Progress on Avanti West Coast's 805/807s Hitachi AT300 sets

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I do , anecdotally of course. I can comment on myself , my wife, my children, my extended family's children and the experiences that have all been had. So it's not a statistic, but a rather damning picture has been painted. The only linking factor is tilting trains, as in almost all cases the nausea / vomiting is only when on a 390.

Goodness, that can't be pleasant.
I have to say I rather love the tilting sensation myself

 

[CJ]

Why would they, when there are 56 Pendolinos?

I'm just wondering if they would ever venture forth this way (be it a direct service or diversionary service)

Understand that chances are very slim with Manchester not being on the mainline and as you say, plenty of Pendolinos to operate.

As I mentioned, Super Voyagers have come via Manchester in the past (and during the COVID timetable, there was one or two services a day that did run with Super Voyagers!)

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I'm just wondering if they would ever venture forth this way (be it a direct service or diversionary service)

Understand that chances are very slim with Manchester not being on the mainline and as you say, plenty of Pendolinos to operate.

As I mentioned, Super Voyagers have come via Manchester in the past (and during the COVID timetable, there was one or two services a day that did run with Super Voyagers!)

Diversionary, sure. Booked, it's not planned I don't believe.

 

[irish_rail]

Goodness, that can't be pleasant.
I have to say I rather love the tilting sensation myself

Indeed plenty do. Trouble is it almost makes rail impossible for many on certain routes. 80x will help address that on the lower half of the WCML at least.

 

[800001]

Goodness, that can't be pleasant.
I have to say I rather love the tilting sensation myself

For some reason if I sit towards the end of the carriage I get sickness, but if I sit towards the middle of the coach I feel fine

 

[liamf656]

I do , anecdotally of course. I can comment on myself , my wife, my children, my extended family's children and the experiences that have all been had.

I also can't cope with long distances on a 390 for the same reason, especially north of Preston!

 

[Skie]

I've only ever had travel sickness on a 390, but thankfully only 2 or 3 times, and each time I was reading or watching a movie. 10 minutes looking out of the window sorted it out. For me it's just keeping a window in view that helps avoid it. Used to get it as a kid if I ever read a book/comic in the back seat of a car, same reason.

 

[AJDesiro]

The Standard Premium antimacassars are clipped over the top of the stitched in FC ones on Pendolinos, so never say never eh

They do indeed have the magnetic attachments for the Standard Premium antimacassars, but it'd be a waste of the onboard kitchen if they were to be SP only!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There was an 805 at Euston this morning, left around 0800 going to Lancaster AIUI.

That was the one (002) I saw at Crewe on its return trip around mid-day. It was turned at Preston.
RTT says its original headcode was 3P90/3A92, but it actually ran as 5Q11/5Q13, which might mean something about the type of working.

 

[Bald Rick]

Really? So many people (and I'm talking "normals" here not railway folk) get nausea or vomiting on Pendolinos. It seems especially so in children. The 80x will be a god send for many, and I suspect journeys to the likes of Liverpool and Preston will be planned around getting on an 80x rather than a 390 for all those who suffer from the tilting sickness!

Indeed plenty do. Trouble is it almost makes rail impossible for many on certain routes. 80x will help address that on the lower half of the WCML at least.

Interestingly, I am at National championship level for travel sickness, having been sick (actually blowing chunks, not just feeling it) on every mode of motorised transport I’ve used, including narrowboats at 1mph. But never on a Pendolino, not even a twinge.

However I‘m fairly confident that on an 80x using exceptional curving rules on the WCML I’ll start getting the hot/cold sweats and my eyes dancing. Be careful what you wish for!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interestingly, I am at National championship level for travel sickness, having been sick (actually blowing chunks, not just feeling it) on every mode of motorised transport I’ve used, including narrowboats at 1mph. But never on a Pendolino, not even a twinge.

However I‘m fairly confident that on an 80x using exceptional curving rules on the WCML I’ll start getting the hot/cold sweats and my eyes dancing. Be careful what you wish for!

I sometimes feel slightly queasy in coach A northbound at night which has a slightly rougher tilt due to not being able to predict off the coach in front. Not so bad that the back row of that coach would stop being my preferred seating, though.

By contrast Germany seems to often run a very high cant deficiency on certain lines and that, because it's consistent force, never caused me an issue.

 

[Bald Rick]

By contrast Germany seems to often run a very high cant deficiency on certain lines and that, because it's consistent force, never caused me an issue.

Top end of the ECML does me in every time.

 

[absolutelymilk]

I also can't cope with long distances on a 390 for the same reason, especially north of Preston!

My girlfriend also gets travel sick on the 390s but not other trains. She also doesn't like the low ceilings compared to other trains.

 

[Trainbike46]

Interestingly, I am at National championship level for travel sickness, having been sick (actually blowing chunks, not just feeling it) on every mode of motorised transport I’ve used, including narrowboats at 1mph. But never on a Pendolino, not even a twinge.

However I‘m fairly confident that on an 80x using exceptional curving rules on the WCML I’ll start getting the hot/cold sweats and my eyes dancing. Be careful what you wish for!

Fortunately, there will be the option of using 390s and other trains on basically every route, whether that is using the avanti 80x or the LNER+scotrail, TPE, TfW, northern, or LNWR services - so people who care enough (which I suspect will be a minority including me) can take the services that suit them best

Getting motion sick at 1 mph is really unfortunate in any case

 

[irish_rail]

Interestingly, I am at National championship level for travel sickness, having been sick (actually blowing chunks, not just feeling it) on every mode of motorised transport I’ve used, including narrowboats at 1mph. But never on a Pendolino, not even a twinge.

However I‘m fairly confident that on an 80x using exceptional curving rules on the WCML I’ll start getting the hot/cold sweats and my eyes dancing. Be careful what you wish for!

Well everyone is different. But neither myself or my children have ever so much as felt sick on an 80x, whereas my kids have all thrown up (physically vomited) on 390s.

 

[92002]

Given that the current Blackpoool services (and Preston terminaters) should really all be going to [Carlisle and] Glasgow, does that mean that most of the Brum-Preston-Glasgow trains have been written out of the timetable?
What level of government thinks this is a good idea? Obviously not anyone interested in "Levelling up" - or a party wanting any votes from rail travellers wanting to go to SW Scotland.

The plan seems to be that Birmingham to Glasgow and Edinburgh services will continue to be Pendolinos.

 

[AndrewE]

The plan seems to be that Birmingham to Glasgow and Edinburgh services will continue to be Pendolinos.

Good... but will they actually be running to Glasgow 2-hourly? There shouldn't be any extra services for London (even to Liverpool, which is currently under-provided) until the Birmingham-Glasgows are back in full. 2 key daytime services still terminate at Blackpool.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Really? So many people (and I'm talking "normals" here not railway folk) get nausea or vomiting on Pendolinos. It seems especially so in children. The 80x will be a god send for many, and I suspect journeys to the likes of Liverpool and Preston will be planned around getting on an 80x rather than a 390 for all those who suffer from the tilting sickness!

Unfortunately, us Mancunians with luggage won't have that luxury! I say that, as I know plenty here who would happily change trains to avoid tilting or high fares if only carrying an backpack.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Unfortunately, us Mancunians with luggage won't have that luxury! I say that, as I know plenty here who would happily change trains to avoid tilting or high fares if only carrying an backpack.

If you want to ride in a 110mph EMU to Euston from Manchester you'd be significantly better off (financially at least) doing so via the LNR Crewe service than the Avanti 80x, unless you're specifically out to ride 80x of course!

 

[Jamesrob637]

If you want to ride in a 110mph EMU to Euston from Manchester you'd be significantly better off (financially at least) doing so via the LNR Crewe service than the Avanti 80x, unless you're specifically out to ride 80x of course!

No not really. LOL. Been on enough Azuma things already, and they're only 7 years old. I don't mind the LNR option, although Manchester to London off-peak is now cheaper to split at Nuneaton.

 

[RailWonderer]

What's wrong with the Avanti 80x? They've got the same seats as the refurbished 390s, except with more bays and better window alignment. Long distance 730s are just 350s with the 730/0 seats except wider and with armrests, alongside a declassified first class section with the 197 variant of the Fainsa Sophia, they also won't run to Birmingham from London, and won't always be on the Trent Valley.


Dunno, apparently the plans have changed. There's plenty of slower 80x paths going to Blackpool though.

They won't ride half as well as Pendolinos do, I was on one without tilt recently and it rattled and jogged about. I imagine the IETs will be worse than that. For me a Voyager will still be the best ride for comfort on the WCML.

It just doesn't make any sense. The 9 carriage Pendolino I had yesterday had a single, RAMMED Coach K for First Class, and 7 carriage 807s will have 1 and a half - longer carriages on those too? I wonder why the second isn't to be used as standard premium on certain services?

First is cheaper on a weekend. On the weekdays first is very lightly used most of the day.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

For me, refurbished Pendolinos have a luxurious, premium sort of feel when compared to the far blander (just my opinion), mass produced 80x on other routes, so I’ll be glad that they’ll remain on the routes I typically use Avanti for. It just goes to show everything is subjective I suppose, and varies person to person.

First is cheaper on a weekend. On the weekdays first is very lightly used most of the day.

They allocate an additional coach on weekdays, so that’s interesting but the point still stands - why can’t they operate SP and 1st on 807s in the adjustable way they do on Pendolinos?

 

[Mikey C]

For me, refurbished Pendolinos have a luxurious, premium sort of feel when compared to the far blander (just my opinion), mass produced 80x on other routes, so I’ll be glad that they’ll remain on the routes I typically use Avanti for. It just goes to show everything is subjective I suppose, and varies person to person.

The Avanti 80Xs will have an interior similar to to 390s.

If they have better legroom, they'll be nice trains to travel in, as the 390 legroom is adequate rather than generous. Plus of course, bigger windows.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The Avanti 80Xs will have an interior similar to to 390s.

If they have better legroom, they'll be nice trains to travel in, as the 390 legroom is adequate rather than generous. Plus of course, bigger windows.

I’ve seen the interiors, but you can still easily tell they’re 80x. The 390 on board ambience is so very distinctive.

 

[Skie]

I’ve seen the interiors, but you can still easily tell they’re 80x. The 390 on board ambience is so very distinctive.

Oppressive?

 

[Peter Sarf]

I’ve seen the interiors, but you can still easily tell they’re 80x. The 390 on board ambience is so very distinctive.

I find Pendolinos are claustrophobic and have noisy air-conditioning. They are bearable for short journeys. But it is why I am happy to use a 350 where available. I am looking forward to 805s and 807s being better in that respect.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I find Pendolinos are claustrophobic and have noisy air-conditioning. They are bearable for short journeys. But it is why I am happy to use a 350 where available. I am looking forward to 805s and 807s being better in that respect.

To me I find 80x feel like end doored, slightly faster 350/1s. Or very similar to the Class 444.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Good... but will they actually be running to Glasgow 2-hourly? There shouldn't be any extra services for London (even to Liverpool, which is currently under-provided) until the Birmingham-Glasgows are back in full. 2 key daytime services still terminate at Blackpool.

TPE services north of Preston are being improved from June.
Services are gradually coming back (except to Chester/North Wales, and now Shrewsbury), where the 805 fleet was supposed to go.

 

[Welshguy1048]

27/02/24 - Avanti West Coast Class 805 - 805009 - Holyhead to Oxley Car M.D. - Test Run

 

[AJDesiro]

Good... but will they actually be running to Glasgow 2-hourly? There shouldn't be any extra services for London (even to Liverpool, which is currently under-provided) until the Birmingham-Glasgows are back in full. 2 key daytime services still terminate at Blackpool.

There's not much slack in the Pendolino fleet currently, there's only 1 hot spare on a weekday, that's not enough to extend the Birmingham-Glasgows back. Nowadays with the Voyager fleet concentrated mostly on NWC and a few Euston-Birmingham diagrams, you're not going to get any more Glasgows from Birmingham at least until the 80x fleet enters service. Even then, it might be more realistic for them to make a return after a recast of services post-HS2.