No trains to call at Altnabreac for the foreseeable future

[Gloster]

Indeed, there was a 'drugs den' closure in my street quite recently, forbidding anyone from entering the property.
There is endangering the railway, then there is 'endangering the railway'. As the court case will ultimately discuss. Variant A remove a length of rail (as in Von Ryans Express) or variant B stand on a user worked crossing shouting and swearing.

All ‘fine’ until a driver has to slam on the brakes and a passenger who is standing up goes flying.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Presumably they would have been aware when they purchased the property that it was situated on an operational station.

Yes but you can't (generally) injunct people from the lawful use of their own home. A 'keep away from the railway' injunction would need to be very carefully worded, especially as they have to cross the line to gain access to their home (by one of the routes).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes but you can't (generally) injunct people from the lawful use of their own home.

You actually can if the issue is being caused as a result of presence in that home, e.g. serious neighbour disputes involving firearms, drugs etc.

It's not common, though. You would realistically probably need, as you say, to word it quite carefully.

 

[glasgowniteowl]

Looking at RT for that day a couple of trains seem to have been held up for about 10 minutes? Two police officers aren't wandering by a station in the wilds, or just happen to be travelling on a train that's obstructed. There's more been brewing here than we currently know.

From a post on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/share/p/UviH8JsCR66znjGt/

Seems they done it two days running and told staff on the first day their intentions,

 

[Baxenden Bank]

All ‘fine’ until a driver has to slam on the brakes and a passenger who is standing up goes flying.

In good time the prosecution will set out their view of the 'endangerment' (and other allegations) and the defence theirs. The jury / magistrate / whoever will consider those points carefully and, if a guilty verdict is reached, determine the penalty in accordance with the severity of the offence.

 

[apbj]

from The Times (via agency):

A couple have appeared in court after allegedly blocking Scotland’s most northerly railway line.
Liz Howe and her partner, Ian Appleby, are at the centre of a dispute which has already closed one of the country’s most remote train stations, Altnabreac in Caithness.
They have now been accused of standing in the middle of the main far north line on Friday morning and stopping a passenger service.
Howe, 48, and Appleby, 47, appeared from custody at Inverness sheriff court on Monday.
Howe, a former police detective, was charged with trespass on a railway, obstructing a police officer, malicious mischief and threatening behaviour. Appleby is facing charges of trespass, culpable and reckless conduct and threatening behaviour. Neither made any plea or declaration. They have been released on bail.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...9?shareToken=c43603ccd96be71fa07cf5262c9b89e5

More background from back in November here.

 

[Killingworth]

from The Times (via agency):



More background from back in November here.

Interestingly The Times has turned off comments on their latest piece. This couple are arming themselves to their legal teeth so others need to take care.

 

[The exile]

Difficult when your home is part of the station platform! The distance from their dining room to their bathroom is probably greater than that from their dining room to the track!

Precisely!

 

[ScottGallagher]

Surely a A1 case for compulsory purchase of their property to be rid of this nonsense once and for all

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Surely a A1 case for compulsory purchase of their property to be rid of this nonsense once and for all

No, not even a Z999 case. No powers whatsoever to CPO something because the owner has (in some people's view) been a bit of a bother. There are ways to deal with such people. What we don't have A1 clarity on is whether Scotrail / Network Rail dug their hole on their own property or someone else's.

There is the following nugget in a Freedom of Information response from Network Rail (on the Whatdotheyknow site).

You refer to “recent” issues at the station but there have been issues affecting the station for at least a decade involving dozens of staff members.

The couple in the news recently haven't been there for 10 years.

 

[HSTEd]

Does the Malicious Damage Act not apply in Scotland?
That would seem to be a pretty open and shut case for "Obstructing engines or carriages on railways" or for its related malicious intent offence.

EDIT:

Apparently it does not.

 

[Gloster]

As I have said before, I think there may be two separate issues here. One is concerned with access over the vehicle track from the public road and has been going on for some time, the other is related to access to the actual platform and adjacent railway facilities and is of recent date.

 

[HenHarrier]

Hi, I found this thread from a Google search. I'm not a train enthusiast so apologies for invading! But I was trying to find out something, kind of. I knew there was some, ahem, "fun and games" going on in relation to the station at Altnabreac. This is annoying me because I would like to use it for access to the walking opportunities out there.

Anyway, today I walked past the station and also took a train through the station so can say what I saw. On my walk I came to the level crossing. Gates at both sides shut, chained and padlocked at both ends. Green signs, "Private Land, No Public Right of Way" signs attached to the gates with zip ties. No I'm afraid I was very bad, I had been dropped off at the start of my walk 7 miles back and needed to get to Forsinard, 14 miles forward, in order to catch a train back to civilization. Any other route to civilization was going to add many miles to my journey on foot or a long wait in the cold somewhere which was not possible, or at least very much not preferable. So I climbed gates and nipped across the line. I obviously was careful about trains!! The signs bothered me, they didn't look official, no "Scotrail" insignia on them (I may have resigned myself to a change on plan if they HAD had that - I'm not a natural rebel AT ALL!)...

As I headed away from the line a train happened to go through, I noticed it slowed right down and was having a panic that I'd been seen being Bad. Having skimmed this thread and caught the train back I suspect that they just go through there slowly as a matter of course at the moment.

On the train on the way back I looked out for Altnabreac, just the existence of this station is fascinating to me (whhhyyy?) and I wanted a scooby at it. As we passed through, slowly, I saw that there were signs at either end of THE PLATFORM of a similar stamp to the green ones on the gates, but red, saying "Private Land Keep Out". I was a bit

What's going on? ARE those official signs or is someone taking the proverbial? Was I a Bad Person for ignoring them? Why buy a house on a train station platform if you are going to get annoyed by people using the station? Any idea what the situation with the level crossing is? Because I really enjoyed my adventure today and really that track has to be accessible to walkers and cyclists at the very least... it's part of The Great North Trail, people doing JOGLE and LEJOG will want to use it and be rights should be absolutely free to do so. When it comes to access rights I can understand farmers getting pissed off with people tramping over their fields but blocking access in this situation, a great big forestry track in the middle of nowhere that should bother nobody at all especially as not many people will be using it anyway even at the busiest times, is criminal in my view.

I'm glad I didn't encounter these people though and as a woman, walking alone, it is an extremely intimidating prospect that I might. Seems like I timed it nicely with them being in court today though!

 

[matchmaker]

Does the Malicious Damage Act not apply in Scotland?
That would seem to be a pretty open and shut case for "Obstructing engines or carriages on railways" or for its related malicious intent offence.

EDIT:

Apparently it does not.

The offence would be Malicious Mischief.

 

[nw1]

Yes but you can't (generally) injunct people from the lawful use of their own home. A 'keep away from the railway' injunction would need to be very carefully worded, especially as they have to cross the line to gain access to their home (by one of the routes).

Fair enough, but - the main point though is the people under discussion appear to be (from what I can make out) complaining about the railway when they, presumably, bought the house in the first place!

And in any case, the Far North line isn't exactly busy. It's not like you're living adjacent to the SWML on the approach to Woking.

 

[bramling]

Hi, I found this thread from a Google search. I'm not a train enthusiast so apologies for invading! But I was trying to find out something, kind of. I knew there was some, ahem, "fun and games" going on in relation to the station at Altnabreac. This is annoying me because I would like to use it for access to the walking opportunities out there.

Anyway, today I walked past the station and also took a train through the station so can say what I saw. On my walk I came to the level crossing. Gates at both sides shut, chained and padlocked at both ends. Green signs, "Private Land, No Public Right of Way" signs attached to the gates with zip ties. No I'm afraid I was very bad, I had been dropped off at the start of my walk 7 miles back and needed to get to Forsinard, 14 miles forward, in order to catch a train back to civilization. Any other route to civilization was going to add many miles to my journey on foot or a long wait in the cold somewhere which was not possible, or at least very much not preferable. So I climbed gates and nipped across the line. I obviously was careful about trains!! The signs bothered me, they didn't look official, no "Scotrail" insignia on them (I may have resigned myself to a change on plan if they HAD had that - I'm not a natural rebel AT ALL!)...
View attachment 153696
As I headed away from the line a train happened to go through, I noticed it slowed right down and was having a panic that I'd been seen being Bad. Having skimmed this thread and caught the train back I suspect that they just go through there slowly as a matter of course at the moment.

On the train on the way back I looked out for Altnabreac, just the existence of this station is fascinating to me (whhhyyy?) and I wanted a scooby at it. As we passed through, slowly, I saw that there were signs at either end of THE PLATFORM of a similar stamp to the green ones on the gates, but red, saying "Private Land Keep Out". I was a bit

What's going on? ARE those official signs or is someone taking the proverbial? Was I a Bad Person for ignoring them? Why buy a house on a train station platform if you are going to get annoyed by people using the station? Any idea what the situation with the level crossing is? Because I really enjoyed my adventure today and really that track has to be accessible to walkers and cyclists at the very least... it's part of The Great North Trail, people doing JOGLE and LEJOG will want to use it and be rights should be absolutely free to do so. When it comes to access rights I can understand farmers getting pissed off with people tramping over their fields but blocking access in this situation, a great big forestry track in the middle of nowhere that should bother nobody at all especially as not many people will be using it anyway even at the busiest times, is criminal in my view.

I'm glad I didn't encounter these people though and as a woman, walking alone, it is an extremely intimidating prospect that I might. Seems like I timed it nicely with them being in court today though!

Reading between the lines it does seem that they have bought the station house, and now won’t accept that part and parcel of this is having an operational station there.

They aren’t by any means unique in this. Llangunllo on the Central Wales Line has the same issue, albeit to nothing like the same extent. I get the feeling there’s certainly other station houses where the owners at best tolerate the presence of the associated station.

 

[nw1]

[photo of "PRIVATE - KEEP OUT" sign]

In any case, isn't it illegal in Scotland to prevent access to the countryside, in the manner this sign appears to be doing, unless there's a shoot going on?

 

[The Puddock]

On my walk I came to the level crossing. Gates at both sides shut, chained and padlocked at both ends. Green signs, "Private Land, No Public Right of Way" signs attached to the gates with zip ties.
...
What's going on? ARE those official signs or is someone taking the proverbial? ... Any idea what the situation with the level crossing is?

As I understand it, the level crossing gates have not been secured by Network Rail.

 

[HenHarrier]

Thanks for replies. Seems I don't have to have a sleepless night worrying that I broke the rules.

Those people need to calm the bleep down... there's like 4 tiny trains in each direction a day! Also there's several other cottages out there that presumably have been for sale at some point as they are newly advertised as holiday lets. Could they not have bought one of those.

I'm trying not to swear in case this is a polite forum. But honestly the whole situation is infuriating!

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Hi, I found this thread from a Google search. I'm not a train enthusiast so apologies for invading! But I was trying to find out something, kind of. I knew there was some, ahem, "fun and games" going on in relation to the station at Altnabreac. This is annoying me because I would like to use it for access to the walking opportunities out there.

Anyway, today I walked past the station and also took a train through the station so can say what I saw. On my walk I came to the level crossing. Gates at both sides shut, chained and padlocked at both ends. Green signs, "Private Land, No Public Right of Way" signs attached to the gates with zip ties. No I'm afraid I was very bad, I had been dropped off at the start of my walk 7 miles back and needed to get to Forsinard, 14 miles forward, in order to catch a train back to civilization. Any other route to civilization was going to add many miles to my journey on foot or a long wait in the cold somewhere which was not possible, or at least very much not preferable. So I climbed gates and nipped across the line. I obviously was careful about trains!! The signs bothered me, they didn't look official, no "Scotrail" insignia on them (I may have resigned myself to a change on plan if they HAD had that - I'm not a natural rebel AT ALL!)...
View attachment 153696
As I headed away from the line a train happened to go through, I noticed it slowed right down and was having a panic that I'd been seen being Bad. Having skimmed this thread and caught the train back I suspect that they just go through there slowly as a matter of course at the moment.

On the train on the way back I looked out for Altnabreac, just the existence of this station is fascinating to me (whhhyyy?) and I wanted a scooby at it. As we passed through, slowly, I saw that there were signs at either end of THE PLATFORM of a similar stamp to the green ones on the gates, but red, saying "Private Land Keep Out". I was a bit

What's going on? ARE those official signs or is someone taking the proverbial? Was I a Bad Person for ignoring them? Why buy a house on a train station platform if you are going to get annoyed by people using the station? Any idea what the situation with the level crossing is? Because I really enjoyed my adventure today and really that track has to be accessible to walkers and cyclists at the very least... it's part of The Great North Trail, people doing JOGLE and LEJOG will want to use it and be rights should be absolutely free to do so. When it comes to access rights I can understand farmers getting pissed off with people tramping over their fields but blocking access in this situation, a great big forestry track in the middle of nowhere that should bother nobody at all especially as not many people will be using it anyway even at the busiest times, is criminal in my view.

I'm glad I didn't encounter these people though and as a woman, walking alone, it is an extremely intimidating prospect that I might. Seems like I timed it nicely with them being in court today though!

Congratulations on being able to do a 21 mile walk!

Access legislation in Scotland is very generous with the 'right to roam responsibly'. Part 1 of the Land Reform Act (Scotland) 2003 sets out a right of responsible non-motorised access for recreational and other purposes, to land and inland water throughout Scotland, with a few exceptions. The Scottish Outdoor Access Code sets out the rights and responsibilities of land managers and those exercising access rights.

On a practical basis, there are people out there who do not respect that Act, or respect other bits of the law that they find inconvenient!

As to this case, I suspect there are few people who actually know the full story, it seems to have multiple strands and go back far longer (at least a decade) than since the couple mentioned moved to the area. Your report is the first that has mentioned signs on the platform though.

Private Land - most of it is, that doesn't mean you can't go on it though.
No Right of Way - Scotland has few recorded rights of way (in the way people in England and Wales can view them on Definitive Maps, copied across to Ordnance Survey maps), whether the padlocks and green sign are meant to refer to / deter just vehicles or also to people exercising their right of access on foot, who knows.

 

[HenHarrier]

I wish I'd got pictures of the platform signs, but I didn't have my phone handy. They were red, on red sticks smack in the middle of the platform at either end of it if that makes sense. I'm not planning on going out that way again for a while and certainly won't be approaching the platform on foot anyway, but if I decide on another train-based adventure I'll keep an eye out. Unfortunately, reading about how bonkers these people have been acting makes me worried about heading out there on my own at all.

Forsinard Station was lovely though. RSPB visitors centre in the station building with stuff to read while I waited.

 

[Struner]

Hi, I found this thread from a Google search. I'm not a train enthusiast so apologies for invading! But I was trying to find out something, kind of. I knew there was some, ahem, "fun and games" going on in relation to the station at Altnabreac. This is annoying me because I would like to use it for access to the walking opportunities out there.

Anyway, today I walked past the station and also took a train through the station so can say what I saw. On my walk I came to the level crossing. Gates at both sides shut, chained and padlocked at both ends. Green signs, "Private Land, No Public Right of Way" signs attached to the gates with zip ties. No I'm afraid I was very bad, I had been dropped off at the start of my walk 7 miles back and needed to get to Forsinard, 14 miles forward, in order to catch a train back to civilization. Any other route to civilization was going to add many miles to my journey on foot or a long wait in the cold somewhere which was not possible, or at least very much not preferable. So I climbed gates and nipped across the line. I obviously was careful about trains!! The signs bothered me, they didn't look official, no "Scotrail" insignia on them (I may have resigned myself to a change on plan if they HAD had that - I'm not a natural rebel AT ALL!)...
View attachment 153696
As I headed away from the line a train happened to go through, I noticed it slowed right down and was having a panic that I'd been seen being Bad. Having skimmed this thread and caught the train back I suspect that they just go through there slowly as a matter of course at the moment.

On the train on the way back I looked out for Altnabreac, just the existence of this station is fascinating to me (whhhyyy?) and I wanted a scooby at it. As we passed through, slowly, I saw that there were signs at either end of THE PLATFORM of a similar stamp to the green ones on the gates, but red, saying "Private Land Keep Out". I was a bit

What's going on? ARE those official signs or is someone taking the proverbial? Was I a Bad Person for ignoring them? Why buy a house on a train station platform if you are going to get annoyed by people using the station? Any idea what the situation with the level crossing is? Because I really enjoyed my adventure today and really that track has to be accessible to walkers and cyclists at the very least... it's part of The Great North Trail, people doing JOGLE and LEJOG will want to use it and be rights should be absolutely free to do so. When it comes to access rights I can understand farmers getting pissed off with people tramping over their fields but blocking access in this situation, a great big forestry track in the middle of nowhere that should bother nobody at all especially as not many people will be using it anyway even at the busiest times, is criminal in my view.

I'm glad I didn't encounter these people though and as a woman, walking alone, it is an extremely intimidating prospect that I might. Seems like I timed it nicely with them being in court today thou

Hi, I found this thread from a Google search. I'm not a train enthusiast so apologies for invading! But I was trying to find out something, kind of. I knew there was some, ahem, "fun and games" going on in relation to the station at Altnabreac. This is annoying me because I would like to use it for access to the walking opportunities out there.

Anyway, today I walked past the station and also took a train through the station so can say what I saw. On my walk I came to the level crossing. Gates at both sides shut, chained and padlocked at both ends. Green signs, "Private Land, No Public Right of Way" signs attached to the gates with zip ties. No I'm afraid I was very bad, I had been dropped off at the start of my walk 7 miles back and needed to get to Forsinard, 14 miles forward, in order to catch a train back to civilization. Any other route to civilization was going to add many miles to my journey on foot or a long wait in the cold somewhere which was not possible, or at least very much not preferable. So I climbed gates and nipped across the line. I obviously was careful about trains!! The signs bothered me, they didn't look official, no "Scotrail" insignia on them (I may have resigned myself to a change on plan if they HAD had that - I'm not a natural rebel AT ALL!)...
View attachment 153696
As I headed away from the line a train happened to go through, I noticed it slowed right down and was having a panic that I'd been seen being Bad. Having skimmed this thread and caught the train back I suspect that they just go through there slowly as a matter of course at the moment.

On the train on the way back I looked out for Altnabreac, just the existence of this station is fascinating to me (whhhyyy?) and I wanted a scooby at it. As we passed through, slowly, I saw that there were signs at either end of THE PLATFORM of a similar stamp to the green ones on the gates, but red, saying "Private Land Keep Out". I was a bit

What's going on? ARE those official signs or is someone taking the proverbial? Was I a Bad Person for ignoring them? Why buy a house on a train station platform if you are going to get annoyed by people using the station? Any idea what the situation with the level crossing is? Because I really enjoyed my adventure today and really that track has to be accessible to walkers and cyclists at the very least... it's part of The Great North Trail, people doing JOGLE and LEJOG will want to use it and be rights should be absolutely free to do so. When it comes to access rights I can understand farmers getting pissed off with people tramping over their fields but blocking access in this situation, a great big forestry track in the middle of nowhere that should bother nobody at all especially as not many people will be using it anyway even at the busiest times, is criminal in my view.

I'm glad I didn't encounter these people though and as a woman, walking alone, it is an extremely intimidating prospect that I might. Seems like I timed it nicely with them being in court today though! Right right

thank you. the Scottish rights of ways society (1845) (of which I’m a life member) has published a leaflet on the right to roam:

https://scotways.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/A3-DL-law-leaflet-2022-WEB.pdf

Please allow me to share your photo

 

[reb0118]

Injunction

The equivalent under Scots Law is an interdict.

 

[HenHarrier]

https://scotways.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/A3-DL-law-leaflet-2022-WEB.pdf

Please allow me to share your photo

Of course! Please do.

Taken today, 5th March 2024, at just before 9am.

 

[Steelman]

I'm London based and work in transport planning. We have similar issues here where people buy land off the local authority or off developers and automatically think they have the legal right to enclose it and do want they want with it. However, if TfL is the transport authority, they have certain rights over that land which prevent you from developing or enclosing that land. Numerous people have purchased land thinking they can stick a fence around it and have it as their own whereas in reality they can't. Possession isn't nine tenths of the law, highway authorities exert a huge amount of power over what you can and can't do.

 

[Struner]

Thank you from caithness! +
Ach well, perhaps this is what they need (right outside their home…)

 

[honoraryjanner]

Hi all,

Another weirdo here who is obsessed with Altnabreac. I've got off trains there to go walking many times and had a brief run-in with the previous station cottage owner in March 2020.

Thought it might be of interest to others to know that I saw two coppers by the level crossing (west of line) when travelling southbound from Thurso on 09/03/24. I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that they didn't just happen to be passing by on their way somewhere else.

This tells me that there is still concern about the residents of station cottage repeating their antics.

The station shelter has also been boarded up and various bits of tree limbs strewn about the platform. It looks to me like someone is making the platform their own.

 

[bramling]

The station shelter has also been boarded up and various bits of tree limbs strewn about the platform. It looks to me like someone is making the platform their own.

This behaviour should be stamped upon by the BTP at the earliest moment. It’s completely unacceptable. They (presumably) don’t own the platform, and have no right to interfere with people legitimately using it, and whose tax / fares pay for it to be there.

 

[takno]

This behaviour should be stamped upon by the BTP at the earliest moment. It’s completely unacceptable. They (presumably) don’t own the platform, and have no right to interfere with people legitimately using it, and whose tax / fares pay for it to be there.

I assume they are letting the case build up. It's probably not trivial to get people arrested or injuncted for this kind of low-level stuff, and you have to be able to establish who is doing what. There appears to have been a much more complex problem in the area before the completely-sane-and-apparently-lawyered-up couple even arrived, which suggests that doing anything obvious may just be playing into the hands of whoever is the real problem.

 

[honoraryjanner]

I assume they are letting the case build up. It's probably not trivial to get people arrested or injuncted for this kind of low-level stuff, and you have to be able to establish who is doing what. There appears to have been a much more complex problem in the area before the completely-sane-and-apparently-lawyered-up couple even arrived, which suggests that doing anything obvious may just be playing into the hands of whoever is the real problem.

This has to be the plan. Give them enough rope...