Progress on Avanti West Coast's 805/807s Hitachi AT300 sets

[Railperf]

I would imagine it's the extra services they will be running as the current trains seem to have no issues


I'm not too sure, the FirstGroup Managing Director mentioned more drivers are being trained for resilience. I must say having an unnecessary diesel train sat in Liverpool will be a shame.

How not to run a railway - part 805. Order a new fleet of bi-mode trains to reduce CO2 and to remove diesel running 'under the wires' - which will have to run on diesel under the wires because the leccy supply has not been upgraded for them. You couldn't make it up!!

 

[danbarjon]

How not to run a railway - part 805. Order a new fleet of bi-mode trains to reduce CO2 and to remove diesel running 'under the wires' - which will have to run on diesel under the wires because the leccy supply has not been upgraded for them. You couldn't make it up!!

I'd like to say it is a shambles but knowing Avanti they will make it worst probably next week they will say they are running Voyagers to Liverpool...

 

[Mikey C]

Surely the 805s will be needed for North Wales services? What will happen to the 807s now?

 

[kkong]

805/807 Drivers Manual

Couldn't they afford the extra printing cost for the apostrophe?

 

[danbarjon]

Surely the 805s will be needed for North Wales services? What will happen to the 807s now?

Unknown. I definitely don't think they will be running in doubles as they've only got 13 and will need to split them between North Wales and Liverpool...

 

[92002]

Unknown. I definitely don't think they will be running in doubles as they've only got 13 and will need to split them between North Wales and Liverpool...

Presumably till supply is upgraded the 807s will cover Birmingham and Blackpool services

 

[Bletchleyite]

Presumably till supply is upgraded the 807s will cover Birmingham and Blackpool services

They would be anyway.

 

[danbarjon]

Presumably till supply is upgraded the 807s will cover Birmingham and Blackpool services

They might need to keep a few Voyagers to run some Liverpool and North Wales trains to balance capacity.

 

[DJH1971]

Surely the 805s will be needed for North Wales services? What will happen to the 807s now?

Especially as they are OHLE only

 

[The Planner]

But LNR runs fewer services to Liverpool than it did, and all the freight uses diesel these days.
The route's power supply and feeding methods have also been expensively upgraded in recent years as part of WCRM.

800s are more hungry. WCRM didn't upgrade it all.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Surely the 805s will be needed for North Wales services?

But no longer for Shrewsbury

. 805s will run between Crewe and Liverpool on diesel. They have also mentioned their target to introduce these are June.

And when will the 807s be ready?

 

[danbarjon]

But no longer for Shrewsbury


And when will the 807s be ready?

Probably looking at late Summer I'd imagine.

 

[Trainbike46]

800s are more hungry. WCRM didn't upgrade it all.

so the report is accurate, and at least initially there will 805s on diesel to Liverpool?

Still odd there isn't the spare capacity for 1 extra electric train per hour per direction

 

[danbarjon]

so the report is accurate, and at least initially there will 805s on diesel to Liverpool?

Still odd there isn't the spare capacity for 1 extra electric train per hour per direction

TfN Board Meeting Video

From 39:28 is the discussion on 805s to Liverpool.

 

[Trainbike46]

Thank you!

 

[JW4]

so the report is accurate, and at least initially there will 805s on diesel to Liverpool?

It’s accurate to what’s in the drivers’ manual

 

[Trainbike46]

Let's hope they upgrade the power supply soon - new diesel under the wire really shouldn't be happening

 

[danbarjon]

Let's hope they upgrade the power supply soon - new diesel under the wire really shouldn't be happening

It is quite the shambles given the big fuss of these new electric trains to Liverpool.. that'll now be a little bit diesel

 

[DJH1971]

It is quite the shambles given the big fuss of these new electric trains to Liverpool.. that'll now be a little bit diesel

And by the sound of things, the 807's won't be going to Liverpool.

They will need 2 805's for a diagram as there is going to be a lot of people standing up on just one 805.

 

[Trainbike46]

And by the sound of things, the 807's won't be going to Liverpool.

They will need 2 805's for a diagram as there is going to be a lot of people standing up on just one 805.

note that this will be an entirely extra service, on top of the hourly pendolino, so they could just use pricing to send people towards the other service

Does anyone know when we are likely to see the first 805/807 in service. I understand that more voyagers are going off-lease from June, so presumably before then?

 

[Bletchleyite]

note that this will be an entirely extra service, on top of the hourly pendolino, so they could just use pricing to send people towards the other service

Yes, it'd be an option to offer Advances only from Liverpool South Parkway on that one (due to that one being the one to stop there) and everything else to be walk up - I reckon that would balance the load.

 

[JW4]

note that this will be an entirely extra service, on top of the hourly pendolino, so they could just use pricing to send people towards the other service

Does anyone know when we are likely to see the first 805/807 in service. I understand that more voyagers are going off-lease from June, so presumably before then?

The aim at the moment is by the June timetable change.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Yes, it'd be an option to offer Advances only from Liverpool South Parkway on that one (due to that one being the one to stop there) and everything else to be walk up - I reckon that would balance the load.

Ypou can't do that - an off peak or anytime ticket is valid on any train (within the off peak times for OP), and even if no fare is offered to LSP, break of journey is allowed.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Ypou can't do that - an off peak or anytime ticket is valid on any train (within the off peak times for OP), and even if no fare is offered to LSP, break of journey is allowed.

I think the theory is that Advances won't be offered from Lime St and other stations encouraging those passengers onto the other train per hour, not that there won't be a flexible ticket.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ypou can't do that - an off peak or anytime ticket is valid on any train (within the off peak times for OP), and even if no fare is offered to LSP, break of journey is allowed.

I mean the complete opposite - no cheap Advances *except* LSP in order to keep demand lower.

 

[Snow1964]

DfT has today 21st March published the West Coast Partnership contract, and on page 75 says the 221s end of lease between 01/08/23 and 30/06/24

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65f1c6c6ff1170489661595b/west-coast-partnership-2023-national-rail-contract.pdf

So looks like got about 14 more weeks to get these into service and replace the 221s



page 76 has the data on 805 and 807
805 to seat 276 + wheelchair, 164 standing, First 25 + wheelchair
807 to seat 404 + wheelchair, 216 standing, First 49 + wheelchair

Lease expiry 01/04/34 with early re delivery anytime from 01/04/26

 

[poffle]

I thought the initial plan was to start with 805s on the Birmingham semi-fasts and then work on clearing 805s to North Wales.

Wonder if they're planning to swap the Brum 805s for 807s and then use the 805s for Liverpool. But there would you not be enough 805s for single 805 services to Liverpool.

( Unless they do double 805s to Liverpool via Chester. Very unlikely)

 

[danbarjon]

I've found a possible 805 allocated service to Chester in June in the AWC app.

The 10:02 London Euston to Chester is showing with Standard seats in Coach M and no seat map. I'm only guessing but this could be an 805 as there is no Coach M on the Voyagers. Nothing on the Liverpools yet.

 

[DJH1971]

I've found a possible 805 allocated service to Chester in June in the AWC app.

The 10:02 London Euston to Chester is showing with Standard seats in Coach M and no seat map. I'm only guessing but this could be an 805 as there is no Coach M on the Voyagers. Nothing on the Liverpools yet.

So the 807's are unlikely to be going on the Liverpool services?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I've found a possible 805 allocated service to Chester in June in the AWC app.

The 10:02 London Euston to Chester is showing with Standard seats in Coach M and no seat map. I'm only guessing but this could be an 805 as there is no Coach M on the Voyagers. Nothing on the Liverpools yet.

I've found what looks very much like a double 805 (15:32 to Euston on June 10th), and it has a seat map
Double 805:

Voyager: