Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern

DelW

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Undoubtedly some tough climbs on the Downs, but are they more onerous than the Rhymney line andsay Miles Platting which I believe the Northern ones are (or were) intended to climb when they were to run to Stalybridge. Unsure of the current Northern plan for 769s.
I don't have any information for the Valleys lines, but Victoria to Miles Platting is shorter but steeper - around a mile at 1:59 and 1:47. Would certainly be interesting to see what speed they'd be able to manage on that.
 
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PHILIPE

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I don't have any information for the Valleys lines, but Victoria to Miles Platting is shorter but steeper - around a mile at 1:59 and 1:47. Would certainly be interesting to see what speed they'd be able to manage on that.

You will find quite a lot of performance data on the Rhymney Valley Line in the TFW 769 thread.

www.railforums.co.uk/threads/transport-for-wales-769s.179770/page-46

A long thread so can just browse on the most recent pages
 

AM9

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I don't have any information for the Valleys lines, but Victoria to Miles Platting is shorter but steeper - around a mile at 1:59 and 1:47. Would certainly be interesting to see what speed they'd be able to manage on that.
The 769 trains themselves would probably be able to climb 1:50 gradients, albeit slowly, as in their 319 state, they could start upthe 1:27 ramps in the TL core. They should have about two thirds of the 319 power available for the motors, and even with the increase of the gensets and fuel, the adhesive weight ratio of a 769 with all seats occupied is still less than a crush-loaded 319 as they often ran on TL.
The main issue should boild down to how well the timetable accommodated their lower speeds.
 

The_Train

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Added the ROG units (although I have no idea of their location and current state) and also amended the TfW data for 006 and 008 as per the recent posts
NumberEx No.LiveryTOCDepot/LocationCurrent State
769002319002TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769003319003TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769006319006TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769007319007TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769008319008TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769421319421Ex TL White & Blue DoorsTfWCardiff CantonConverted - awaiting testing
769424319424NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769426319426Ex TL White & Blue DoorsTfWLoughborough WorksUndergoing conversion
769431319431NorthernNorthernAllerton
769434319434NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769442319442NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769445319445Ex TL White & Blue DoorsTfWCardiff CantonConverted - awaiting testing
769448319448NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769450319450NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769452319452TfWTfWCardiff CantonUndergoing testing
769456319456NorthernNorthernLoughborough WorksUndergoing conversion
769458319458NorthernNorthernCrewe Arriva TraincareUndergoing testing
769509319009Ex TL White & Blue DoorsROG
769510319010Ex TL White & Blue DoorsROG
769922319422GWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769923319423GWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769925319425GWR
769927319427GWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769928319428GWRLong MarstonConversion work yet to start
769930319430GWRGWRReading TraincareUndergoing acceptance exam
769932319432GWRLong MarstonConversion work yet to start
769935319435GWRLong MarstonConversion work yet to start
769936319436GWRGWRReading TraincareUndergoing acceptance exam
769937319437GWRLoughborough WorksUndergoing conversion
769938319438GWRLong MarstonConversion work yet to start
769939319439GWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769940319440GWRWolverton WorksUndergoing conversion
769943319443GWRNemesis Rail, BurtonConverted - undergoing maintenance
769944319444GWRDerby RTCConverted - now stored
769946319446GWRGWRNemesis Rail, BurtonConverted - now stored
769947319447GWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769949319449GWRWolverton WorksUndergoing conversion
769959319459GWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start

As for the other ROG units. From what I have read in various magazine articles over the last few days, my understanding is that they plan to keep so many as 319s and run them in formations of 769-319-319 to make 12 car units. When under wires all units will be powered up but when on lines without wires, the 769 will act as a tractor unit for the other 2 units. It appears that ROG are confident that this will work as the lines where they will need the 769 to do the work are relatively low speed and will allow them to maintain line speed.

Not sure how up to date this info is as I didn't really take notice of the dates of the articles (and as we know this project has been around for a while now haha) but this sort of idea makes sense to me. Why spend money on converting all units if you can just use some as hauled stock?
 

edwin_m

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As for the other ROG units. From what I have read in various magazine articles over the last few days, my understanding is that they plan to keep so many as 319s and run them in formations of 769-319-319 to make 12 car units. When under wires all units will be powered up but when on lines without wires, the 769 will act as a tractor unit for the other 2 units. It appears that ROG are confident that this will work as the lines where they will need the 769 to do the work are relatively low speed and will allow them to maintain line speed.

Not sure how up to date this info is as I didn't really take notice of the dates of the articles (and as we know this project has been around for a while now haha) but this sort of idea makes sense to me. Why spend money on converting all units if you can just use some as hauled stock?
I've read that too, probably in one of the same magazines.

I guess they'll have to do some technical work to the remaining 319s so they can be used to switch the 769 between electric and diesel when it's not at the front.
 

plugwash

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29 May 2015
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I guess they'll have to do some technical work to the remaining 319s so they can be used to switch the 769 between electric and diesel when it's not at the front.
How was overhead/third rail switching handled when 319s were in multiple? did both units have to be switched seperately or were signals sent from the front cab to both units?
 

43096

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How was overhead/third rail switching handled when 319s were in multiple? did both units have to be switched seperately or were signals sent from the front cab to both units?
Controlled from the leading cab.
 

Bikeman78

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The Railway Data Centre is a bit confused, - Heath is midway up a 1:50 drag on the graphic byt the figures below show 1:80 and 1:84. From Llanishen to Lisvane & Thornhill, it is 1:77.
Thanks. I looked on there but couldn't find it.
 

The_Train

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Does anyone know if a 769423 exists, or is to exist, or was planned to exist?
I was updating my 319 records the other day and I had a note against 319423 that it was going to be one of the units converted :/
 
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Does anyone know if a 769423 exists, or is to exist, or was planned to exist?
I was updating my 319 records the other day and I had a note against 319423 that it was going to be one of the units converted :/
It won't be 769423.

As it's a GWR one it will become 769923.

I so happen to have got a photo of it in Wolverton Works the the other day. 16th Feb 2021

Here is a tiny snap shot of it.
1613675691290.png
 

Energy

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Just seen this...

View attachment 91163
What's ROG's arrangement now? 10 769s and 319373?

Source cited for this on the 769 wiki is modern railways magazine.

Is there any truth to this?
The rest of the wiki says they have plans for 19 units made up of 9 319s and 10 769s, given the 769 order is for only 5 and no news of it being largened has come, I think the writer may be forgetting the 360s...
 

Bob Price

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8 Aug 2019
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Two 769's in service plus two planned for training. Potentially four on one line. Steps forward, however reliability is still a problem it would seem with 452 failing.
 

The_Train

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Latest updates (from what I have collated together):

NumberEx No.LiveryTOCDepot/LocationCurrent State
769002319002TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769003319003TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769006319006TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769007319007TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769008319008TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769421319421Ex TL White & Blue DoorsTfWCardiff CantonConverted - awaiting testing
769424319424NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769426319426Ex TL White & Blue DoorsTfWLoughborough WorksUndergoing conversion
769431319431NorthernNorthernAllertonConverted - awaiting testing
769434319434NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769442319442NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769445319445Ex TL White & Blue DoorsTfWCardiff CantonConverted - awaiting testing
769448319448NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769450319450NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769452319452TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769456319456NorthernNorthernLoughborough WorksConverted - awaiting testing
769458319458NorthernNorthernCrewe Arriva TraincareUndergoing testing
769509319009Ex TL White & Blue DoorsROGConversion work yet to start
769510319010Ex TL White & Blue DoorsROGConversion work yet to start
769922319422Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769923319423Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769925319425GWRGWRConversion work yet to start
769927319427Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769928319428GWRGWRNemesis Rail, BurtonConverted - awaiting testing
769930319430GWRGWRReading TraincareUndergoing acceptance exam
769932319432Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRLong MarstonConversion work yet to start
769935319435Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRLong MarstonConversion work yet to start
769936319436GWRGWRReading TraincareUndergoing acceptance exam
769937319437GWRGWRLoughborough WorksUndergoing conversion
769938319438Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRLong MarstonConversion work yet to start
769939319439Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769940319440Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksUndergoing conversion
769943319443Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRNemesis Rail, BurtonConverted - undergoing maintenance
769944319444Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRDerby RTCConverted - now stored
769946319446GWRGWRNemesis Rail, BurtonConverted - now stored
769947319447Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769949319449Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksUndergoing conversion
769959319459Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start

I have filled in the gaps on some of the liveries by using my last records of the units when they were 319s - not 100% sure of it being correct now but it is closer to the mark than a blank space ;)
Also, the latest news (that I have) is that 769928 has broken cover as a Class 769, moving from Loughborough to Nemesis Rail at Burton (loco hauled) in the last couple of days.

As ever, if you have more up to date info, let me know and I will amend accordingly :)
 
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Latest updates (from what I have collated together):

I have filled in the gaps on some of the liveries by using my last records of the units when they were 319s - not 100% sure of it being correct now but it is closer to the mark than a blank space ;)
Also, the latest news (that I have) is that 769928 has broken cover as a Class 769, moving from Loughborough to Nemesis Rail at Burton (loco hauled) in the last couple of days.

As ever, if you have more up to date info, let me know and I will amend accordingly :)
Can confirm that 769937 is at Wolverton Works as I saw it today being dragged in by ROG 57312. :D
 

bnsf734

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I think 319423 livery needs updating at it is in GWR livery in the photograph upthread.

Good to see a full list, thanks for producing it.
 

Wyrleybart

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As a matter of interest, I am assuming the majority of Northern 769s are traffic-ready as soon as crew training has been done in sufficient numbers to enter passenger traffic. So the question is - are any Northern 769s still to complete their FFR ?
 

The_Train

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New update with the few changes following input from @221101 Voyager and @jonesy3001 (thanks both):

NumberEx No.LiveryTOCDepot/LocationCurrent State
769002319002TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769003319003TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769006319006TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769007319007TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769008319008TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769421319421Ex TL White & Blue DoorsTfWCardiff CantonConverted - awaiting testing
769424319424NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769426319426Ex TL White & Blue DoorsTfWLoughborough WorksUndergoing conversion
769431319431NorthernNorthernAllertonConverted - awaiting testing
769434319434NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769442319442NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769445319445Ex TL White & Blue DoorsTfWCardiff CantonConverted - awaiting testing
769448319448NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769450319450NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769452319452TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769456319456NorthernNorthernNorth WestUndergoing testing
769458319458NorthernNorthernCrewe Arriva TraincareUndergoing testing
769509319009Ex TL White & Blue DoorsROGConversion work yet to start
769510319010Ex TL White & Blue DoorsROGConversion work yet to start
769922319422Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769923319423GWRGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769925319425GWRGWRConversion work yet to start
769927319427Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769928319428GWRGWRNemesis Rail, BurtonConverted - awaiting testing
769930319430GWRGWRReading TraincareUndergoing acceptance exam
769932319432Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRLong MarstonConversion work yet to start
769935319435Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRLong MarstonConversion work yet to start
769936319436GWRGWRReading TraincareUndergoing acceptance exam
769937319437GWRGWRWolverton WorksConverted - awaiting testing
769938319438Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRLong MarstonConversion work yet to start
769939319439Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769940319440Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksUndergoing conversion
769943319443Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRNemesis Rail, BurtonConverted - undergoing maintenance
769944319444Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRDerby RTCConverted - now stored
769946319446GWRGWRNemesis Rail, BurtonConverted - now stored
769947319447Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769949319449Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksUndergoing conversion
769959319459Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
 

St. Paddy

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Hitchin
New update with the few changes following input from @221101 Voyager and @jonesy3001 (thanks both):

NumberEx No.LiveryTOCDepot/LocationCurrent State
769002319002TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769003319003TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769006319006TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769007319007TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769008319008TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769421319421Ex TL White & Blue DoorsTfWCardiff CantonConverted - awaiting testing
769424319424NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769426319426Ex TL White & Blue DoorsTfWLoughborough WorksUndergoing conversion
769431319431NorthernNorthernAllertonConverted - awaiting testing
769434319434NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769442319442NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769445319445Ex TL White & Blue DoorsTfWCardiff CantonConverted - awaiting testing
769448319448NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769450319450NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769452319452TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769456319456NorthernNorthernNorth WestUndergoing testing
769458319458NorthernNorthernCrewe Arriva TraincareUndergoing testing
769509319009Ex TL White & Blue DoorsROGConversion work yet to start
769510319010Ex TL White & Blue DoorsROGConversion work yet to start
769922319422Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769923319423GWRGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769925319425GWRGWRConversion work yet to start
769927319427Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769928319428GWRGWRNemesis Rail, BurtonConverted - awaiting testing
769930319430GWRGWRReading TraincareUndergoing acceptance exam
769932319432Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRLong MarstonConversion work yet to start
769935319435Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRLong MarstonConversion work yet to start
769936319436GWRGWRReading TraincareUndergoing acceptance exam
769937319437GWRGWRWolverton WorksConverted - awaiting testing
769938319438Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRLong MarstonConversion work yet to start
769939319439Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769940319440Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksUndergoing conversion
769943319443Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRNemesis Rail, BurtonConverted - undergoing maintenance
769944319444Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRDerby RTCConverted - now stored
769946319446GWRGWRNemesis Rail, BurtonConverted - now stored
769947319447Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769949319449Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksUndergoing conversion
769959319459Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
319425 went to Loughborough in August last year according to the GWR 319/769 thread. Hope it helps your list
 

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