Planned 387 and 377 cascades to Southern and Southeastern in 2025

[Doomotron]

This week the first 377/1s entered service with Southeastern, still in the Southern livery but hilariously with the incorrect version of the Southeastern logo used.

 

[43074]

It might be easier to "upgrade" the software on the 9 or so 387s that might want to work with 379s - genuine question ?.
It was so much easier back in the 1960s- 1990s.

Pretty much out of the question as the software side of 387s and 379s run on different operating systems, so even things like the format of audio files for the announcements on the two unit types is different.

A small sub-fleet of 387s ought not to cause any problems among the 379s even if they aren't compatible, bear in mind that the Great Northern "outer" services were run with two smaller fleets of the 317s and 321s alongside 365s for years.

They won't share duties much either, 387s will mostly be on stopping and semi-fast services to Letchworth/Cambridge, whilst 379s will mostly work fast services to Ely and Lynn and the two shouldn't mix as much from December with the new East Coast timetable.

 

[Chiltern006]

This week the first 377/1s entered service with Southeastern, still in the Southern livery but hilariously with the incorrect version of the Southeastern logo used.

I am glad I’m not the only one who noticed this!

Steve White on Xwitter confirmed that they will be going Blue (I don’t know how to link so see screenshot attached)

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Obviously Southern 377/1-4 have just had a software update so the PIS codes now display the information more slowly and in a bolder, larger (much uglier IMO) font. Does anyone know if this remains on the units when used on Southeastern services, or was it part of a software update for Southern PIS codes only?

Aka, has the text reverted to the original fancy narrow writing now it’s on Southeastern duties? I’m fascinated to know. Thanks!

 

[Doomotron]

Obviously Southern 377/1-4 have just had a software update so the PIS codes now display the information more slowly and in a bolder, larger (much uglier IMO) font. Does anyone know if this remains on the units when used on Southeastern services, or was it part of a software update for Southern PIS codes only?

Aka, has the text reverted to the original fancy narrow writing now it’s on Southeastern duties? I’m fascinated to know. Thanks!

Someone in the next few weeks will probably upload a video of the interior, and maybe we'll see some interior photos soon as well. Based on the limited footage available they have had the blue gangway door stickers added and I expect would have had Southern stickers covered over or removed. The screens are still on

I assume that if the PIS has not been updated, there is a good chance the two /1s will only be able to run with each other for the time being.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Someone in the next few weeks will probably upload a video of the interior, and maybe we'll see some interior photos soon as well. Based on the limited footage available they have had the blue gangway door stickers added and I expect would have had Southern stickers covered over or removed. The screens are still on

I assume that if the PIS has not been updated, there is a good chance the two /1s will only be able to run with each other for the time being.

All of the /1s got the update, but I wasn’t sure if it was the data provided by the Southern PIS codes or the physical PIS itself that affected the new font.

 

[physics34]

I am glad I’m not the only one who noticed this!

Steve White on Xwitter confirmed that they will be going Blue (I don’t know how to link so see screenshot attached)

Really not too keen on that dark blue livery. Very dull. The DfT should start making companies implement a GBR interim livery or even the final design.

 

[MrJeeves]

Obviously Southern 377/1-4 have just had a software update so the PIS codes now display the information more slowly and in a bolder, larger (much uglier IMO) font. Does anyone know if this remains on the units when used on Southeastern services, or was it part of a software update for Southern PIS codes only?

Aka, has the text reverted to the original fancy narrow writing now it’s on Southeastern duties? I’m fascinated to know. Thanks!

The Aurora refurb fitted new interiors PIS screens entirely, so the new font is a side effect of the overhaul of the whole PIS system to effectively match that of the 387s and the 378s(?). It's not possible to go back to the old style of text on the new boards -- you'd have to revert all of the PIS equipment changes.

 

[Mikey C]

Really not too keen on that dark blue livery. Very dull. The DfT should start making companies implement a GBR interim livery or even the final design.

Personally I like the SE blue livery, but it is a bit odd that there's been no decision taken over a GBR livery yet. This isn't a complicated, technical issue, requiring expert analysis first, but rather a "quick" hit that can be implemented relatively quickly, like the Network Southeast livery and red lampposts.

 

[gmaguire]

Might as well use up the old logos if they’re being relivered soon.

 

[physics34]

Might as well use up the old logos if they’re being relivered soon.

Exactly. I cant imagine any of the average man or woman on the street noticing. And surely the brand power is not important with the inevitable GBR

Personally I like the SE blue livery, but it is a bit odd that there's been no decision taken over a GBR livery yet. This isn't a complicated, technical issue, requiring expert analysis first, but rather a "quick" hit that can be implemented relatively quickly, like the Network Southeast livery and red lampposts.

I like lines, personal thing... give a sense of motion.. ie go faster stripes. Saying that, there's been alot more gory stripey livery out there compared to just SE blue.

 

[Doomotron]

All of the /1s got the update, but I wasn’t sure if it was the data provided by the Southern PIS codes or the physical PIS itself that affected the new font.

The problem was not the other Southern 377s, it is Southeastern's 377/5s, as they did not receive the same refurbishment the Southern units did.

Might as well use up the old logos if they’re being relivered soon.

I really struggle to believe that they had spare logo decals from probably 10 years ago or more that could be used. The more plausible reason is that an intern sent the wrong logo to the factory to have printed off.



I wouldn't even be surprised if they'd put that logo on them... Although that one can still be seen around the SE network even today.

 

[Mikey C]

I guess we can count our blessings that they didn't emerge with Connex logos on them

 

[callumreecepl]

Hello, I'm so sorry I'm really not caught up with all the threads. But with the Electrostar cascades, when are the next Class 465/466 set to be withdrawn. I know one of each were withdrawn recently.

 

[ScotGG]

Not sure but given south eastern have such limited stabling space can't be long until more of the 465s go to store/scrap as the 377s come over.

 

[Sun Chariot]

1C63 19:39 Portsmouth H to Victoria was today formed of a 387/1. I didn't catch which unit - I was at the railway crossing gates, with bouncy German Shepherd - but the giveaway was the SOUTHERN logos applied to the 387 white bodysides.

 

[PaulJ]

The problem was not the other Southern 377s, it is Southeastern's 377/5s, as they did not receive the same refurbishment the Southern units did.

I really struggle to believe that they had spare logo decals from probably 10 years ago or more that could be used. The more plausible reason is that an intern sent the wrong logo to the factory to have printed off.

View attachment 172136

I wouldn't even be surprised if they'd put that logo on them... Although that one can still be seen around the SE network even today.

When on earth have you seen that old logo?!

 

[LCRTrainfan979]

1C63 19:39 Portsmouth H to Victoria was today formed of a 387/3. I didn't catch which unit - I was at the railway crossing gates, with bouncy German Shepherd - but the giveaway was the SOUTHERN logos applied to the 387/3 white bodysides.

One tip i would give you there would be to aim a tweet at Southern on twitter if you dont catch the unit number, as from personal experience, they do seem like they are quite good at getting numbers. You just need to give them details of where and when you were on the train, and that is normally it.

 

[Chiltern006]

I do wonder if SE will fit screens to the 375s (akin to the 377s)

 

[JonathanH]

1C63 19:39 Portsmouth H to Victoria was today formed of a 387/3. I didn't catch which unit - I was at the railway crossing gates, with bouncy German Shepherd - but the giveaway was the SOUTHERN logos applied to the 387/3 white bodysides.

Are you sure that you saw 1C63, and not the following 1N57 1920 Southampton Central to Brighton, which is more likely to be a 387? 1C63 appears to have coupled normally at Horsham to the Bognor portion.

Not convinced any 387/3s have transferred south. The reported white units are 387123/26-29.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Are you sure that you saw 1C63, and not the following 1N57 1920 Southampton Central to Brighton, which is more likely to be a 387? 1C63 appears to have coupled normally at Horsham to the Bognor portion.

Not convinced any 387/3s have transferred south. The reported white units are 387123/26-29.

It might well have been 1N57, looking at the time that service passed Bedhampton and the time I'd returned home.
And yes, it could just as easily have been one of those white 387/1s.
Annoyingly, Southern doesn't pass its unit numbers with their data fed to .RTT.

 

[Doomotron]

When on earth have you seen that old logo?!

It's in various places around the SE network. There are plenty of whiteboards (or at least that's what I think they are) that have the SET logo on them. Ashford International has at least one, and I know I've seen more at other places. You can still find NSE and Connex colours in various places too - some of the signs on the Eurostar platforms at Ashford have Connex-era signs.

I do wonder if SE will fit screens to the 375s (akin to the 377s)

No. Southern's Electrostar refurbishment has them, but the 375s have already gone through a major refurbishment which didn't include them. The second part of the Class 395 refurbishment will add them (assuming it actually happens), unfortunately replacing the dot matrix displays.

 

[Southern Dvr]

It might well have been 1N57, looking at the time that service passed Bedhampton and the time I'd returned home.
And yes, it could just as easily have been one of those white 387/1s.
Annoyingly, Southern doesn't pass its unit numbers with their data fed to .RTT.

387126 allocated 1N57 on 07/01/2025
377139 allocated 1C63 on 07/01/2025

387301-387306 all still shown as working for GN out of Hornsey.

 

[Sun Chariot]

387126 allocated 1N57 on 07/01/2025
377139 allocated 1C63 on 07/01/2025

387301-387306 all still shown as working for GN out of Hornsey.

Brilliant, thanks. I am certain I saw 1C63 as I wrote past #166 about 20 minutes after I saw the service pass Bedhampton.

@Southern Dvr what source did you use to find those set numbers? Southern doesn't pass that data to Realtime Trains, so I am keen to use another info source. Thanks.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Brilliant, thanks. I am certain I saw 1C63 as I wrote past #166 about 20 minutes after I saw the service pass Bedhampton.

@Southern Dvr what source did you use to find those set numbers? Southern doesn't pass that data to Realtime Trains, so I am keen to use another info source. Thanks.

Just a guess as I don't know, but from the username, I'd hazard a guess at an internal staff software such as TRUST. You'll not be able to access those without staff privileges unfortunately, but GTR have always been one of the kinder Twitter teams in terms of giving numbers at quieter times, so you can often ask them for a number and get it. Be careful not to take advantage though or they'll just automatically reply with "Unfortunately, I don't have that information right now"

 

[Sun Chariot]

Just a guess as I don't know, but from the username, I'd hazard a guess at an internal staff software such as TRUST. You'll not be able to access those without staff privileges unfortunately, but GTR have always been one of the kinder Twitter teams in terms of giving numbers at quieter times, so you can often ask them for a number and get it. Be careful not to take advantage though or they'll just automatically reply with "Unfortunately, I don't have that information right now"

Thanks for the insight.
I "surf" Realtime Trains, for potential photo chances in these south coast parts.
I definitely don't want to bombard Southern's X account with daily requests for 06:00-20:00 allocated units.

 

[Southern Dvr]

@Southern Dvr what source did you use to find those set numbers? Southern doesn't pass that data to Realtime Trains, so I am keen to use another info source. Thanks.

One that I TRUST to be accurate but isn’t available publicly I’m afraid.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

One that I TRUST to be accurate but isn’t available publicly I’m afraid.

 

[nctd2306]

Couldn't ID the unit but I've just seen a white ex GN 387 (with Southern logos) working with a red Gatwick 387 at Clapham Junction, so it looks like the /1s are being used on Gatwick Express services as well as South Coast locals

 

[JonathanH]

Couldn't ID the unit but I've just seen a white ex GN 387 (with Southern logos) working with a red Gatwick 387 at Clapham Junction, so it looks like the /1s are being used on Gatwick Express services as well as South Coast locals

Don't forget that it has been mentioned that there will be some coastway services into London booked for 387s as well as 387s on Gatwick Express - https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...utheastern-in-2025.277465/page-2#post-7056389 - so it might not have been a Gatwick Express service you saw.