Paper season tickets to be phased out?

[johncrossley]

Yes, but if you buy an annual season paper ticket and lose it you have to pay for a replacement and only get (I think) 2 replacements a year, if you lose your smart card it gets cancelled, similar to a credit card and you get a replacement.

Fraud is also easy with a paper ticket, less so with a smart card

The letter you get from the TOC when you have lost your paper ticket is almost accusatory in tone.

 

[Snow1964]

Yes, but if you buy an annual season paper ticket and lose it you have to pay for a replacement and only get (I think) 2 replacements a year, if you lose your smart card it gets cancelled, similar to a credit card and you get a replacement.

Fraud is also easy with a paper ticket, less so with a smart card

I have just checked the South Western Railway smartcard help pages, and it says if you lose it with season ticket on it, have to pay a fee for a replacement and wait 7 days for a replacement

I don’t know how much fee is, or fee for replacing paper version, so can’t compare fees, but the delay in replacing seems worse, so I think your answer is misleading.

If you lose your smartcard or it is stolen, you should visit one of our ticket offices, call us on 0345 6000 650 or email us at [email protected] as soon as possible. We will cancel your card so that no-one else can use it. We will then issue a replacement card, which will take up to seven days to arrive.

If you had a Season Ticket loaded onto the lost or stolen smartcard which was still valid for more than one week, we will also arrange for this to be loaded onto your replacement smartcard. We will charge an administration fee for doing this

It then goes on and makes your smart card recommendation comical, as actually suggests getting paper tickets

You will need to buy paper tickets from the station until your replacement smartcard arrives. We may refund the cost of these once you receive your replacement smartcard.

If your smartcard had other tickets stored on it, please call our Customer Services team on 0345 6000 650 to discuss this.

 

[johncrossley]

If you have a spare smartcard, can the lost season ticket be transferred to it immediately?

 

[skyhigh]

But biggest gripe is stations without readers (or not working readers ) at every entrances and exits, so can’t touch in/out. Not a problem with paper season ticket.

If you simply have a weekly/monthly/annual season there's no requirement to tap in or out - the only time you'd need to do so is if there were barriers.

 

[Starmill]

Apparently ticket offices run by Avanti can't issue to smartcards yet. So I am unlikely to use one.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Paper tickets expiry date can be read by customer in under 1 second.

Smart card expiry cannot be seen unless you use alternative like remembering to have a mobile with you, and open an app, or find a piece of paper where you wrote it, which is considerably slower and more work.

Smart cards only really benefit the issuer, not the customer.

Of course, there is a bribe to use them (some cheaper tickets, and multiple date (non consecutive days) tickets are only available if you use them.

But biggest gripe is stations without readers (or not working readers ) at every entrances and exits, so can’t touch in/out. Not a problem with paper season ticket.

Tap it on a TVM. How many paper encodes does the average customer go through in a year?

 

[RPI]

I have just checked the South Western Railway smartcard help pages, and it says if you lose it with season ticket on it, have to pay a fee for a replacement and wait 7 days for a replacement

I don’t know how much fee is, or fee for replacing paper version, so can’t compare fees, but the delay in replacing seems worse, so I think your answer is misleading.


It then goes on and makes your smart card recommendation comical, as actually suggests getting paper tickets

At any GWR station they can print a new smartcard for you in about 60 seconds and they're free

 

[E759]

You can now load Outboundary Day Travelcards to a smartcard. Southern/Thameslink only allow you to do that at the ticket machine, but other TOCs let you do that using the NFC facility on your phone through ticket apps, such as EMR.

Many thanks for that info! I always check when buying online if that facility has magically become available and infrequently peruse the FAQ but must have missed the announcement. Fortunately my station has a number of ticket machines including those new-fangled orange Key machines. Will try one out when I next need a day Travelcard.

 

[js1000]

I don’t expect paper season tickets to die off just yet.

I would prefer to use neither; instead I would like to see e-tickets issued with a barcode/QR/Aztec code that could be scanned.

There would be ways of having it linked to a photo, if needed.

Not a fan of paper tickets, as mentioned above they fade over time/stop working/both. Teething problems with some smartcards are still persisting & I’ve found others, such as the Merseyrail/Merseytravel one, to be more hassle than they’re worth.

It was said to me that Northern are "looking" to phase them out at the end of the year. I'm still doubtful personally. The DfT have been saying they'll phase out paper tickets for years and then always back down realising they cause more confusion and hassle than they're worth.

Phasing out paper tickets is a perennial hobby horse of the DfT, which seems to divert a considerable amount of their time and effort (which could otherwise be spent improving services).

Agreed. The most frustrating part from a passenger perspective is that every TOC has their own smartcard even though they are all the same in terms of ITSO compliance. It basically means every TOC has to have a separate back of house department for technical issues / passenger queries and ultimately doubling up costs many times over. There was an inevitability about the 'Great British Railways' proposal when considering the fragmentation in regards to ticketing and timetables.

 

[Nova1]

I've constantly had issues with my WMR smartcard (which actually you have to get from LNR...). There's no gateline or activators at my destination or origin station, so I have to use the app. Which is awful, often just fails.

 

[Cdd89]

I hope the option for paper remains - it takes up considerably less space in the wallet! I’d warmly welcome an e-season ticket though.

 

[janb]

I hope the option for paper remains - it takes up considerably less space in the wallet! I’d warmly welcome an e-season ticket though.

Northern are trialling season e-tickets between Leeds and Harrogate. Its part of the picture in terms of a potential paper free future.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Northern are trialling season e-tickets between Leeds and Harrogate. Its part of the picture in terms of a potential paper free future.

LNER have had eTickets available on all suitable flows for a couple of years.

I hope the option for paper remains - it takes up considerably less space in the wallet! I’d warmly welcome an e-season ticket though.

How does a smartcard with a photo on take up more room than a CCST and a photocard?

 

[Haywain]

LNER have had eTickets available on all suitable flows for a couple of years.

For season tickets?

 

[YorksLad12]

Yesterday on my way back to Leeds: the woman in the seat in front had a ticket on her phone; the three people in the table seats across from me had a phone barcode, a pdf printout of a barcode and what I think is described as "bog roll"; yellow paper tickets with a barcode on.

I had a paper ticket. "I'm old school," I proudly announced. But I wasn't the oldest person of this group; that was one of the phone-holders. People adapt. If I could buy my tickets and upload them to an LNER smartcard* that would work for me just as well as a phone app (which requires me to have a smart phone, of course). Keep paper tickets for on-the-day sales?

*Effectively, that's how Oyster PAYG or MCard Day Tickets (in West Yorkshire) work.

 

[[.n]]

Yes Smartcards do have universal acceptence, franchises were amended in 2018 to provide this. Yes there is a central record provided by RDG.

Yes on paper - please don't try and pretend that this is true in reality. I have only managed once or twice to actually load a ticket from my TOC onto its own smartcard. Lets also not forgot to an "average" person a smartcard will encompass the plastic card that is used for travel - so will include oyster, 16-25 railcards, bus passes, etc.

And my letter was very clear that there was no central record kept for my smartcard that if I lost it they wouldn't be able to work out what my card number was unless I told them.

 

[johntea]

Amusingly I was exiting Piccadilly the other day with the inspector blockade at the 13/14 door and they almost seemed a bit took back when I presented a paper ticket rather than something for them to scan

I do prefer a 'smart piece of plastic' over something stored on my phone however, apart from the obvious battery issues it can be rather annoying when a guard chooses to leave an inspection until the middle of a journey and you've started watching a TV show or something on your phone then have to hastily switch to the rail app to show your ticket!

Although it has got me thinking...couldn't a debit/credit card be linked up to an account or is that different technology altogether?

 

[Wallsendmag]

And my letter was very clear that there was no central record kept for my smartcard that if I lost it they wouldn't be able to work out what my card number was unless I told them.

OK , Wonder what I'm using then that I can see every Smartcard that I have from nearly all TOCs and all the taps that I've made on various gates.

 

[Haywain]

OK , Wonder what I'm using then that I can see every Smartcard that I have from nearly all TOCs and all the taps that I've made on various gates.

As long as you know the card number.

 

[Wallsendmag]

As long as you know the card number.

Or name . We actually have two applications that we can use to find Smartcard details. One fromm Tracksis and one from RDG

 

[[.n]]

Or name . We actually have two applications that we can use to find Smartcard details. One fromm Tracksis and one from RDG

Go on them - my name is "John Smith" - how do you work out which one is my card number?

You yourself even mentioned "nearly all TOCs" so not all TOCs.

I actually tried to get my most recent annual season put onto a smartcard (purchased within the last month, and from a major train station and it appeared that the system just wouldn't allow it - it was even a smartcard from that TOC) - so you'll forgive if stick with my view that whilst I understand that it would be nice if worked as well in reality as on paper - but we're not there yet.

Its very similar to the whole e-tickets / m-tickets / print @home tickets etc. shambles - sometimes you can have them , sometimes you can't, break of journey is tricky, etc. Same with when "paper" tickets are issued outside of the normal credit card sized format, the "bog-rolls", or other sizes. For every potential gain, there is a loss from the existing standard.

I suspect eventually it will be app and nfc based smart ticketing that will become the norm. I was actually quite surprised at the level of information given to me when I used my phone with Samsung Pay and with a card set as my default transport card - the TFL detail was very good, the detail from First could do with improvement

 

[Scott1]

Go on them - my name is "John Smith" - how do you work out which one is my card number?

Your name and postcode allow me to find your card number.

 

[[.n]]

Your name and postcode allow me to find your card number.

Which is useful to know if I needed that. But as I originally mentioned completely at odds with the letter I received when I got my smartcard that my number wasn't recorded anywhere and therefore I needed to take a note of it.

 

[AM9]

Go on them - my name is "John Smith" - how do you work out which one is my card number?

You yourself even mentioned "nearly all TOCs" so not all TOCs.

I actually tried to get my most recent annual season put onto a smartcard (purchased within the last month, and from a major train station and it appeared that the system just wouldn't allow it - it was even a smartcard from that TOC) - so you'll forgive if stick with my view that whilst I understand that it would be nice if worked as well in reality as on paper - but we're not there yet.

Its very similar to the whole e-tickets / m-tickets / print @home tickets etc. shambles - sometimes you can have them , sometimes you can't, break of journey is tricky, etc. Same with when "paper" tickets are issued outside of the normal credit card sized format, the "bog-rolls", or other sizes. For every potential gain, there is a loss from the existing standard.

I suspect eventually it will be app and nfc based smart ticketing that will become the norm. I was actually quite surprised at the level of information given to me when I used my phone with Samsung Pay and with a card set as my default transport card - the TFL detail was very good, the detail from First could do with improvement

So you would be making a smartphone mandatory for travel on public transport. I don't think so.

 

[Deerfold]

I find it hard to believe that Metro can provide offpeak versions of the group and family tickets but not the individual ones. It’s arguably the most useful ticket in their portfolio and the hardest to buy.

It does seem odd. It's also odd that the MCards can't have a Bus and Train day ticket on them but can hold Bus and Train seasons.

I do wonder how many people have looked into MCards and MCard Mobile and decided it didn't suit their needs. Will they look again at whatever date Metro manage to include an adult off-peak ticket, given they're not telling people there are plans to unless they specifically ask?

 

[Ianno87]

So you would be making a smartphone mandatory for travel on public transport. I don't think so.

The wording was "norm" not "mandatory".

 

[Wolfie]

Amusingly I was exiting Piccadilly the other day with the inspector blockade at the 13/14 door and they almost seemed a bit took back when I presented a paper ticket rather than something for them to scan

I do prefer a 'smart piece of plastic' over something stored on my phone however, apart from the obvious battery issues it can be rather annoying when a guard chooses to leave an inspection until the middle of a journey and you've started watching a TV show or something on your phone then have to hastily switch to the rail app to show your ticket!

Although it has got me thinking...couldn't a debit/credit card be linked up to an account or is that different technology altogether?

I fully empathise. I live in the Smoke and have a paper Annual ST. That just doesn't compute for many transport workers.

No, l can't scan it... Well, l could but....

 

[YorksLad12]

It does seem odd. It's also odd that the MCards can't have a Bus and Train day ticket on them but can hold Bus and Train seasons.

I do wonder how many people have looked into MCards and MCard Mobile and decided it didn't suit their needs. Will they look again at whatever date Metro manage to include an adult off-peak ticket, given they're not telling people there are plans to unless they specifically ask?

The MCard app won't even sell me a Metro Weekender. When I ask for one on the bus it slows down boarding while the driver tries to work out which buttons to press. Some have said they've only sold a few in all their years even though they think they're good value for money (which they are, if out for a weekend on different bus operators).

Which illustrates on of the problems; paper tickets are almost universal whereas apps and e-tickets are down to whatever system the TOC/PTE/CA is using.

 

[AM9]

The wording was "norm" not "mandatory".

Well, unless there is a default paper/plastic ticket for those that couldn't conform to the 'norm', it would effectively be mandatory.

 

[Haywain]

Your name and postcode allow me to find your card number.

That’s only the case for a registered smartcard.