NXEC plans to barrier stations

[sven945]

He insists on checking my reservation (the first time I've seen that on the barriers) which delayed me even more.

I really wanted to say to him "about bloody time", but thought better of it. He even asked to see my railcard. Now I had never seen anyone so desperate before.

Don't get me wrong, they are useful to stop fare evasion or at least reduce it.

So you accept the need for reducing fare evasion, yet you get annoyed when the staff try to do that?

Having automated barriers (rather than a line of revenue protection staff like that rather excellent lot at Euston for Virgin) on long distance routes does seem rather odd. With the huge number of different ticket types, advance purchase tickets, railcards, tickets stapled together etc. in order to run a decent system you're going to have to have a decent level of staffing anyway. So you might as well just have them checking them as you go through and not have expensive machines to break down.

 

[Techniquest]

Like I was trying to say, the fact he was taking ages over checking everything on the ticket and delaying everyone because the barriers refuse to accept valid Advance fares was annoying not just me but everyone else. Most staff look at the date and where's its from and to and let you through (assuming its valid), but no, he was the sort that would prefer to have microscopes to check everything with.

 

[sven945]

There's no way I'd accept that. Just go round to the other barriers on the footbridge and that would bypass the jobsworth. Alternatively, demand a manager. If neither were possible as a last resort I'd just say "I have a valid ticket, I am walking through and you can't physically stop me".

If you're absolutely convinced about the route then ask to speak to someone else, sure. But just be warned that, regardless of if you have a valid ticket or not, revenue protection staff often have the right to refuse travel. And no, they can't physically stop you. But a quick call to the BTP and you can be removed from the station.
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Most staff look at the date and where's its from and to and let you through (assuming its valid), but no, he was the sort that would prefer to have microscopes to check everything with.

But without seeing the railcard (and the reservation for an advance ticket) it's not valid.

 

[furryfeet]

regardless of if you have a valid ticket or not, revenue protection staff often have the right to refuse travel.

Explain this statement !
I would like to see the legal statement that permits such behaviour printed on this forum.
If you have a valid ticket, then the train operators have a legally binding contract to get you to your destination station.

 

[yorkie]

If you're absolutely convinced about the route then ask to speak to someone else, sure. But just be warned that, regardless of if you have a valid ticket or not, revenue protection staff often have the right to refuse travel.

Oh no they can't!

And no, they can't physically stop you.

Indeed

But a quick call to the BTP and you can be removed from the station.

On what grounds?

 

[sven945]

Explain this statement !
I would like to see the legal statement that permits such behaviour printed on this forum.
If you have a valid ticket, then the train operators have a legally binding contract to get you to your destination station.

I'd imagine that point 58 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage (my copy is dated 24th July 2006) would fairly easily cover barging past a member of revenue protection staff.

 

[metrocammel]

I'd imagine that point 58 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage (my copy is dated 24th July 2006) would fairly easily cover barging past a member of revenue protection staff.

Point 58 of the NRCoC states:

58. Unacceptable conduct
Any person who a Train Company believes is likely to act in a riotous, disorderly or
offensive manner may be refused access to, or may be required to leave, trains,
platforms or stations

Firstly, no one has mentioned anyone 'barging' past staff, so that point is irrelevant in this instance. If, however, a member of staff tries to argue that a ticket is invalid, when in fact it is valid - the staff member cannot refuse travel, or ask you to leave the premises - (unless, of course, the passenger is proved wrong by the routeing guide or otherwise).

I had this problem the other day with a barrier person, who tried to claim you cannot break your journey, and re-start it the next day on the return portion of an 'Anytime' ticket. It was quite an annoyance, and made me miss the train I was originally intending to get - eventually, despite his colleagues backing him up, he backed down, and grudgingly let me through, without an apolgy.

 

[laseandre]

I've just received a letter from the City of York Council about the alterations to NXEC's plan for York Station. The revised plans are now up at: http://planning.york.gov.uk/PublicA...lication_detailview.aspx?caseno=KBXF5PSJ0A700

 

[Techniquest]

I got a letter about it too, still to have a look at the revised plans so will comment then. Ta for posting the link.

 

[yorkie]

Can anyone actually see the plans? I guess they are meant to be under "Associated documents" but that just gives me an error, as it has done ever since I first tried to view it nearly a month ago.

 

[Mojo]

Can anyone actually see the plans? I guess they are meant to be under "Associated documents" but that just gives me an error, as it has done ever since I first tried to view it nearly a month ago.

They are. Unfortunately this horrendous software that a large number of councils use doesn't work properly in Firefox, try opening it in IE and it works fine.

 

[blacknight]

Leeds guards are learning them currently.

I dont know how true it is but years ago I asked a GNER guard why they were still using excess fares book as instead of SPORTIS at that time & was told that all revenue from excess fares books was retained by GNER & not shared amongst other TOC's. So Advantix is progress but at what cost to NXEC revenues?

 

[spoony]

Are barriers going up at KX? Im planning on using GC from KX-SUN in May but was just planning on turning up and paying on board.

 

[TGVDUDE]

why put a barrier at Kings Cross, i mean have they seen the chaos those barriers have caused at Paddington, King's Cross and Paddington are the same, very big commuting terminuses and interter city! there is a small area at the end of the platforms at Kings Cross as it is so why put a ticket barrier there to make it worse and barriers can fail, causing more delays!, best thing to do is to mann the entry to the train (at the doors) to check the tickets there. and at York, WHY i mean the NRM shortcut will be useless and again ther eis barely any space for lines for such a well used station, bad idea NXEC if you ask me

 

[will1337]

I also really can't see York working, there's the NRM shortcut and also the entrance into the side by the hotel/model railway museum and at the other end of that side by the car park unless that's been closed. They'd have to be either side of where WH Smith is but i'd think it'd end up being another Bath Spa where there's ridiculous queues because there's simply too much people traffic and it'd also conflict with the people waiting outside Burger King looking at the info boards.

 

[aptisman]

Can anyone advise how for NXEC have got with the installation of barriers?

The only station I know of so far is Grantham.

Thanks.

 

[gordonthemoron]

there was no sign at Newark in June. Leeds have had their non-functioning ones for ages

 

[blacknight]

Gates have now been installed at Newark Northgate but they are at present non operational.

 

[Aictos]

I'm sure they will be installed soon at Peterborough seeing as FCC no doubt will be more then happy to split the costs of the new gateline with NXEC like they have done so at Cambridge with NXEA.

With Elaine back at the helm of East Coast in the Autumn, it is possible and to be truthful would certainly be worth it.

Then all NXEC would have to do is remove the staff gate at the end of platform 2 and use the next gate along the platform heading towards the platform office seeing as the gate was only there in the first place as a favour to Royal Mail when the TPOs were running.

I believe gatelines are a excellent addition to our railways but they do need to be manned properly by TOCs ie make sure the only way in or out of the platforms is via the gatelines and make sure they're manned the majority of the time ie for stations like Peterborough manned them until 2230 like Stevenage do.

 

[jdtaylor]

Well for me things are rather interesting, I might be sometimes be met by staff due to my need of assitance for boarding, but quite often they will plunge the extra wide barrier for me at Cambridge, when leaving possibly as I know the Managment Team at NX EA and sometimes they don't bother asking to check mine, possibly as they know me but quite often I show it anyway but what's intersting is for people with assitance, sometimes at Stevenage they will ask to check tickets after the lifts, but sometimes on the way down they don't bother.

Also, what annoys me and puzzles me the most is at Stevenage, the accessible toilet is well on the wrong side of the barrier, when I think I pointed this out to FCC, I think there might have been a small feeling of embrassment by this, but anyway what is intersting is Bishops Stortford do not have any barriers at all, and may not do so, due to the station design but they might be possible but could cause a lot of problems.

Also, one station has had it's ticket machine stolen, this has lead in the long run I believe the ticket office being manned but most of the day it's an unmanned station. What interests me though is it could be possible at Whittlesford Parkway to catch a London bound train say to Bishops Stortford without a ticket and I've already told Managment about this but I do know in my personal circumstanse, I believe I have clearence to get a ticket at the other end for both directions of travel but I need to check this from this station but I do normally try and buy these tickets in advance, although I know I might be put to the front of a queue, if the ticket machines were non working at Cambridge but it is handy when you know people, at train companies as you can get much higher quality service than usual plus some of the best service I have ever experinced has actually been with NX EA and they've actually in the end worked with FCC when there has been a serious assitance problem, both have worked together for me to ensure problems I've had never happen again.

Although, I think Harlow Town has staff checking tickets, and this has caused problems getting to the accessible toilet once before, but it's been quickly cleared up, but to my knowledge, I've only had one ticket check in 4-5 trips but this may be down to more ticket barriers this just does make you wonder how many tickets do really get checked.

 

[D841]

But you can pay on board railtours.

And back to the GC thing, I don't see how NXEC have any right to interfear in any way with any of their customers unless GC gives them permission to do so.

At Manchester Piccadilly, Securicor are hired in on behalf of Northern to do human barriers on Platforms 1-12, and a while back they were also barriering TPE trains that were also on these platforms. TPE objected so the practice was stopped. However the situation is different at Platform 13/14, I guess NT/TPE must have an agreement in place for that.

The controls on the lower numbered platforms don't differentiate between Northern passengers, TPE passengers or any others. Ditto those on the footbridge where platforms 13 and 14 are accessed. If there are staff checking tickets, they check _everyone's_ ticket!

 

[alexdodds]

they have been up and running at Darlington for a few weeks now and shortly they will be going live at Durham next.

 

[monkey]

...eugh, soon to be installed in newcastle too. *groan*

 

[Waverley125]

I'm sorry, but gates are not the answer for every station.

Leeds-yes, the old human checked barriers were slow and ineffective, but they need to work properly, and there needs to be a proper platform-side ticket office for people arriving into the station, as well as working ticket machines throughout the network area.

York-no. They'd destroy the atmosphere of the station. Plus, most people travelling into york have come a reasonable distance, so should have been checked on-train.