Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern

Ribbleman

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12 Jun 2019
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Saw one of these up around Carnforth yesterday. Are they being tested up that way just because there are free paths, or is it for planned service use?

769434 by Mark, on
They've been on testing and driver training runs for some weeks now but for service use they will be used on Southport-Alderley Edge and Southport-Stalybridge from 17th May. The advantage of running them in using diesel power under the wires is that if the engines malfunction the pantograph can be raised to allow the unit to return to Allerton.
 
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mjn

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They've been on testing and driver training runs for some weeks now but for service use they will be used on Southport-Alderley Edge and Southport-Stalybridge from 17th May. The advantage of running them in using diesel power under the wires is that if the engines malfunction the pantograph can be raised to allow the unit to return to Allerton.
Makes sense, thanks for that!
 

py_megapixel

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I see diagrams for the week commencing 17th May have already been posted.
Am I right in saying that the 769s - assuming they don't fail - will be covering every ALD-SOP service in that week, or will there still be Sprinters?

I wouldn't have thought regular passengers are going to notice much if any difference to be honest. Apart from the slightly different style at the front and the fact that they make different noises - not the kind of thing people tend to pay attention to I wouldn't have thought - they feel identical inside to the 150s. I can't really imagine there being as much of a fanfare about them as there was for the 195s or 331s either.
 

peters

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I see diagrams for the week commencing 17th May have already been posted.
Am I right in saying that the 769s - assuming they don't fail - will be covering every ALD-SOP service in that week, or will there still be Sprinters?

In another thread a link to a downloadable zip folder with Northern's May 2021 timetable has been posted: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/northern-150-3.215627/

The answer to your question will be in there somewhere. At first glance it looks like both the 319s and 769s will remain out-of-use on Sundays.
 

507021

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Thanks :)

Here's the updated list including the updates from @FGW_DID and @adc82140

NumberEx No.LiveryTOCDepot/LocationCurrent State
769002319002TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769003319003TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769006319006TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769007319007TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769008319008TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769421319421Ex TL White & Blue DoorsTfWCardiff CantonConverted - awaiting testing
769424319424NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769426319426Ex TL White & Blue DoorsTfWLoughborough WorksUndergoing conversion
769431319431NorthernNorthernAllertonConverted - awaiting testing
769434319434NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769442319442NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769445319445Ex TL White & Blue DoorsTfWCardiff CantonUndergoing testing
769448319448NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769450319450NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769452319452TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769456319456NorthernNorthernNorth WestUndergoing testing
769458319458NorthernNorthernCrewe Arriva TraincareUndergoing testing
769509319009Orion Dark & Light BlueROGEastleigh WorksConversion work yet to start
769510319010Orion Dark & Light BlueROGEastleigh WorksConversion work yet to start
769922319422Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769923319423GWRGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769925319425GWRGWRConversion work yet to start
769927319427Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769928319428GWRGWRNemesis Rail, BurtonConverted - awaiting testing
769930319430GWRGWRReading TraincareUndergoing acceptance exam
769932319432Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRLong MarstonConversion work yet to start
769935319435Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRLong MarstonConversion work yet to start
769936319436GWRGWRLong MarstonConverted - awaiting testing
769937319437GWRGWRWolverton WorksConverted - awaiting testing
769938319438Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRNemesis Rail, BurtonConverted - awaiting testing
769939319439Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769940319440Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksUndergoing conversion
769943319443GWRGWRReading TraincareConverted - awaiting testing
769944319444Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRDerby RTCConverted - now stored
769946319446GWRGWRReading TraincareUndergoing acceptance exam
769947319447Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769949319449Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksUndergoing conversion
769959319459Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
Bold items are the ones I have changed since the last update

769959 has been converted and is now in GWR livery. Unless it's since moved, it's in storage at Burton.

EDIT: 009 to be 769501, 010 to be 769502. Those staying as 319s will be /6, 373 to be 601.
 
Last edited:

The_Train

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769959 has been converted and is now in GWR livery. Unless it's since moved, it's in storage at Burton.

EDIT: 009 to be 769501, 010 to be 769502. Those staying as 319s will be /6, 373 to be 601.
Thanks for that, I will get the list updated and posted out later.
I'm a little bit confused about what you mean with regard to the remaining 319s though? Are you saying that they will be renumbered 319/6?
And just to clarify, 319373 is intended to become 769601? As part of my recent findings, I had ROG/Orion as having 501-510 earmarked for the 769 fleet! As that now changed or are they extending the 769 fleet to 11 from the planned 10?

Thanks
 

Wyrleybart

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343
Location
South Staffordshire
Thanks for that, I will get the list updated and posted out later.
I'm a little bit confused about what you mean with regard to the remaining 319s though? Are you saying that they will be renumbered 319/6?
And just to clarify, 319373 is intended to become 769601? As part of my recent findings, I had ROG/Orion as having 501-510 earmarked for the 769 fleet! As that now changed or are they extending the 769 fleet to 11 from the planned 10?

Thanks
AIUI ROG / Orion are having Bimode class 769s and "trailer" class 319s to operate their new services. I am assuming their "trailer" class 319s which are being numbered 319/6 are to be fitted with engine stop and start controls to operate with their 769s which they will multi with. The plans by Orion which have been publicised are Liverpool St - London Gateway, and Birch Coppice - Scotland. They have already suggested they will use a 769+319 combo on the Liverpool St job, which means the pair of units run under 25kV to the junction for Gateway where they drop their pans and the 769 powers the train on diesel to the terminal.

Similarly, but in reverse, Birch Coppice is on the Kingsbury branch and is unwiredi, the nearest 25kV railheads are Nuneaton and Walsall, so you could assume that a 769 will be multi d with a 319/6 to operate away from the 25kV at either Nuneaton or Walsall and haul or push the 319 to Birch Coppice.

A similar move would presumably be available at DBC Walsall's loading platform in Tasker St yard where the 769 could "tractor" the 319/6 out of the yard and under the wires at Walsall station, assume the Scottish destination is wired.
 
Last edited:

507021

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Location
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Thanks for that, I will get the list updated and posted out later.
I'm a little bit confused about what you mean with regard to the remaining 319s though? Are you saying that they will be renumbered 319/6?
And just to clarify, 319373 is intended to become 769601? As part of my recent findings, I had ROG/Orion as having 501-510 earmarked for the 769 fleet! As that now changed or are they extending the 769 fleet to 11 from the planned 10?

Thanks

No problem.

Just to clear things up with the Orion fleet, there'll be nine 319s (319601-609) and ten 769s (769501-510) overall, with the latter being the "tractor" units as Wyrleybart has said. I think the plan is to operate them in eight and twelve car formations, although I'm happy to be corrected on that.
 

The_Train

Established Member
Joined
2 Jun 2018
Messages
2,795
AIUI ROG / Orion are having Bimode class 769s and "trailer" class 319s to operate their new services. I am assuming their "trailer" class 319s which are being numbered 319/6 are to be fitted with engine stop and start controls to operate with their 769s which they will multi with. The plans by Orion which have been publicised are Liverpool St - London Gateway, and Birch Coppice - Scotland. They have already sugegsted they will use a 769+319 combo on the Liverpool St job, which means the pair of units run under 25kV to the junction for Gateway where they drop their pans and the 769 powers the train on diesel to the terminal.

Similarly, but in reverse, Birch Coppice is on the Kingsbury branch and is unwiredi, the nearest 25kV railheads are Nuneaton and Walsall, so you could assume that a 769 will be multi d with a 319/6 to operate away from the 25kV at either Nuneaton or Walsall and haul or push the 319 to Birch Coppice.

A similar move would presumably be available at DBC Walsall's loading platform in Tasker St yard where the 769 could "tractor" the 319/6 out of the yard and under the wires at Walsall station, assume the Scottish destination is wired.
I believe that all of your assumptions, presumptions and beliefs are correct with everything you have said :)
So we are all in agreement that the 319s will become 319/6's then? I will refrain from any further questions on those as that discussion is probably best had in a 319 thread

Latest list as far as the info I have picked up on here and elsewhere:

NumberEx No.LiveryTOCDepot/LocationCurrent State
769002319002TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769003319003TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769006319006TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769007319007TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769008319008TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769421319421Ex TL White & Blue DoorsTfWCardiff CantonConverted - awaiting testing
769424319424NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769426319426Ex TL White & Blue DoorsTfWLoughborough WorksUndergoing conversion
769431319431NorthernNorthernAllertonConverted - awaiting testing
769434319434NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769442319442NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769445319445Ex TL White & Blue DoorsTfWCardiff CantonUndergoing testing
769448319448NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769450319450NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769452319452TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769456319456NorthernNorthernNorth WestUndergoing testing
769458319458NorthernNorthernCrewe Arriva TraincareUndergoing testing
769501319009Orion Dark & Light BlueROGEastleigh WorksConversion to 769 complete - internal work ongoing
769502319010Orion Dark & Light BlueROGLoughborough WorksUndergoing conversion
769503ROGConversion work yet to start
769504ROGConversion work yet to start
769505ROGConversion work yet to start
769506ROGConversion work yet to start
769507ROGConversion work yet to start
769508ROGConversion work yet to start
769509ROGConversion work yet to start
769510ROGConversion work yet to start
769922319422Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769923319423GWR GreenGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769925319425GWR GreenGWRConversion work yet to start
769927319427Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769928319428GWR GreenGWRNemesis Rail, BurtonConverted - awaiting testing
769930319430GWR GreenGWRReading TraincareUndergoing acceptance exam
769932319432Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRLong MarstonConversion work yet to start
769935319435Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRLong MarstonConversion work yet to start
769936319436GWR GreenGWRLong MarstonConverted - awaiting testing
769937319437GWR GreenGWRWolverton WorksConverted - awaiting testing
769938319438Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRNemesis Rail, BurtonConverted - awaiting testing
769939319439Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769940319440Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksUndergoing conversion
769943319443GWR GreenGWRReading TraincareConverted - awaiting testing
769944319444Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRDerby RTCConverted - now stored
769946319446GWR GreenGWRReading TraincareUndergoing testing
769947319447Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769949319449Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksUndergoing conversion
769959319459GWR GreenGWRNemesis Rail, BurtonConverted - awaiting testing

As always, the bold items are the ones I have updated since the last time I posted a list
 
Last edited:

507021

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19 Feb 2015
Messages
4,187
Location
Liverpool
I believe that all of your assumptions, presumptions and beliefs are correct with everything you have said :)
So we are all in agreement that the 319s will become 319/6's then? I will refrain from any further questions on those as that discussion is probably best had in a 319 thread

Latest list as far as the info I have picked up on here and elsewhere:

NumberEx No.LiveryTOCDepot/LocationCurrent State
769002319002TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769003319003TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769006319006TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769007319007TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769008319008TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769421319421Ex TL White & Blue DoorsTfWCardiff CantonConverted - awaiting testing
769424319424NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769426319426Ex TL White & Blue DoorsTfWLoughborough WorksUndergoing conversion
769431319431NorthernNorthernAllertonConverted - awaiting testing
769434319434NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769442319442NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769445319445Ex TL White & Blue DoorsTfWCardiff CantonUndergoing testing
769448319448NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769450319450NorthernNorthernAllertonUndergoing testing
769452319452TfWTfWCardiff CantonIn Service
769456319456NorthernNorthernNorth WestUndergoing testing
769458319458NorthernNorthernCrewe Arriva TraincareUndergoing testing
769501319009Orion Dark & Light BlueROGEastleigh WorksConversion to 769 complete - internal work ongoing
769502319010Orion Dark & Light BlueROGLoughborough WorksUndergoing conversion
769503ROGConversion work yet to start
769504ROGConversion work yet to start
769505ROGConversion work yet to start
769506ROGConversion work yet to start
769507ROGConversion work yet to start
769508ROGConversion work yet to start
769509ROGConversion work yet to start
769510ROGConversion work yet to start
769922319422Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769923319423GWR GreenGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769925319425GWR GreenGWRConversion work yet to start
769927319427Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769928319428GWR GreenGWRNemesis Rail, BurtonConverted - awaiting testing
769930319430GWR GreenGWRReading TraincareUndergoing acceptance exam
769932319432Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRLong MarstonConversion work yet to start
769935319435Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRLong MarstonConversion work yet to start
769936319436GWR GreenGWRLong MarstonConverted - awaiting testing
769937319437GWR GreenGWRWolverton WorksConverted - awaiting testing
769938319438Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRNemesis Rail, BurtonConverted - awaiting testing
769939319439Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769940319440Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksUndergoing conversion
769943319443GWR GreenGWRReading TraincareConverted - awaiting testing
769944319444Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRDerby RTCConverted - now stored
769946319446GWR GreenGWRReading TraincareUndergoing testing
769947319447Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksConversion work yet to start
769949319449Ex TL White & Blue DoorsGWRWolverton WorksUndergoing conversion
769959319459GWR GreenGWRNemesis Rail, BurtonConverted - awaiting testing

As always, the bold items are the ones I have updated since the last time I posted a list

Just a quick one, 502 has been converted, not sure about 501 though. :)
 

scrapy

Established Member
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15 Dec 2008
Messages
1,455
I see diagrams for the week commencing 17th May have already been posted.
Am I right in saying that the 769s - assuming they don't fail - will be covering every ALD-SOP service in that week, or will there still be Sprinters?

I wouldn't have thought regular passengers are going to notice much if any difference to be honest. Apart from the slightly different style at the front and the fact that they make different noises - not the kind of thing people tend to pay attention to I wouldn't have thought - they feel identical inside to the 150s. I can't really imagine there being as much of a fanfare about them as there was for the 195s or 331s either.
I know that the plan a few weeks ago was to start of with a couple of diagrams as 769s as training would not be fully completed. The 6 LTP diagrams have been produced for the full timetable period and can still be altered with STP diagrams or unit swaps on the day so I think it's unlikely that all diagrams will be 769s from the start. There was talk of some Oxford Rd trips being covered by 769s from 3rd May with a unit being left at Southport to be used on an ad-hoc basis depending on trained crew availability. All these plans were before the damper issues with 195/331s so I'm sure Northerns unit plans have changed since.
 

Ribbleman

Member
Joined
12 Jun 2019
Messages
72
I know that the plan a few weeks ago was to start of with a couple of diagrams as 769s as training would not be fully completed. The 6 LTP diagrams have been produced for the full timetable period and can still be altered with STP diagrams or unit swaps on the day so I think it's unlikely that all diagrams will be 769s from the start. There was talk of some Oxford Rd trips being covered by 769s from 3rd May with a unit being left at Southport to be used on an ad-hoc basis depending on trained crew availability. All these plans were before the damper issues with 195/331s so I'm sure Northerns unit plans have changed since.
Have ASLEF’s issues with cab cooling on the Northern 769s been resolved and measures implemented or is this still to be sorted out?
 

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