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They've been on testing and driver training runs for some weeks now but for service use they will be used on Southport-Alderley Edge and Southport-Stalybridge from 17th May. The advantage of running them in using diesel power under the wires is that if the engines malfunction the pantograph can be raised to allow the unit to return to Allerton.
They've been on testing and driver training runs for some weeks now but for service use they will be used on Southport-Alderley Edge and Southport-Stalybridge from 17th May. The advantage of running them in using diesel power under the wires is that if the engines malfunction the pantograph can be raised to allow the unit to return to Allerton.
I see diagrams for the week commencing 17th May have already been posted.
Am I right in saying that the 769s - assuming they don't fail - will be covering every ALD-SOP service in that week, or will there still be Sprinters?
I wouldn't have thought regular passengers are going to notice much if any difference to be honest. Apart from the slightly different style at the front and the fact that they make different noises - not the kind of thing people tend to pay attention to I wouldn't have thought - they feel identical inside to the 150s. I can't really imagine there being as much of a fanfare about them as there was for the 195s or 331s either.
I see diagrams for the week commencing 17th May have already been posted.
Am I right in saying that the 769s - assuming they don't fail - will be covering every ALD-SOP service in that week, or will there still be Sprinters?
Thanks for that, I will get the list updated and posted out later.
I'm a little bit confused about what you mean with regard to the remaining 319s though? Are you saying that they will be renumbered 319/6?
And just to clarify, 319373 is intended to become 769601? As part of my recent findings, I had ROG/Orion as having 501-510 earmarked for the 769 fleet! As that now changed or are they extending the 769 fleet to 11 from the planned 10?
Thanks for that, I will get the list updated and posted out later.
I'm a little bit confused about what you mean with regard to the remaining 319s though? Are you saying that they will be renumbered 319/6?
And just to clarify, 319373 is intended to become 769601? As part of my recent findings, I had ROG/Orion as having 501-510 earmarked for the 769 fleet! As that now changed or are they extending the 769 fleet to 11 from the planned 10?
AIUI ROG / Orion are having Bimode class 769s and "trailer" class 319s to operate their new services. I am assuming their "trailer" class 319s which are being numbered 319/6 are to be fitted with engine stop and start controls to operate with their 769s which they will multi with. The plans by Orion which have been publicised are Liverpool St - London Gateway, and Birch Coppice - Scotland. They have already suggested they will use a 769+319 combo on the Liverpool St job, which means the pair of units run under 25kV to the junction for Gateway where they drop their pans and the 769 powers the train on diesel to the terminal.
Similarly, but in reverse, Birch Coppice is on the Kingsbury branch and is unwiredi, the nearest 25kV railheads are Nuneaton and Walsall, so you could assume that a 769 will be multi d with a 319/6 to operate away from the 25kV at either Nuneaton or Walsall and haul or push the 319 to Birch Coppice.
A similar move would presumably be available at DBC Walsall's loading platform in Tasker St yard where the 769 could "tractor" the 319/6 out of the yard and under the wires at Walsall station, assume the Scottish destination is wired.
Thanks for that, I will get the list updated and posted out later.
I'm a little bit confused about what you mean with regard to the remaining 319s though? Are you saying that they will be renumbered 319/6?
And just to clarify, 319373 is intended to become 769601? As part of my recent findings, I had ROG/Orion as having 501-510 earmarked for the 769 fleet! As that now changed or are they extending the 769 fleet to 11 from the planned 10?
Just to clear things up with the Orion fleet, there'll be nine 319s (319601-609) and ten 769s (769501-510) overall, with the latter being the "tractor" units as Wyrleybart has said. I think the plan is to operate them in eight and twelve car formations, although I'm happy to be corrected on that.
AIUI ROG / Orion are having Bimode class 769s and "trailer" class 319s to operate their new services. I am assuming their "trailer" class 319s which are being numbered 319/6 are to be fitted with engine stop and start controls to operate with their 769s which they will multi with. The plans by Orion which have been publicised are Liverpool St - London Gateway, and Birch Coppice - Scotland. They have already sugegsted they will use a 769+319 combo on the Liverpool St job, which means the pair of units run under 25kV to the junction for Gateway where they drop their pans and the 769 powers the train on diesel to the terminal.
Similarly, but in reverse, Birch Coppice is on the Kingsbury branch and is unwiredi, the nearest 25kV railheads are Nuneaton and Walsall, so you could assume that a 769 will be multi d with a 319/6 to operate away from the 25kV at either Nuneaton or Walsall and haul or push the 319 to Birch Coppice.
A similar move would presumably be available at DBC Walsall's loading platform in Tasker St yard where the 769 could "tractor" the 319/6 out of the yard and under the wires at Walsall station, assume the Scottish destination is wired.
I believe that all of your assumptions, presumptions and beliefs are correct with everything you have said
So we are all in agreement that the 319s will become 319/6's then? I will refrain from any further questions on those as that discussion is probably best had in a 319 thread
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Latest list as far as the info I have picked up on here and elsewhere:
Number
Ex No.
Livery
TOC
Depot/Location
Current State
769002
319002
TfW
TfW
Cardiff Canton
In Service
769003
319003
TfW
TfW
Cardiff Canton
In Service
769006
319006
TfW
TfW
Cardiff Canton
In Service
769007
319007
TfW
TfW
Cardiff Canton
In Service
769008
319008
TfW
TfW
Cardiff Canton
In Service
769421
319421
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
TfW
Cardiff Canton
Converted - awaiting testing
769424
319424
Northern
Northern
Allerton
Undergoing testing
769426
319426
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
TfW
Loughborough Works
Undergoing conversion
769431
319431
Northern
Northern
Allerton
Converted - awaiting testing
769434
319434
Northern
Northern
Allerton
Undergoing testing
769442
319442
Northern
Northern
Allerton
Undergoing testing
769445
319445
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
TfW
Cardiff Canton
Undergoing testing
769448
319448
Northern
Northern
Allerton
Undergoing testing
769450
319450
Northern
Northern
Allerton
Undergoing testing
769452
319452
TfW
TfW
Cardiff Canton
In Service
769456
319456
Northern
Northern
North West
Undergoing testing
769458
319458
Northern
Northern
Crewe Arriva Traincare
Undergoing testing
769501
319009
Orion Dark & Light Blue
ROG
Eastleigh Works
Conversion to 769 complete - internal work ongoing
769502
319010
Orion Dark & Light Blue
ROG
Loughborough Works
Undergoing conversion
769503
ROG
Conversion work yet to start
769504
ROG
Conversion work yet to start
769505
ROG
Conversion work yet to start
769506
ROG
Conversion work yet to start
769507
ROG
Conversion work yet to start
769508
ROG
Conversion work yet to start
769509
ROG
Conversion work yet to start
769510
ROG
Conversion work yet to start
769922
319422
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
GWR
Wolverton Works
Conversion work yet to start
769923
319423
GWR Green
GWR
Wolverton Works
Conversion work yet to start
769925
319425
GWR Green
GWR
Conversion work yet to start
769927
319427
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
GWR
Wolverton Works
Conversion work yet to start
769928
319428
GWR Green
GWR
Nemesis Rail, Burton
Converted - awaiting testing
769930
319430
GWR Green
GWR
Reading Traincare
Undergoing acceptance exam
769932
319432
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
GWR
Long Marston
Conversion work yet to start
769935
319435
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
GWR
Long Marston
Conversion work yet to start
769936
319436
GWR Green
GWR
Long Marston
Converted - awaiting testing
769937
319437
GWR Green
GWR
Wolverton Works
Converted - awaiting testing
769938
319438
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
GWR
Nemesis Rail, Burton
Converted - awaiting testing
769939
319439
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
GWR
Wolverton Works
Conversion work yet to start
769940
319440
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
GWR
Wolverton Works
Undergoing conversion
769943
319443
GWR Green
GWR
Reading Traincare
Converted - awaiting testing
769944
319444
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
GWR
Derby RTC
Converted - now stored
769946
319446
GWR Green
GWR
Reading Traincare
Undergoing testing
769947
319447
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
GWR
Wolverton Works
Conversion work yet to start
769949
319449
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
GWR
Wolverton Works
Undergoing conversion
769959
319459
GWR Green
GWR
Nemesis Rail, Burton
Converted - awaiting testing
As always, the bold items are the ones I have updated since the last time I posted a list
I believe that all of your assumptions, presumptions and beliefs are correct with everything you have said
So we are all in agreement that the 319s will become 319/6's then? I will refrain from any further questions on those as that discussion is probably best had in a 319 thread
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Latest list as far as the info I have picked up on here and elsewhere:
Number
Ex No.
Livery
TOC
Depot/Location
Current State
769002
319002
TfW
TfW
Cardiff Canton
In Service
769003
319003
TfW
TfW
Cardiff Canton
In Service
769006
319006
TfW
TfW
Cardiff Canton
In Service
769007
319007
TfW
TfW
Cardiff Canton
In Service
769008
319008
TfW
TfW
Cardiff Canton
In Service
769421
319421
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
TfW
Cardiff Canton
Converted - awaiting testing
769424
319424
Northern
Northern
Allerton
Undergoing testing
769426
319426
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
TfW
Loughborough Works
Undergoing conversion
769431
319431
Northern
Northern
Allerton
Converted - awaiting testing
769434
319434
Northern
Northern
Allerton
Undergoing testing
769442
319442
Northern
Northern
Allerton
Undergoing testing
769445
319445
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
TfW
Cardiff Canton
Undergoing testing
769448
319448
Northern
Northern
Allerton
Undergoing testing
769450
319450
Northern
Northern
Allerton
Undergoing testing
769452
319452
TfW
TfW
Cardiff Canton
In Service
769456
319456
Northern
Northern
North West
Undergoing testing
769458
319458
Northern
Northern
Crewe Arriva Traincare
Undergoing testing
769501
319009
Orion Dark & Light Blue
ROG
Eastleigh Works
Conversion to 769 complete - internal work ongoing
769502
319010
Orion Dark & Light Blue
ROG
Loughborough Works
Undergoing conversion
769503
ROG
Conversion work yet to start
769504
ROG
Conversion work yet to start
769505
ROG
Conversion work yet to start
769506
ROG
Conversion work yet to start
769507
ROG
Conversion work yet to start
769508
ROG
Conversion work yet to start
769509
ROG
Conversion work yet to start
769510
ROG
Conversion work yet to start
769922
319422
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
GWR
Wolverton Works
Conversion work yet to start
769923
319423
GWR Green
GWR
Wolverton Works
Conversion work yet to start
769925
319425
GWR Green
GWR
Conversion work yet to start
769927
319427
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
GWR
Wolverton Works
Conversion work yet to start
769928
319428
GWR Green
GWR
Nemesis Rail, Burton
Converted - awaiting testing
769930
319430
GWR Green
GWR
Reading Traincare
Undergoing acceptance exam
769932
319432
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
GWR
Long Marston
Conversion work yet to start
769935
319435
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
GWR
Long Marston
Conversion work yet to start
769936
319436
GWR Green
GWR
Long Marston
Converted - awaiting testing
769937
319437
GWR Green
GWR
Wolverton Works
Converted - awaiting testing
769938
319438
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
GWR
Nemesis Rail, Burton
Converted - awaiting testing
769939
319439
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
GWR
Wolverton Works
Conversion work yet to start
769940
319440
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
GWR
Wolverton Works
Undergoing conversion
769943
319443
GWR Green
GWR
Reading Traincare
Converted - awaiting testing
769944
319444
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
GWR
Derby RTC
Converted - now stored
769946
319446
GWR Green
GWR
Reading Traincare
Undergoing testing
769947
319447
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
GWR
Wolverton Works
Conversion work yet to start
769949
319449
Ex TL White & Blue Doors
GWR
Wolverton Works
Undergoing conversion
769959
319459
GWR Green
GWR
Nemesis Rail, Burton
Converted - awaiting testing
As always, the bold items are the ones I have updated since the last time I posted a list
AIUI ROG / Orion are having Bimode class 769s and "trailer" class 319s to operate their new services. I am assuming their "trailer" class 319s which are being numbered 319/6 are to be fitted with engine stop and start controls to operate with their 769s which they will multi with. The plans by Orion which have been publicised are Liverpool St - London Gateway, and Birch Coppice - Scotland. They have already suggested they will use a 769+319 combo on the Liverpool St job, which means the pair of units run under 25kV to the junction for Gateway where they drop their pans and the 769 powers the train on diesel to the terminal.
Similarly, but in reverse, Birch Coppice is on the Kingsbury branch and is unwiredi, the nearest 25kV railheads are Nuneaton and Walsall, so you could assume that a 769 will be multi d with a 319/6 to operate away from the 25kV at either Nuneaton or Walsall and haul or push the 319 to Birch Coppice.
A similar move would presumably be available at DBC Walsall's loading platform in Tasker St yard where the 769 could "tractor" the 319/6 out of the yard and under the wires at Walsall station, assume the Scottish destination is wired.
I see diagrams for the week commencing 17th May have already been posted.
Am I right in saying that the 769s - assuming they don't fail - will be covering every ALD-SOP service in that week, or will there still be Sprinters?
I wouldn't have thought regular passengers are going to notice much if any difference to be honest. Apart from the slightly different style at the front and the fact that they make different noises - not the kind of thing people tend to pay attention to I wouldn't have thought - they feel identical inside to the 150s. I can't really imagine there being as much of a fanfare about them as there was for the 195s or 331s either.
I know that the plan a few weeks ago was to start of with a couple of diagrams as 769s as training would not be fully completed. The 6 LTP diagrams have been produced for the full timetable period and can still be altered with STP diagrams or unit swaps on the day so I think it's unlikely that all diagrams will be 769s from the start. There was talk of some Oxford Rd trips being covered by 769s from 3rd May with a unit being left at Southport to be used on an ad-hoc basis depending on trained crew availability. All these plans were before the damper issues with 195/331s so I'm sure Northerns unit plans have changed since.
I know that the plan a few weeks ago was to start of with a couple of diagrams as 769s as training would not be fully completed. The 6 LTP diagrams have been produced for the full timetable period and can still be altered with STP diagrams or unit swaps on the day so I think it's unlikely that all diagrams will be 769s from the start. There was talk of some Oxford Rd trips being covered by 769s from 3rd May with a unit being left at Southport to be used on an ad-hoc basis depending on trained crew availability. All these plans were before the damper issues with 195/331s so I'm sure Northerns unit plans have changed since.
Think I mentioned this fairly recently but here goes ;
The two operations announced so far are London Liverpool St to London Gateway, and Birch Coppice to somewhere in Scotland. The Gateway operation is planned for a 769+319 combo, and I assume both run under 25kV as far as Thames Haven Jn. I am assuming Orion / ROG will have authorisation for the driver to lower the pantographs on both units, having flashed up the diesels on the 769, ready for the journey down the branch to London Gateway (formerly Thames Haven). I have no idea of the linespeed but I imagine the 100mph AC capability is in excess of the linespeed
Regarding the Birch Coppice operation on the Kingsbury branch, I am guessing a slow speed line similar to London Gateway from Thames Haven Jn, where the 769 will have enough oomph to push or pull the unpowered 319 out onto the "slow lines" from Kingsbury South Junction to Whitacre Jn, then either reverse and head to Nuneaton on a line substantially less than 100mph - maybe 75 or 80mph. At Nuneaton the pans go up and it is happy days. Alternatively the combo turn right at Water Orton and continue at a sedate pace via Sutton Park to Walsall where again, the pans go up.
Think I mentioned this fairly recently but here goes ;
The two operations announced so far are London Liverpool St to London Gateway, and Birch Coppice to somewhere in Scotland. The Gateway operation is planned for a 769+319 combo, and I assume both run under 25kV as far as Thames Haven Jn. I am assuming Orion / ROG will have authorisation for the driver to lower the pantographs on both units, having flashed up the diesels on the 769, ready for the journey down the branch to London Gateway (formerly Thames Haven). I have no idea of the linespeed but I imagine the 100mph AC capability is in excess of the linespeed
Regarding the Birch Coppice operation on the Kingsbury branch, I am guessing a slow speed line similar to London Gateway from Thames Haven Jn, where the 769 will have enough oomph to push or pull the unpowered 319 out onto the "slow lines" from Kingsbury South Junction to Whitacre Jn, then either reverse and head to Nuneaton on a line substantially less than 100mph - maybe 75 or 80mph. At Nuneaton the pans go up and it is happy days. Alternatively the combo turn right at Water Orton and continue at a sedate pace via Sutton Park to Walsall where again, the pans go up.
The speed limit from Thames Haven Jct. to the end of the Network Rail boundary is 25 mph, & 15 mph in the port area. (Data taken from Network Rail AR Sectional Appendix, REf. EA 1420 001 AR2.) Google is your friend.......
The speed limit from Thames Haven Jct. to the end of the Network Rail boundary is 25 mph, & 15 mph in the port area. (Data taken from Network Rail AR Sectional Appendix, REf. EA 1420 001 AR2.) Google is your friend.......
Current plan is all the Southport - Alderley Edge and just one diagram on Southport - Staly.
All subject to change a) under the shifting sands of the May timetable train plan (minus some new trains) and b) driver acceptance
Passed Hindley 5 mins late, most of it lost between Southport and Parbold.
Made up all the loss during the longer run from Kearsley to Salford Crescent under the wires.
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