Progress on Avanti West Coast's 805/807s Hitachi AT300 sets

[hexagon789]

But they will be travelling faster than other non-tilt stock on the WCML, so presumably have a different clearance profile over 110mph.

I understand the differentials will be MU, so in the future anything capable of over 110mph and permitted to use MU differentials could exceed 110 where permitted.

(MU applies to HSTs as one example.)

 

[HarryL]

Do we have an idea of what the First Class/Standard Premium seats will look like given on the Pendolinos, they're modified versions of the old. Presumably they'll have had to pick totally new designs.

[Edit] Apologies, I appear to have missed the conversation talking about exactly this! Whoops.

 

[800001]

Avanti class 805001 is on the move as 5Q61 Hitachi Merchant Park to Old Dalby today.

 

[Nottingham59]

Pic of the interior

 

[Halish Railway]

Pic of the interior

What’s the orange presumably on the side of the train? Have they started receiving vinyls already?

 

[Nottingham59]

What’s the orange

It's just the sodium street lights at Melton Station. The exterior was factory grey.

 

[dereksingh291]

Pic of the interior

What does the first/standard premium interior look like?

 

[800001]

What does the first/standard premium interior look like?

The same as a pendo, as it’s the same seats.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The same as a pendo, as it’s the same seats.

Where did they get them from? Antolin-Laire don’t make them anymore.

 

[DanNCL]

The same as a pendo, as it’s the same seats.

That disproves the previous claims by many that older seat designs don’t meet fire specifications for new trains then, as the design in First is over 20 years old!

Where did they get them from? Antolin-Laire don’t make them anymore.

There’s plenty of them left over from the Coach G conversions on the 390s, likely enough to fit the relatively small fleet of 80xs that Avanti are getting.

 

[Nottingham59]

What does the first/standard premium interior look like?

There were no seats fitted in one of the end cars. Presumably that's where first class will be. You can see this at 3m15s in this video (not mine: credit to GeorgeTrains on YouTube):

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

There’s plenty of them left over from the Coach G conversions on the 390s, likely enough to fit the relatively small fleet of 80xs that Avanti are getting.

The seats in a single 23m carriage from thirty-five Pendolinos is not going to be enough for thirty-three trains of which the 7 cars (26m) will likely have at least 2 carriages of first and the 5 cars (also 26m) will very probably have around 1 and a half.

There were no seats fitted in one of the end cars. Presumably that's where first class will be. You can see this at 3m15s in this video (not mine: credit to GeorgeTrains on YouTube):

@800001 said he’s seen them fitted with the same seats as 390s though, hence the confusion as they’re not made anymore.

 

[TheHolyGrayl]

Pic of the interior

It looks a bit dull inside compared to other operators’ 80x, I think it could do with a bit of colour like LNER’s…

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It looks a bit dull inside compared to other operators’ 80x, I think it could do with a bit of colour like LNER’s…

Nothing could be as dull as TransPennine’s are, but I agree it’s bland, especially compared to a Pendolino.

 

[DanNCL]

The seats in a single 23m carriage from thirty-five Pendolinos is not going to be enough for thirty-three trains of which the 7 cars (26m) will likely have at least 2 carriages of first and the 5 cars (also 26m) will very probably have around 1 and a half.

It’s 56 390s not 35. 390 vehicles are 24m so only 2m shorter than that of an 80x, and have less crumple zone space than an 80x, so the capacity difference per carriage between the two won’t be as much as say between an 80x vehicle and a Mark 4. I think you’re overestimating how much first class these units are likely to have too. There’s little chance of a 7-car 807 having as much first class as a 9-car 802. Also remember that the driving carriages have a kitchen, wheelchair spaces and a universal access toilet, so are in terms of seat numbers half a carriage at most.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It’s 56 390s not 35. 390 vehicles are 24m so only 2m shorter than that of an 80x, and have less crumple zone space than an 80x, so the capacity difference per carriage between the two won’t be as much as say between an 80x vehicle and a Mark 4. I think you’re overestimating how much first class these units are likely to have too. There’s little chance of a 7-car 807 having as much first class as a 9-car 802. Also remember that the driving carriages have a kitchen, wheelchair spaces and a universal access toilet, so are in terms of seat numbers half a carriage at most.

I know how many 390s there are; is it not only the 11 cars having first removed as the 9s already have done?

 

[Bletchleyite]

If they are able to fit used seats from Pendolinos, this is going to make them look rather bad for binning all those Grammers and leather armchairs from the GWR HSTs...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The seats in a single 23m carriage from thirty-five Pendolinos is not going to be enough for thirty-three trains of which the 7 cars (26m) will likely have at least 2 carriages of first and the 5 cars (also 26m) will very probably have around 1 and a half.

There are only 23 Avanti 80x, 13x805 and 10x807.

 

[DanNCL]

I know how many 390s there are; is it not only the 11 cars having first removed as the 9s already have done?

It’s not inconceivable that the seats may have been kept when the 9s were converted.

 

[superalbs]

There were no seats fitted in one of the end cars. Presumably that's where first class will be. You can see this at 3m15s in this video (not mine: credit to GeorgeTrains on YouTube):

Wow, so that's only half a carriage of first class on the five cars!

I guess that also means no standard premium on the five cars.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

The 805s are a fleet of thirteen 5-car bi-mode to replace the 221s on Euston-North Wales & Shrewsbury

The 807s are a fleet of ten 7-car straight electrics for Euston-Birmingham/Liverpool/Blackpool

Both fleets replace the Class 221s

These 7 cars units are shorter than the current 9 and 11 units, seems a bit odd.

 

[DanNCL]

These 7 cars units are shorter than the current 9 and 11 units, seems a bit odd.

It works out similar in capacity terms, as each carriage on an 807 will hold more passengers than that of a 390.

807s aren’t expected to run anything that’s currently ran by an 11 car 390.

 

[hexagon789]

These 7 cars units are shorter than the current 9 and 11 units, seems a bit odd.

They are primarily replacing Super Voyagers though and adding extra capacity - they arent replacing any 390s.

Also 80x have longer carriages and are more space efficient than either 221s or 390s, so as DanNCL also touched on above - they have greater capacity.

 

[dereksingh291]

Any idea where the AWC Class 221s will go to when the 805/807s replace them but also when are the 805/807s entering service?

 

[swt_passenger]

Any idea where the AWC Class 221s will go to when the 805/807s replace them.

Has been asked numerous times in various specific threads about the subject, but there’s never been any formal statement. This speculation thread is coming up to 2 years old:

Avanti West Coast Class 221 to CrossCountry

It was a 221 and rammed just after 5am on Saturday morning, 5 coaches aren't enough. Absolutely agree. For the first time since before the summer I observed a number of services on the Birmingham to Reading line (including some Chiltern services Birmingham to Marylebone). On both Thursday and...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Bletchleyite]

It works out similar in capacity terms, as each carriage on an 807 will hold more passengers than that of a 390.

It's quite interesting that that's the case, because unlike the 390 the 805 (one would expect the 807 to be similar!) seem from those videos to have a very large proportion of table seats aligned with the (First Class spaced) windows, which must surely reduce capacity compared to the existing 80x unless they have reduced the airline seat legroom considerably (which I hope not!). The picture upthread suggests the seat backs don't meet, so there's luggage space between them.

 

[Peter Sarf]

It's quite interesting that that's the case, because unlike the 390 the 805 (one would expect the 807 to be similar!) seem from those videos to have a very large proportion of table seats aligned with the (First Class spaced) windows, which must surely reduce capacity compared to the existing 80x unless they have reduced the airline seat legroom considerably (which I hope not!). The picture upthread suggests the seat backs don't meet, so there's luggage space between them.

Indeed. I would have assumed the comparison would be with a Voyager (221).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed. I would have assumed the comparison would be with a Voyager (221).

The 807s don't to be fair really need to compare with very much, because they're intended to work on services that don't presently exist - the Birmingham semifast and the second (slower) Liverpool. Demand for these two services, unless priced onto them by way of cheaper Advances, is likely to be lower than the faster services.

805s are going to be far more capacious (and comfortable) than a 221 because the latter have an incredibly inefficient layout with only about 2/3 of the coach containing seats, plus they're 15m (3m per coach) longer.

 

[Energy]

and the second (slower) Liverpool.

Where does this service stop?

 

[JonathanH]

Where does this service stop?

There is an indication in the pdf in this post.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/december-2022-timetable-changes.231835/page-7#post-5702664

One Liverpool would do Liverpool South Parkway, Runcorn, Crewe, Milton Keynes, the other Runcorn, Lichfield Trent Valley and Tamworth.