!

To be fair a couple of the “no shows” were COVID casualties.

 

[GWVillager]

Goodness me, I am surprised at the overall negative tone of this thread to this news.
A lot of work has gone into this, and it is an innovative proposal aimed at improving connectivity and train services in an area relatively poorly served. Go op is a cooperative, not a commercial organisation driven by shareholder profits.
Given the state of many of the current operators and services, I would have thought that forum members would be celebrating the success a new operator trying to improve the railway and gaining track access from ORR, rather than criticising. Perhaps some offers of support in making it happen would be more constructive?

Agreed. I very much hope this does end up happening.

I do think it’s more likely to come to fruition than one might initially expect. They seem to have quite a few motivated and skilled people, and there are several pdfs on their website going into the plans in some detail. Local authority funding might also help them meet their obligations - as has been seen with new community bus services like the “Daffodil Line” in Herefordshire.

 

[The Planner]

Goodness me, I am surprised at the overall negative tone of this thread to this news.
A lot of work has gone into this, and it is an innovative proposal aimed at improving connectivity and train services in an area relatively poorly served. Go op is a cooperative, not a commercial organisation driven by shareholder profits.
Given the state of many of the current operators and services, I would have thought that forum members would be celebrating the success a new operator trying to improve the railway and gaining track access from ORR, rather than criticising. Perhaps some offers of support in making it happen would be more constructive?

The sceptisim comes from the amount of different routes they have tried to start, including Taunton to Nuneaton or Birmingham Moor St that had no chance of ever happening.

 

[MCR247]

Goodness me, I am surprised at the overall negative tone of this thread to this news.
A lot of work has gone into this, and it is an innovative proposal aimed at improving connectivity and train services in an area relatively poorly served. Go op is a cooperative, not a commercial organisation driven by shareholder profits.
Given the state of many of the current operators and services, I would have thought that forum members would be celebrating the success a new operator trying to improve the railway and gaining track access from ORR, rather than criticising. Perhaps some offers of support in making it happen would be more constructive?

If they get off the ground then fair play, but previous iterations have been less likely than some of the suggestions in the Speculative Discussion forum (and that’s saying something!)

 

[43096]

That's not how rail finance works.

They'll get a small % of ALL of the flexible ticket sales between each of the calling points etc, even if the passenger doesn't necessarily travel with them. Even a small % of that revenue could be attractive.

The paths themselves are also a valuable asset in themselves, much like slots at an airport.

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if one of the larger owning groups becomes involved, but it shouldn't be too difficult to get private funding now they've got this far with ORR.

If that's the case, why haven't they touched it thus far, and why hasn't serial applicant Ian Yeowart touched it, either? Running single car DMUs is never going to be a way of maximising revenue - ever wondered why all the Open Access operations so far have gone to London?

There's absolutely no chance they're going to set up their own control, training school, maintenance, train planners, delay attributors etc. I would imagine this will be something more along the lines of Caledonian Sleeper - hire the drivers in, outsource maintenance of stock, use external consultants etc for your professional services like scheduling etc . It could also be a Grand Central CrossCountry type situation where XC provide a lot of the support services.

Because that's not going to be expensive is it? You're building a good case for this to be a financial basket case.

 

[weeklycommuter]

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if one of the larger owning groups becomes involved, but it shouldn't be too difficult to get private funding now they've got this far with ORR.

Bringing in a larger owning group or private funding would defeat the point of this project which is for a passenger and worker co-operative to run public transport owned by users and workers. This makes it different to other open access applications. Whether it can be successful is another matter.

(no title)

Change Movement

go-op.coop

A passenger and worker co-operative preparing open access rail services for Somerset and Wiltshire.

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Public transport owned by users and workers

 

[Taunton]

Could they not have found something a little more useful than linking the notoriously sprawling metropolis’ of Taunton ... ?

Cheek ... !

 

[JonathanH]

Bringing in a larger owning group or private funding would defeat the point of this project which is for a passenger and worker co-operative to run public transport owned by users and workers. This makes it different to other open access applications. Whether it can be successful is another matter.

One problem with this would appear to be its longevity. If you are someone from Frome who could now get a job in Taunton, how long can you rely on this service being in place, offering links that don't exist now, as the basis for using this train to make that journey. Perhaps it needs to attract people who are already driving, but how many such people are there making those journeys?

 

[Killingworth]

I'm intrigued to note their website has a News and media centre link; https://go-op.coop/news-and-media-centre/ with first paragraph saying,

Latest news as of April 2023: in order to ensure passenger safety with a programme of level crossing improvements, Go-op has delayed the planned start of services to June 2024. Not all documents on this site have been updated to reflect this, so bear this in mind as you read. Our apologies for any disappointment.

The latest Newsletter seems to have been Summer 2023.

Their Facebook page is more up to date; https://www.facebook.com/gooptrain

I wish them well but doubt any Dragon would support the project as it's currently being described.

 

[Starmill]

Perhaps some offers of support in making it happen would be more constructive?

I suspect that it goes without saying that a large majority of the responders on this thread would want to support the service by buying a ticket and travelling on it! However it's inevitable that most people won't be frequently visiting the places en route of this service as none are particularly big attractions. I'm sure most people would still go for at least one trip when they're in this part of the country of course. In practical terms I'm not sure I can see what else forum members even could do to be supportive.

 

[01d-and]

153s can be coupled together, as TfW do.

Apologies if this has been asked before [and if it is going off topic] but in theory what is the maximum amount of 153's that can be run together ?