Ashley Hill
Established Member
Clip the wires both ends of the damaged section and at least run IETs on diesel until a weekend possession can be arranged for repairs.
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Possible disruption 19th September?
- Thread starter trainophile
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
I'd like to get back from Three Bridges / Gatwick to Bristol this eve - I can get the North Downs to Reading, but does anyone know what the situation at Reading is like for heading further west?
I've seen ticket acceptance is in place for Southern, but I'm assuming it doesn't stretch to getting back via Barnham / Southampton. Ticket is return half of super-off peak via London.
I've seen ticket acceptance is in place for Southern, but I'm assuming it doesn't stretch to getting back via Barnham / Southampton. Ticket is return half of super-off peak via London.
It's only Monday and the majority of services on that section are formed of electric stock other than IET's. You can't patch it up until the weekend.
Its unfortunate almost the same thing happened in the middle of last week on the GEML. Took out 1000m of wire, a decent number of registration arms and damaged one of the stanchions. That took 36 hours to reopen and wasn't as bad as this sounds.
cactustwirly
Established Member
It was upgraded as part of the electrification program, NR replaced the headspans with new arms in several overnight possessions.
It's not rocket science, the OLE is literally metal posts with a bit of wire attached.
I'm struggling to understand what is difficult in replacing it.
You'd think with all the disruption NR would be focusing it's London resources on the area.
If it's only a handful of engineers then of course it would take ages.
I don't understand how a few miles of new electrification can be installed in an overnight possession, but repairing an existing structure takes a whole day.
If trains are running westwards from West Drayton, underground to Uxbridge and bus to West Drayton is another option.
Thanks for clarifying.
cactustwirly
Established Member
Please clarify further for me why it takes days to repair a simple structure of a pole and a wire?
It is not a laughing matter, it has disrupted thousands of people and probably cost millions in compensation and lost time
It's been repeatedly clarified upthread.
AlexNL
Established Member
- Joined
- 19 Dec 2014
- Messages
- 1,683
One look at Google Streetview, for example on the A312 facing east or the A3005 facing west, shows you footage no less than a month old where you can easily see the headspans.
cactustwirly
Established Member
Not very well evidently
TSG
Member
That's actually pretty simple. The planning for a possession to renew large amounts of any type of infrastructure may start a couple of years out. The work is fully scoped and understood. All the plant, staff, materials and access are in place. With large scale infrastructure damage you do that 2 years of preparation on the fly and do the job with whatever you can scrape together. Just getting the materials to site could take longer than an overnight possession. I doubt there's miles of contact wire just lying about by every station.
It's still a headspan area, not all were replaced during crossrail upgrades.
I haven't seen photos, but what it sounds like talking with colleagues who have been on shift today is that the IET has struck some already damaged (unknown cause) registration equipment at full speed, and the pan has pulled down the whole headspan. The loss of tension then cause wires to get wrapped around the Pan of an EL 345 on the Down Relief, which has then pulled down everything at a second headspan.
I haven't seen photos, but what it sounds like talking with colleagues who have been on shift today is that the IET has struck some already damaged (unknown cause) registration equipment at full speed, and the pan has pulled down the whole headspan. The loss of tension then cause wires to get wrapped around the Pan of an EL 345 on the Down Relief, which has then pulled down everything at a second headspan.
Ashley Hill
Established Member
This is what happens when you put all of your eggs in one basket. Perhaps this should be put in the thread “How did BR cope with disruption?” .
DanNCL
Established Member
I love how some people here are very quick to defend what would be considered in any other industry to be incompetence - whatever the contingency was for today it clearly hasn't worked, and for the fare paying customer it simply isn't good enough.
Something I have noticed, although this may be coincidence, is that this type of incident seems to take longer to sort out when an 80x is involved. I seem to recall an incident in Northumberland on the ECML with an 801 a couple of years ago took twice as long to clear up than a near identical incident a few miles away with a 91 a few years prior, but I may be misremembering.
Something I have noticed, although this may be coincidence, is that this type of incident seems to take longer to sort out when an 80x is involved. I seem to recall an incident in Northumberland on the ECML with an 801 a couple of years ago took twice as long to clear up than a near identical incident a few miles away with a 91 a few years prior, but I may be misremembering.
Thanks - I was more wondering what the likely queue time to get on a train west would be. I'd imagine everything leaving will be crush loaded, and my elbows aren't as sharp as they used to be. At least I have the relative luxury of postponing till tomorrow.
ANDREW_D_WEBB
Member
- Joined
- 21 Aug 2013
- Messages
- 869
I do wonder if all trains had the same coupling it might help. Acton Yard had several locos stabled on it at the weekend yet the rescue locos have probably had to be sourced from elsewhere as what they are recovering has specialist couplings. Even if it only meant that the IETs could use their diesel capability to slowly shift stranded electric only stock to the nearest platform for detraining.
It's not a simple structure of wire and a pole though is it? It carries 25kV and if there's any defect in it is more than capable of killing in a heartbeat. On top of that when the wires come down they often damage other electrical/signalling equipment too. They're also up in the air and it's not exactly a case of a bloke reeling out a drum of cable as he trundles along on foot.
Rewiring a plug it isn't.
Okay but there is still multiple electric stock on the route, with damaged pantographs and they need recovery. You also have a significant area that needs repairs.
Some lines might be open for diesel operation but that still means no or practically no intermediate service for those stations between Paddington and Reading nor Heathrow at all until that is confirme safe.
In this case, if it was only 80x it wouldn't have been anywhere near as bad. Most of the problem is 387s stuck in the way.
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
This sort of incident is an almost weekly occurrence on the East Coast Main Line. I’m surprised it’s not happened there, rather than on the Great Western. Trains seem to be running in and out of Cardiff alright though.
I wonder if the fact it’s quicker with a 91 might be down to it being a separate locomotive to the carriages, with the pantograph included in that locomotive.
I was thinking this exactly. I fail to see the need to be sarcastic and condescending when not all of us have the time to track through hundreds of posts. It must take surely no more effort to just answer a question, rather than think of a clever retort.
I must echo these sentiments. You only have to read the instant “do you want to try doing it then” or “I suppose you could do better” whenever genuine incompetence is brought to light. However, I do think the ticket acceptance with other operators today has been very good and helpful.
I wonder if the fact it’s quicker with a 91 might be down to it being a separate locomotive to the carriages, with the pantograph included in that locomotive.
Is it a simple structure of a pole and wire? Sounds like headspans to me, which is a lot more complicated - and the damage is along a significant distance.
Because you're comparing apples with oranges. And I haven't seen miles of OHLE spring up overnight!
What do you consider to be contingency? The line is blocked, multiple electric trains stranded and pantographs damaged and several miles of overhead line repairs needed.
Under such an extreme (and it is extreme) scenario you can’t ever run diesel trains until the stranded trains are evacuated (which they were after a few hours) & moved clear of the lines (requiring multiple resucue locomotives or extreme methods of operation at several locations). Don’t think any contingency plan can deal with this in total other then the normal one initiated; it is a full 4 line block with trains to terminate at Reading and SWR services from there and a shuttle as far as is possible (which appears to be West Drayton).
Simply unable to see or accept how it is incompetence; hundreds of people are directly working flat-out to get this resolved.
Debatable, surely?
There's ticket acceptance on Chiltern/SWR/XC and others, and Reading/Oxford are termini for GWR to terminate and onwards to London via other TOCs. There's significant crowd control and barriers at Reading, but it's actually
Trains to the west are departing Reading.
Seems like a pretty good contingency plan, working as well as it can given the circumstances.
Attachments
Last edited:
They are indeed headspans.
Western Sunset
Established Member
I hope this incident gives Network Rail the impetus to replace the headspans remaining between Padd and Airport Jn ASAP.
I thought they'd planned to do this, but obviously they haven't completed the upgrade.
When the line was first electrified, it was just HEX units using the wires. But with the intro of IETs, 387s and, more recently, Lizzie Line units, it's used much more intensively now.
Ideally, the removal of headspans should've happened before the Lizzie Line opened, so as to provide separate independent wiring and structures for the main lines and the reliefs.
I thought they'd planned to do this, but obviously they haven't completed the upgrade.
When the line was first electrified, it was just HEX units using the wires. But with the intro of IETs, 387s and, more recently, Lizzie Line units, it's used much more intensively now.
Ideally, the removal of headspans should've happened before the Lizzie Line opened, so as to provide separate independent wiring and structures for the main lines and the reliefs.
Eh? The vast majority of electrified routes in London & SE are run with 100% electric stock. No third rail or OLE = no trains.
And how did BR deal with it? Well they probably had more spare locos available. and in BR times it was all diesel stock in and out Paddington; now it is zero.
danielcanning
On Moderation
This incident just shows how shockingly incompetent Network Rail are. I can’t believe that several miles of overhead lines would suddenly collapse with no warning, why isn’t the infrastructure being checked on a regular basis?
- Status