londonteacher
Member
- Joined
- 10 Aug 2018
- Messages
- 679
So do something then! Too many people say that will happen but currently it has not!We are not going to get out of this without civil disobedience.
So do something then! Too many people say that will happen but currently it has not!We are not going to get out of this without civil disobedience.
GoodSo do something then! Too many people say that will happen but currently it has not!
We are not going to get out of this without civil disobedience.
Exactly! The government would just impose a curfew and remove even more freedoms.We are not going to get out of this with civil disobedience.
No, and actually it doesn’t reflect very well on the forum if it looks like we’re indirectly encouraging it, so let’s be careful how we’re wording things please.We are not going to get out of this with civil disobedience.
Thank you!No, and actually it doesn’t reflect very well on the forum if it looks like we’re indirectly encouraging it, so let’s be careful how we’re wording things please.
Exactly! The government would just impose a curfew and remove even more freedoms.
And for all of the talk on here about civil disobedience, there is no sign of it yet!
So the civil disobedience the people are talking about is not staying at home - well that will definitely work! Boris and his government will ignore that!I’m not sure the latter is entirely true. The current government position is “stay at home”, and I’m not seeing much evidence of that round here. It doesn’t have to be crowds of people marching around with placards, simply a mass lack of respect for what the government wants.
And then there’s, of course, Barnard Castle, which even looking at things charitably was certainly very strongly testing the boundaries.
My understanding is a lower number than you might think, as I believe life expectancy at 80 is an average of 10 years. The Shipman argument is never a good look on this.
As for the numbers, I agree that we are talking about the least likely to be affected - but with 25% of recent hospitalisations being under 50, those numbers can still be significant.
On the balance of harm, yes - following the principle of measure twice, cut once. My objection to the approach of CRG, for example, is not to the dates per se, but to the prioritisation of dates over meaningful measures of success.
So the civil disobedience the people are talking about is not staying at home - well that will definitely work! Boris and his government will ignore that!
R rate is lowest since May last year with all other metrics going in the right direction and even Dr Doomster Ferguson is saying things are definitely improving. All positive stuff but BoJo doesn't need to worry about the stats too much we need a roadmap to full relaxation and the metrics that support the move between each stage. The dates for each stage will then follow in quick succession and i dearly hope they manage this dynamically not at fixed intervals.In terms of deaths we are roughly the equivalent of early May 2020 (cases are much higher but testing is widespread unlike just over 9 months ago). This was when measures started to be eased after lockdown one.
But without another wave as people will have been vaccinated by summer.
It won’t be no one staying at home though, there’s a considerable slice of the population who will follow the law unpalatable as it may be, all the while becoming increasingly annoyed at the “other people” who are “spreading the virus and delaying the day restrictions can be lifted”.You can't have an effective stay at home order if no one stays at home.
It won’t be no one staying at home though, there’s a considerable slice of the population who will follow the law unpalatable as it may be, all the while becoming increasingly annoyed at the “other people” who are “spreading the virus and delaying the day restrictions can be lifted”.
We'll get a test of that this weekend, with 15-16C forecast in London & the South East and East Anglia, and similar temperatures and dry weather are forecast more widely in the following week. However even in the snow enforcement was a challenge, thinking of the large sledge gathering in the north east that for a while overwhelmed the police force there.Yes, the usual government divide and rule tactic!
Warmer weather is certain to see more people ignoring restrictions to a much greater level, for sure. It won't take that big a percentage of the population to do this for it to become unworkable to keep the rules in place.
I think if futher proof was needed that this situation will never end, and we will never go back to normal, this is it.
By contrast at my employment, we're still experiencing supply chain issues due to large companies who aren't being prevented from operating, putting staff on furlough.
That's not especially unusual. When they closed Cardiff Bus station, it was the best part of a year before they took the lights away. Even when they had been physically removed, there was still a time in the traffic light sequence when the buses would have been leaving. Everyone just sat there waiting for nothing.Despite this being from last June two sets of traffic lights within the area are still on .......
Yep.I’m not sure the latter is entirely true. The current government position is “stay at home”, and I’m not seeing much evidence of that round here. It doesn’t have to be crowds of people marching around with placards, simply a mass lack of respect for what the government wants.
And then there’s, of course, Barnard Castle, which even looking at things charitably was certainly very strongly testing the boundaries.
During the first lockdown it was around May when people started piling down to Bournemouth during the nice weather.
Likely to be earlier than that this year if the weather is warm - last April a lot more people believed the rhetoric that this virus was far more dangerous than it actually is. That belief is long gone now.
Indoors the government can go whistle.Outdoor mixing should be almost unlimited by April this year. Indoors will be another story. Last April it was one person at a time, socially distanced.
Leon boss warns longer lockdown 'will cost lives'
Extending lockdowns even by a matter of weeks will "cost lives", the co-founder of fast-food chain Leon has said.
John Vincent said businesses were "at the heart of a functioning and healthy society" and were losing money that should be going to their employees and the government through taxes.
Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said people should be "optimistic but patient" about national lockdowns.
He will set out a road map for lifting England's restrictions on Monday.
Speaking on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, Mr Vincent said it was "quite possible" that Leon could fold "if weeks and months drag on", as it was losing around £200,000 a week. That figure was more like £800,000 when "what we would have been making" is taken into account, he said.
"That's money that isn't going into the economy, it's not going into the wallets of the people who work for Leon, and it's not going to pay the taxes that we need to pay," he said.
"No one's asked us for these numbers, so how does the government know what's going on in the economy?"
He said there had been a "pantomime of scientists against business" during the pandemic - "as if there isn't one giant shared agenda" - and the latter were "positioned as the uncompassionate ones".
But the length of lockdowns "matters hugely", he said, adding that the government had not produced a "holistic cost-benefit analysis".
"Therefore, how can we be making this decision about the impacts on the young today and for their futures? How can we make (decisions about) the impacts of the huge economic destruction which is costing lives? When we lose our economy we lose lives," he said.
"How can we be saying, glibly, 'it doesn't matter if lockdown carries on for a few weeks or months longer than necessary' without the analysis? I wouldn't launch a chicken wrap without analysis."
A spokesman for the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy said the prime minister would lay out a plan for "gradually reopening our economy and society in a sustainable way" on Monday.
"We understand that this is an extremely tough time for UK restaurants, but we are supporting business with one of the most comprehensive and generous packages of business support in the world worth over £280 billion," he said.
"As we navigate our way out of lockdown, we will continue to work closely with the hospitality sector, as we have done throughout this pandemic."
That doesn't sound like "Christmas at easter".Outdoor mixing should be almost unlimited by April this year. Indoors will be another story. Last April it was one person at a time, socially distanced.
The figure I saw (forget source) was average, so already allowed for variations in health.Sorry, but what is 'the Shipman argument'? Are you implying that anyone who doesn't agree with vicious restrictions is akin to Harold Shipman and 'murdering' people?
And an average life expectncy of 10 years is only if in good health, and those people are less likely to die if they get it anyway - those most at risk will mostly have a much shorter life expectancy.
The Shipman argument is that of those (police in particular) who didn’t actually look at his victims, instead just assuming that as they were elderly their deaths were inevitable and therefore not worth attention.
Exactly!! Life's too short. We've had nearly a year of this now. With much of the elderley and vunerable vaccinated now too. I'm certainly not gonna be at home with just my partner when he comes. I'll invite my best friend round soon either March or April. My mum who is 76 is vaccinated I still see and help her with jobs. Today 445 deaths. Down on last Saturdays 621 or something and just over 10, 000 cases, 2nd lowest this year.Indoors the government can go whistle.
Exactly!! Life's too short. We've had nearly a year of this now. With much of the elderley and vunerable vaccinated now too. I'm certainly not gonna be at home with just my partner when he comes. I'll invite my best friend round soon either March or April. My mum who is 76 is vaccinated I still see and help her with jobs. Today 445 deaths. Down on last Saturdays 621 or something and just over 10, 000 cases, 2nd lowest this year.
We need to say, once and for all, that no matter what happens, we will not resort to these inhumane and ineffective techniques ever again.I'm afraid I'm expecting the spectre of LOCKDOWN to hang over us into 2022 depending on how next winter goes.