No Eurostar to Amsterdam for almost a year

[sprunt]

I can't find anything that states this explicitly, so will direct services from London to Amsterdam be running as they were before there were any Eurostar facilities in the stations in the Netherlands?

 

[DanielB]

Yes they will, as those services don't need the border control facility.

 

[sprunt]

Yes they will, as those services don't need the border control facility.

Thanks. Will direct Rotterdam-London services continue then? If the trains are going to Amsterdam anyway, can't see why they shouldn't stop and pick up at Rotterdam on the way back.

 

[mad_rich]

I would have thought it was more likely to carry Schengen passengers between Amsterdam-Brussels as part of the 'Eurostar Red' offering (though not necessarily the same passengers who want to travel to London).

Isn't that how it worked previously?

 

[sprunt]

I would have thought it was more likely to carry Schengen passengers between Amsterdam-Brussels as part of the 'Eurostar Red' offering (though not necessarily the same passengers who want to travel to London).

Isn't that how it worked previously?

I think so, but that was before there were immigration facilities in Rotterdam.

 

[Austriantrain]

I think so, but that was before there were immigration facilities in Rotterdam.

The problem will likely be the capacity of the Rotterdam facilities if passengers from the Netherlands all check in there, instead of being split between Amsterdam and Rotterdam. Other than that, it would make perfect sense to start the trains in Rotterdam (running empty from Amsterdam).

 

[sprunt]

That could be controlled - as it presumably is now - by only selling as many tickets as the Rotterdam terminal can hold, couldn't it?

 

[Gaelan]

If, as some people have theorized, they're running the Amsterdam-Brussels portion as a Eurostar Red service, they wouldn't be allowed to mix pre- and post-border passengers.

 

[zwk500]

That could be controlled - as it presumably is now - by only selling as many tickets as the Rotterdam terminal can hold, couldn't it?

It's economically not worth it to only serve Rotterdam, as the market is to/from Amsterdam.

 

[rvdborgt]

It's economically not worth it to only serve Rotterdam, as the market is to/from Amsterdam.

The main factor here is that the Rotterdam terminal only has a capacity of 150. There's no room for extra passengers coming from Amsterdam on a domestic train to go through customs and secutainment in Rotterdam.

 

[DanielB]

No need to have a secured train is also convenient. Currently the Watergraafsmeer yard is secured to allow for the border security check of the train itself was mentioned in another topic.
However, one of the reasons platform 15 cannot be used for a while is the replacement of a bridge directly next to the Eurostar terminal. While that is ongoing you'd not be able to get a train from Watergraafsmeer into Amsterdam Centraal, but not needing a cleared train makes using another yard for cleaning an option.

 

[43102EMR]

If, as some people have theorized, they're running the Amsterdam-Brussels portion as a Eurostar Red service, they wouldn't be allowed to mix pre- and post-border passengers.

They aren’t - it’s the classic Eurostar, albeit alighting at Brussels for security checks then reboarding the same train, as has happened pre-2020.

 

[Gaelan]

They aren’t - it’s the classic Eurostar, albeit alighting at Brussels for security checks then reboarding the same train, as has happened pre-2020.

Ah right. I suppose it might be possible to put Rotterdam-London passengers in separate carriages, such that they can stay on board while the Amsterdam-London passengers undergo checks in Brussels - but not sure if platform layouts and such make this practical.

 

[zwk500]

Ah right. I suppose it might be possible to put Rotterdam-London passengers in separate carriages, such that they can stay on board while the Amsterdam-London passengers undergo checks in Brussels - but not sure if platform layouts and such make this practical.

Separating off a portion of the train was tried for Brussels-Lille passengers at one point and it wouldn't be worth it for the limited traffic from Rotterdam (both because of a limited market and the limited facilities at Rotterdam). It's much simpler, and therefore cheaper, easier and more reliable, to give the single instruction 'all security at Brussels'.

 

[Bemined]

However, one of the reasons platform 15 cannot be used for a while is the replacement of a bridge directly next to the Eurostar terminal. While that is ongoing you'd not be able to get a train from Watergraafsmeer into Amsterdam Centraal, but not needing a cleared train makes using another yard for cleaning an option.

You can still get to platform 13, when the new terminal is finished in december the Eurostar trains will depart from there as the bridge replacements takes 9 months.

 

[DanielB]

Ah right. I suppose it might be possible to put Rotterdam-London passengers in separate carriages, such that they can stay on board while the Amsterdam-London passengers undergo checks in Brussels - but not sure if platform layouts and such make this practical.

AFAIK a security cleared train cannot stop along a non-cleared platform. So you'd still need to secure half a platform at Amsterdam Central to do what you propose while passengers board on the other half.

 

[DanielB]

Plans have changed according to Dutch media: according to linked article in Dutch Eurostar have decided the E320s arriving from London won't return from Amsterdam to Brussels empty, but with passengers.
The Eurostar speaker interviewed by NOS stated passengers won't notice any difference in journey duration, the border checks will just move to Brussels for passengers travelling towards the UK.

It isn't explicitly mentioned, but this would suggest Eurostar will depart from Amsterdam at the current closing time for checking in. Passengers are then dropped off in Brussels, pass through border control and board again in (another?) E320.

 

[AdamWW]

Plans have changed according to Dutch media: according to linked article in Dutch Eurostar have decided the E320s arriving from London won't return from Amsterdam to Brussels empty, but with passengers.
The Eurostar speaker interviewed by NOS stated passengers won't notice any difference in journey duration, the border checks will just move to Brussels for passengers travelling towards the UK.

It isn't explicitly mentioned, but this would suggest Eurostar will depart from Amsterdam at the current closing time for checking in. Passengers are then dropped off in Brussels, pass through border control and board again in (another?) E320.

Hmmm.

I'm surprised that the effective journey time wouldn't have to be longer as that would be equivalent of everyone turning up at the closing time in Brussels.

The one time I used it from Amsterdam they were strongly encouraging people to check in well before the closing time.

 

[Beachcomber]

London passengers from Amsterdam will be required to use the Paris Eurostar "Red", departing at ..15, half an hour earlier than the discontinued direct Eurostar "Blue". This gives 45 minutes in Brussels South to go through the border checkpoint and join the London train. Since there is no check-in for the Paris trains, Eurostar claims passengers will lose little time overall.
The path of two of the discontinued direct trains to London will be used for an extra service Amsterdam-Brussels, additionally stopping at Schiphol Airport and Antwerp. I presume that this is a return trip for the e320 arriving from London, avoiding an ECS working. These trips have no onward connection to London though.

 

[BahrainLad]

Interesting. Are they going to facilitate that 45 minute connection and/or guarantee it in some way? It could be quite an interesting model for future inbound to the UK services if they can come up with something robust.

 

[Trainbike46]

Interesting. Are they going to facilitate that 45 minute connection and/or guarantee it in some way? It could be quite an interesting model for future inbound to the UK services if they can come up with something robust.

Eurostar has offered this connecting option from the Netherlands for many years, it will just temporarily be the only option.

When you say "guarantee it in some way" what do you mean? If your train into Brussels is late Eurostar accommodates passengers on the next train. In the past they would also hurry people through security. Once my train into Brussels was delayed, so only arrived in the station 10 minutes before the eurostar departed, and they got me (and all the other people making the same connection) through in time for the eurostar

 

[BahrainLad]

Yes that’s what I mean…hurrying people through security (perhaps with a dedicated lane), holding the London departure etc. rather than making people wait for the next train (which could after all be the following day.)
If you were being smart about it you’d allocate all Amsterdam - London “through” passengers to the same carriage/s of the Amsterdam - Brussels train, and escort them through security as one large group.

 

[paul1609]

If you can do that connection and not lose any passengers wouldnt it make sense to do that in both directions and permanantly do away with the through trains?

 

[Trainbike46]

If you can do that connection and not lose any passengers wouldnt it make sense to do that in both directions and permanantly do away with the through trains?

Commercially, the through train makes a lot of sense; direct trains attract more passengers and Amsterdam-London is one of the busiest air routes from both airports, so there is a lot of market to capture. The number of passengers taking the train on Amsterdam-London has grown quite a bit since the direct trains started, and there are lots of plans for further growth, both more trains and more capacity per train by increasing border & security check capacity in Amsterdam. After these building works there will be a capacity of ~650 passengers per train from Amsterdam, up from the current ~250 passengers per train.

 

[DanielB]

Interesting. Are they going to facilitate that 45 minute connection and/or guarantee it in some way?

I hope so, as delays are more likely as of today: it was just annouced today that there are now 9 speed restrictions to 120 km/h at the high speed line in the Netherlands due to construction errors leading to cracks in the concrete of several bridges.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

and not lose any passengers

The lack of a direct train, even if the connection is guarenteed, will be enough to dissuade more than a couple of people.

 

[nwales58]

just annouced today that there are now 9 speed restrictions to 120 km/h at the high speed line in the Netherlands due to construction errors leading to cracks

and it’s not southern Italy. What is going wrong with the world of construction? Bridges are hardly nuclear engineering.

 

[MotCO]

Earlier posts say that Amsterdam will close for direct Eurostar services in June 2024, and reopen in January 2025. Is this still the case?

 

[Beachcomber]

Last direct service Amsterdam-London will be on June 14th. Of course, direct services London-Amsterdam will continue. Direct services towards London should resume in January 2025, but this depends on the replacement of a bridge in the eastern approach of the secure station area. I assume the construction of the new enlarged terminal facilities in the eastern pedestrian tunnel is not on the critical path .

 

[nw1]

I know that this comment is deeply unfashionable and politically-incorrect in the 2020s, but....

This thread, more than anything else, illustrates the problems with hard borders. No other international service in Western Europe would be subject to this kind of circus.

But hey-ho, that's the world we live in, I guess.