Quarantine

[yorkie]

It might make sense now (I still oppose it), but my fear is if this is in place by around May. That would be ridiculous.

The lack of timescale is concerning. Edit: I heard a rumour it's only for 6-8 weeks, but cannot verify this

 

[Requeststop]

Good. There is far too many people who think they have the right to travel and to holiday. They confuse the words want and need and have.
I want to have a holiday overseas: Not necessary
I need to have a holiday overseas: Not necessary
I have to have a holiday overseas: Not necessary
There is a vast difference: Not necessary
If people want to go away and either spread the virus or catch the virus then make them pay for travelling and potentially spreading the virus.
In the past year, based out here in Papua, I have travelled twice. Once to return to the UK where I was fortunate (admittedly) to be able to spend the time both in quarantine and to stay alone for three months at a friends home in Cornwall. Secondly, to make the difficult journey with tens of forms, back here to work again and to pay for myself to stay in a hotel for 14 days and nights before re-starting my work, also in difficult circumstances.
If I was asked on my next return home to have a COVID test before departure (difficult in this country presently) fine. No problem. If on my return I have to pay to stay in a hotel to quarantine - fine.
It's the rules and the law.
The sooner some selfish people in this world start to learn that this is a war the better.
My parents in the Second World War, made tremendous sacrifices to both fight and to help in the home front for nearly SIX YEARS in the battle against people who would take away all the rights we have to travel.
A few months sacrifices by people today would really help the battle against the virus.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

It might make sense now (I still oppose it), but my fear is if this is in place by around May. That would be ridiculous.

The lack of timescale is concerning. Edit: I heard a rumour it's only for 6-8 weeks, but cannot verify this

It won't work for the UK. It is a country that relies heavily and tourism and it is a very highly populated country. Not to mention, its interconnected and relies with the rest of Europe.

The only reason why it has worked in Australia and New Zealand is because they are geographically isolated, and they are too far away from the rest of the world. Also, not that many tourists visit Australia and New Zealand. Their populations are also small too.

 

[yorkie]

A few months sacrifices by people today would really help the battle against the virus.

The virus is endemic; if you are suggesting it can be eliminated, this is not the case.

As I said I don't mind really if it's just for 8 weeks, and is not in place during April and beyond. My concern is that if it is implemented, there is a risk it could overstay its welcome. I am also not convinced any potential benefits are worth the drawbacks.

This isn't just about 'holidays'; I doubt any of the people travelling right now are doing so for holiday purposes.

 

[farleigh]

Good. There is far too many people who think they have the right to travel and to holiday. They confuse the words want and need and have.
I want to have a holiday overseas: Not necessary
I need to have a holiday overseas: Not necessary
I have to have a holiday overseas: Not necessary
There is a vast difference: Not necessary
If people want to go away and either spread the virus or catch the virus then make them pay for travelling and potentially spreading the virus.
In the past year, based out here in Papua, I have travelled twice. Once to return to the UK where I was fortunate (admittedly) to be able to spend the time both in quarantine and to stay alone for three months at a friends home in Cornwall. Secondly, to make the difficult journey with tens of forms, back here to work again and to pay for myself to stay in a hotel for 14 days and nights before re-starting my work, also in difficult circumstances.
If I was asked on my next return home to have a COVID test before departure (difficult in this country presently) fine. No problem. If on my return I have to pay to stay in a hotel to quarantine - fine.
It's the rules and the law.
The sooner some selfish people in this world start to learn that this is a war the better.
My parents in the Second World War, made tremendous sacrifices to both fight and to help in the home front for nearly SIX YEARS in the battle against people who would take away all the rights we have to travel.
A few months sacrifices by people today would really help the battle against the virus.

But you appear to be one of those people who would take away all the rights we have to travel from your post. Apologies if I have misunderstood

 

[Yew]

A few months sacrifices by people today would really help the battle against the virus.

What happened to '12 weeks to turn the tide'

You speak of wars and battles, almost like Field Marshall Haig; throwing men 'over the top' over and over, in the hope of a different result.

The purpose of life is not to make unlimited sacrifices, under threat of force, for a politicians vain attempts to 'defeat' a virus; particularly if there's no good evidence for the measures, and all prior pandemic planning specifically recommended against them.

 

[trainophile]

It won't work for the UK. It is a country that relies heavily and tourism and it is a very highly populated country. Not to mention, its interconnected and relies with the rest of Europe.

The only reason why it has worked in Australia and New Zealand is because they are geographically isolated, and they are too far away from the rest of the world. Also, not that many tourists visit Australia and New Zealand. Their populations are also small too.

Last time I checked we were an island, albeit a bit of a leaky one. I do believe selectively enforcing quarantine for arrivals from high infection countries would be a step in the right direction, and something that should have been done 12 months ago.

 

[Requeststop]

What happened to '12 weeks to turn the tide'

You speak of wars and battles, almost like Field Marshall Haig; throwing men 'over the top' over and over, in the hope of a different result.

The purpose of life is not to make unlimited sacrifices, under threat of force, for a politicians vain attempts to 'defeat' a virus; particularly if there's no good evidence for the measures, and all prior pandemic planning specifically recommended against them.

No. You are putting words in my mouth, and I resent it. It's not about "throwing people over the top". To the south of me is Australia. Total Control between borders of their States in the main and Just NOT allowing travel. Totally unlike the UK with all it's dithering; unworkable rules and regulations. And people travelling all over the place for the last 10 months thinking "It's not going to happen to me". A lot more personal sacrifice by certain people would help.

But you appear to be one of those people who would take away all the rights we have to travel from your post. Apologies if I have misunderstood

Actually I was here for 7 and a half months before coming home for 3 months. So do tell me what do I do as an expat UK citizen? Stay away from home? I have to tell you without labouring the point, travelling from PNG to the UK was not easy, as it should be, entering the UK as I did in September was surprising so easy as to be unbelievable. Travelling back here was really tough, the checks and paperwork was the difficulty. Leaving the UK was also surprising easy. Now I wonder where the problems are?

 

[brad465]

New Zealand has now recorded its first community Covid infection in months:

Covid: New Zealand reports first case in the community in months

The woman, who recently returned from Europe, had completed two weeks in isolation.

www.bbc.co.uk

New Zealand has reported its first case of Covid-19 outside of a quarantine facility in more than two months.

Health officials said a 56-year-old woman who had recently returned from Europe tested positive 10 days after completing a compulsory two-week period of managed isolation.

Contact tracing efforts are under way, and authorities have published a list of locations the woman visited.

New Zealand has been widely praised for its response to the pandemic.

The country, with a population of five million, has recorded 1,927 confirmed cases and 25 deaths over the course of the pandemic.

The Ministry of Health said the woman had tested negative twice before leaving an isolation facility in Auckland on 13 January.

She started developing mild symptoms two days later, which then got progressively worse. She received a positive test result on Saturday and has been isolating at home.

In a press conference on Sunday, Health Minister Chris Hipkins said it was too soon to speculate on the "origin or the strain of the infection".

But the ministry said it was "working on the assumption any case might be a more transmissible variant and [was] taking appropriate precautions".

Mr Hipkins said it was "too early" to comment on any further response.

The woman visited a number of places in New Zealand's Northland region after leaving isolation.

The Health Ministry published a list of the locations, including supermarkets, restaurants and a gallery.

They said anyone who was at these places at the same time was considered a "casual contact", and asked them to stay at home and get tested "out of an abundance of caution".

Four close contacts of the women have also been tested and are isolating.

What's particularly concerning here is how they got infected despite having completed quarantine with negative tests throughout and only tested positive 24 days after they arrived in New Zealand. They did manage to get on top of the second bout of community cases in the country and eliminate it again, but one wonders how long it will be before it can't be controlled again, despite their best efforts and response so far.

 

[kristiang85]

The sooner some selfish people in this world start to learn that this is a war the better.
My parents in the Second World War, made tremendous sacrifices to both fight and to help in the home front for nearly SIX YEARS in the battle against people who would take away all the rights we have to travel.
A few months sacrifices by people today would really help the battle against the virus.

Calling this a war is very disingenuous (especially comparing it to WW2). Your parents - and everybody else next to them on the lines - were indeed fighting against a human enemy that were taking away our rights not only to travel, but many other liberties, and of course - most seriously - the right to a fair society no matter who you are (and given what the current rules are doing for people with disabilities, it is horrifying to see all this forgotten). The virus is a natural thing that isn't taking away our rights; the government's restrictions are doing that, and this was the authoritarianism they were battling against. Also war was killing mostly young people; the virus is mostly killing people who - sadly but frankly - are of the age they would expect to die anyway. People who fought in the war are probably aghast at what is happening now, and probably would be a bit offended if anybody was to make the comparison.

Not to mention, in the actual war, people were mostly free to go to the pub, attend a play, see friends in their houses, etc. despite the ever present threat of a bomb falling on their heads. I guess the best comparision between the war and now is the blackouts, in terms of a significant restriction that was needed and everybody tended to abide by, with fines if you didn't. But that was reasonable.

Specifically on travel, note that long established pandemic guidance by the WHO said it did not recommend border closures, as the effects would be negligible and the harms would outweigh the benefits.

You mention Australia later on, but it is a bit easier to implement down there. Firstly, it is not really a 'hub' country like, say, many European countries (including the UK) and the US are, so closing borders is a bit easier economically and logistically as it is akin to 'the end of the line'. Secondly, although many families do split between Australia and other places, they tend to be very far away and so visits tend to be every 2-3 years anyway, so the effect on the average person who travels to see people is less as they are mostly used to long periods apart and the family structure will cope with it. In the UK, and Europe, so many families have relocated across the continent but are a quick flight or Eurostar ride away, so they still have regular meets and support. People in that position are going to be really affected by any policy that makes international travel mostly impossible. Finally, I think it is safe to say that in Australia people can cope without going away mentally for a while - the weather is mostly nice, and homes have lots of space (having lived there myself, even in the Melbournian winter, I can attest to that). Here in the UK, with such dark days, cold weather, and many people living in places without much space both indoor and outdoor, not having a trip abroad can be a huge affect on them mentally. Not to mention that good mental health and vitamin D from sunnier climes (if that's where you choose to go) is great for fighting viruses at an individual level...

As I've said I travelled a bit last year. You might see this as 'selfish', but I followed every rule in place, and even being doubly sure in terms of paying for extra tests, etc. I managed to bring a bit of income to people who were really struggling, and to be honest my travels in autumn have meant I've been in a much better place mentally than I otherwise would have been right now, although I'm rapidly losing that.

I am happy to go by quarantine rules, and even letting the government in by a Polish-style app, but being forced to pay for a hotel is a step too far. And it's basically going to kill off so many tourism-related businesses in the UK; British people on staycation will not make up for a lot of that (especially as you tend to spend much less travelling in your home country than you do abroad).

And on your final point, everybody has made 'a few months sacrifice' already - plus a lot more...

 

[Jamiescott1]

Guess I'm selfish then. I went abroad 3 times last summer and I sure as hope to go on holiday this year. I've already missed Christmas, February term and it looks like Easter trips abroad this year.

The longer the pandemic goes on the looser restrictions should become, not the opposite.

 

[Richard Scott]

Good. There is far too many people who think they have the right to travel and to holiday. They confuse the words want and need and have.
I want to have a holiday overseas: Not necessary
I need to have a holiday overseas: Not necessary
I have to have a holiday overseas: Not necessary
There is a vast difference: Not necessary
If people want to go away and either spread the virus or catch the virus then make them pay for travelling and potentially spreading the virus.
In the past year, based out here in Papua, I have travelled twice. Once to return to the UK where I was fortunate (admittedly) to be able to spend the time both in quarantine and to stay alone for three months at a friends home in Cornwall. Secondly, to make the difficult journey with tens of forms, back here to work again and to pay for myself to stay in a hotel for 14 days and nights before re-starting my work, also in difficult circumstances.
If I was asked on my next return home to have a COVID test before departure (difficult in this country presently) fine. No problem. If on my return I have to pay to stay in a hotel to quarantine - fine.
It's the rules and the law.
The sooner some selfish people in this world start to learn that this is a war the better.
My parents in the Second World War, made tremendous sacrifices to both fight and to help in the home front for nearly SIX YEARS in the battle against people who would take away all the rights we have to travel.
A few months sacrifices by people today would really help the battle against the virus.

All in your opinion. We've made the few months sacrifice as you call it. You may not realise that foreign travel works both ways and is also useful to our economy. If you want to stop people doing what they enjoy then find a country that lives like that. People don't need new cars, phones or lots of other goods. We can put a stop to that too. You also don't need chocolate, cake, we can live off bland food, stop that too shall we? Being ridiculous, no, I really enjoy be travel, it makes me happy, you may not, that's fine but don't see why rest of us should stop.

 

[trainophile]

I guess the initial thought of using currently closed Travelodges to quarantine people, at their base (and pretty affordable) rate of e.g. £20 a night, wouldn't work as they don't tend to do much in the way of catering and the detainees residents wouldn't be allowed out to buy food. They could maybe have a bulk delivery from a takeaway several times a day but that would take organising, which I doubt the staff would be prepared to do.

Otherwise hotels offering this service at normal tariffs would be out of the reach of most leisure travellers, and overseas businesses aren't going to send delegates who can't meet their clients for nearly a fortnight.

 

[Cdd89]

I see a lot of people saying it’s overdue, the border is too porous, etc etc, but which other European countries have done this? Is there even one?

 

[Yew]

entering the UK as I did in September was surprising so easy as to be unbelievable. Travelling back here was really tough, the checks and paperwork was the difficulty. Leaving the UK was also surprising easy. Now I wonder where the problems are?

Because there's no point in quarantining when the virus is already in endemic ciruclation. If it isn't, as is the case in Aus and Nz, then it's worthwhile.

A lot more personal sacrifice by certain people would help.

You've had a year of my life in this delusional quest, you have already stolen too much; if you wish to take more from me, then I suggest you start bidding.

I see a lot of people saying it’s overdue, the border is too porous, etc etc, but which other European countries have done this? Is there even one?

There's no point in it, none at all; we'd be better off offering them the families of people that have been asked to isolate/ have covid.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Good. There is far too many people who think they have the right to travel and to holiday. They confuse the words want and need and have.
I want to have a holiday overseas: Not necessary
I need to have a holiday overseas: Not necessary
I have to have a holiday overseas: Not necessary
There is a vast difference: Not necessary
If people want to go away and either spread the virus or catch the virus then make them pay for travelling and potentially spreading the virus.
In the past year, based out here in Papua, I have travelled twice. Once to return to the UK where I was fortunate (admittedly) to be able to spend the time both in quarantine and to stay alone for three months at a friends home in Cornwall. Secondly, to make the difficult journey with tens of forms, back here to work again and to pay for myself to stay in a hotel for 14 days and nights before re-starting my work, also in difficult circumstances.
If I was asked on my next return home to have a COVID test before departure (difficult in this country presently) fine. No problem. If on my return I have to pay to stay in a hotel to quarantine - fine.
It's the rules and the law.
The sooner some selfish people in this world start to learn that this is a war the better.
My parents in the Second World War, made tremendous sacrifices to both fight and to help in the home front for nearly SIX YEARS in the battle against people who would take away all the rights we have to travel.
A few months sacrifices by people today would really help the battle against the virus.

The one thing I don’t NEED to do it to live by your rules or to listen to you.

My only sibling, my brother lives in another country.

 

[duncanp]

Good. There is far too many people who think they have the right to travel and to holiday. They confuse the words want and need and have.
I want to have a holiday overseas: Not necessary
I need to have a holiday overseas: Not necessary
I have to have a holiday overseas: Not necessary
There is a vast difference: Not necessary
If people want to go away and either spread the virus or catch the virus then make them pay for travelling and potentially spreading the virus.
In the past year, based out here in Papua, I have travelled twice. Once to return to the UK where I was fortunate (admittedly) to be able to spend the time both in quarantine and to stay alone for three months at a friends home in Cornwall. Secondly, to make the difficult journey with tens of forms, back here to work again and to pay for myself to stay in a hotel for 14 days and nights before re-starting my work, also in difficult circumstances.
If I was asked on my next return home to have a COVID test before departure (difficult in this country presently) fine. No problem. If on my return I have to pay to stay in a hotel to quarantine - fine.
It's the rules and the law.
The sooner some selfish people in this world start to learn that this is a war the better.
My parents in the Second World War, made tremendous sacrifices to both fight and to help in the home front for nearly SIX YEARS in the battle against people who would take away all the rights we have to travel.
A few months sacrifices by people today would really help the battle against the virus.

So you have travelled from Papua New Guinea to the UK and back in the past year, and yet you call everyone else who wants to travel selfish.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Yew]

My parents in the Second World War, made tremendous sacrifices to both fight and to help in the home front for nearly SIX YEARS in the battle against people who

Didn't we fight against authoritarian's who used emergency powers to control the population?

 

[Chester1]

The virus is endemic; if you are suggesting it can be eliminated, this is not the case.

As I said I don't mind really if it's just for 8 weeks, and is not in place during April and beyond. My concern is that if it is implemented, there is a risk it could overstay its welcome. I am also not convinced any potential benefits are worth the drawbacks.

This isn't just about 'holidays'; I doubt any of the people travelling right now are doing so for holiday purposes.

If the justification is variants then why would it be for a few weeks? Why not 5 years? People are so desperate for lockdown to end they appear willing to accept anything that isn't lockdown and not think it through. Its also not the only option for strengthening border controls. Its going from minimum controls to the nuclear option in one go. The social, economic and political reasons for the travel corridors remain. I don't think they will follow through with it. The obvious next step would be putting all non British or Irish citizens and non residents through visa system and only granting for personal (e.g. to stay with family) or business reasons. International tourists account for about a tenth of UK tourism, they would easily be compensated for by people unwilling or unable to travel abroad. The Polish App would strengthen quarantining at home without pricing people out of travel like hotel quarantining.

Guess I'm selfish then. I went abroad 3 times last summer and I sure as hope to go on holiday this year. I've already missed Christmas, February term and it looks like Easter trips abroad this year.

The longer the pandemic goes on the looser restrictions should become, not the opposite.

I think many in favour of banning international travel are like the people who kicked off in the spring when people sunbathed in parks - they had gardens. International travel ban sounds great if you are the sort of person who goes to Cornwall most years and won't be paying £1500 (Aussie cost) in quarantine fees each time you see a loved one or simply can't because of work.

I see a lot of people saying it’s overdue, the border is too porous, etc etc, but which other European countries have done this? Is there even one?

None because it breaches EU law, the Irish Government has confirmed that when the Irish parliament discussed last week. Its also totally unfeasible. I am sick of hearing we are an Island. GB is but the UK isn't, we have a 300 mile open land border! The willingness of many to side step that fact is very telling.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Last time I checked we were an island, albeit a bit of a leaky one. I do believe selectively enforcing quarantine for arrivals from high infection countries would be a step in the right direction, and something that should have been done 12 months ago.

Yes, we may be an island (and we are), but we have the Channel Tunnel which takes people from London to Continental Europe by train in just under 2 hours, so even if we close our borders, it will make no difference whatsoever.

It's about time that the UK used the same strategy as Sweden does.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Calling this a war is very disingenuous (especially comparing it to WW2). Your parents - and everybody else next to them on the lines - were indeed fighting against a human enemy that were taking away our rights not only to travel, but many other liberties, and of course - most seriously - the right to a fair society no matter who you are (and given what the current rules are doing for people with disabilities, it is horrifying to see all this forgotten). The virus is a natural thing that isn't taking away our rights; the government's restrictions are doing that, and this was the authoritarianism they were battling against. Also war was killing mostly young people; the virus is mostly killing people who - sadly but frankly - are of the age they would expect to die anyway. People who fought in the war are probably aghast at what is happening now, and probably would be a bit offended if anybody was to make the comparison.

Not to mention, in the actual war, people were mostly free to go to the pub, attend a play, see friends in their houses, etc. despite the ever present threat of a bomb falling on their heads. I guess the best comparision between the war and now is the blackouts, in terms of a significant restriction that was needed and everybody tended to abide by, with fines if you didn't. But that was reasonable.

Specifically on travel, note that long established pandemic guidance by the WHO said it did not recommend border closures, as the effects would be negligible and the harms would outweigh the benefits.

You mention Australia later on, but it is a bit easier to implement down there. Firstly, it is not really a 'hub' country like, say, many European countries (including the UK) and the US are, so closing borders is a bit easier economically and logistically as it is akin to 'the end of the line'. Secondly, although many families do split between Australia and other places, they tend to be very far away and so visits tend to be every 2-3 years anyway, so the effect on the average person who travels to see people is less as they are mostly used to long periods apart and the family structure will cope with it. In the UK, and Europe, so many families have relocated across the continent but are a quick flight or Eurostar ride away, so they still have regular meets and support. People in that position are going to be really affected by any policy that makes international travel mostly impossible. Finally, I think it is safe to say that in Australia people can cope without going away mentally for a while - the weather is mostly nice, and homes have lots of space (having lived there myself, even in the Melbournian winter, I can attest to that). Here in the UK, with such dark days, cold weather, and many people living in places without much space both indoor and outdoor, not having a trip abroad can be a huge affect on them mentally. Not to mention that good mental health and vitamin D from sunnier climes (if that's where you choose to go) is great for fighting viruses at an individual level...

As I've said I travelled a bit last year. You might see this as 'selfish', but I followed every rule in place, and even being doubly sure in terms of paying for extra tests, etc. I managed to bring a bit of income to people who were really struggling, and to be honest my travels in autumn have meant I've been in a much better place mentally than I otherwise would have been right now, although I'm rapidly losing that.

I am happy to go by quarantine rules, and even letting the government in by a Polish-style app, but being forced to pay for a hotel is a step too far. And it's basically going to kill off so many tourism-related businesses in the UK; British people on staycation will not make up for a lot of that (especially as you tend to spend much less travelling in your home country than you do abroad).

And on your final point, everybody has made 'a few months sacrifice' already - plus a lot more...

I 100% agree with you. Closed borders may work fine in Australia and New Zealand for the reasons you've just said but it won't work here I'm afraid.

 

[duncanp]

I 100% agree with you. Closed borders may work fine in Australia and New Zealand for the reasons you've just said but it won't work here I'm afraid.

And Australia and New Zealand may well have a problem when their borders eventually do open up.

Vaccination doesn't provide complete protection, nor has it been proven that it stops tranmission of the virus, so even if foreign tourists have to have a COVID jab before they enter Australia and New Zealand, there could be still be an uptick in cases.

 

[brad465]

And Australia and New Zealand may well have a problem when their borders eventually do open up.

Vaccination doesn't provide complete protection, nor has it been proven that it stops tranmission of the virus, so even if foreign tourists have to have a COVID jab before they enter Australia and New Zealand, there could be still be an uptick in cases.

As I quoted in post #579, New Zealand now has another community infection despite borders remaining closed, so as this all drags on there's a good chance it will get through the border more strongly and make their need to vaccinate its population all the more greater.

 

[packermac]

Calling this a war is very disingenuous (especially comparing it to WW2). Your parents - and everybody else next to them on the lines - were indeed fighting against a human enemy that were taking away our rights not only to travel, but many other liberties, and of course - most seriously - the right to a fair society no matter who you are (and given what the current rules are doing for people with disabilities, it is horrifying to see all this forgotten). The virus is a natural thing that isn't taking away our rights; the government's restrictions are doing that, and this was the authoritarianism they were battling against. Also war was killing mostly young people; the virus is mostly killing people who - sadly but frankly - are of the age they would expect to die anyway. People who fought in the war are probably aghast at what is happening now, and probably would be a bit offended if anybody was to make the comparison.

Not to mention, in the actual war, people were mostly free to go to the pub, attend a play, see friends in their houses, etc. despite the ever present threat of a bomb falling on their heads. I guess the best comparision between the war and now is the blackouts, in terms of a significant restriction that was needed and everybody tended to abide by, with fines if you didn't. But that was reasonable.

Specifically on travel, note that long established pandemic guidance by the WHO said it did not recommend border closures, as the effects would be negligible and the harms would outweigh the benefits.

You mention Australia later on, but it is a bit easier to implement down there. Firstly, it is not really a 'hub' country like, say, many European countries (including the UK) and the US are, so closing borders is a bit easier economically and logistically as it is akin to 'the end of the line'. Secondly, although many families do split between Australia and other places, they tend to be very far away and so visits tend to be every 2-3 years anyway, so the effect on the average person who travels to see people is less as they are mostly used to long periods apart and the family structure will cope with it. In the UK, and Europe, so many families have relocated across the continent but are a quick flight or Eurostar ride away, so they still have regular meets and support. People in that position are going to be really affected by any policy that makes international travel mostly impossible. Finally, I think it is safe to say that in Australia people can cope without going away mentally for a while - the weather is mostly nice, and homes have lots of space (having lived there myself, even in the Melbournian winter, I can attest to that). Here in the UK, with such dark days, cold weather, and many people living in places without much space both indoor and outdoor, not having a trip abroad can be a huge affect on them mentally. Not to mention that good mental health and vitamin D from sunnier climes (if that's where you choose to go) is great for fighting viruses at an individual level...

As I've said I travelled a bit last year. You might see this as 'selfish', but I followed every rule in place, and even being doubly sure in terms of paying for extra tests, etc. I managed to bring a bit of income to people who were really struggling, and to be honest my travels in autumn have meant I've been in a much better place mentally than I otherwise would have been right now, although I'm rapidly losing that.

I am happy to go by quarantine rules, and even letting the government in by a Polish-style app, but being forced to pay for a hotel is a step too far. And it's basically going to kill off so many tourism-related businesses in the UK; British people on staycation will not make up for a lot of that (especially as you tend to spend much less travelling in your home country than you do abroad).

And on your final point, everybody has made 'a few months sacrifice' already - plus a lot more...

Yes I do see it as selfish, it also smacks of the UK should be different to everywhere else. The weather may be good in certain parts of Australia, but have you ever been to Victoria in their winter?
It is up to any country to impose whatever controls they see fit on their borders be that quarantine, paying for a hotel to do it, visa, Covid tests etc.
Remember travel is a two way thing, Australia already suggesting borders do not reopen until 2022, Hong Kong talking about even making airline crews quarantine for 14 days, which creates a flight ban by default.
European countries may decide to ban travel from the UK, who would you propose to complain to about that then?

 

[kristiang85]

Yes I do see it as selfish, it also smacks of the UK should be different to everywhere else.

How is the UK being different to everywhere else when the majority of countries are not locking their borders, NZ/Aus style?

The weather may be good in certain parts of Australia, but have you ever been to Victoria in their winter?

As I said in the post you quoted, I have lived in Melbourne, and have experienced their winters. But they aren't as long and miserable as here nor indeed as cooped up.

It is up to any country to impose whatever controls they see fit on their borders be that quarantine, paying for a hotel to do it, visa, Covid tests etc.

Indeed they can. I'm not saying other countries shouldn't do it any other way. I'm just saying asking Britain to do it Australia's way isn't going to work. Especailly as the virus is now endemic on our soil. It will be shutting the stable door long after the horse has bolted, and then setting fire to the stable.

Remember travel is a two way thing, Australia already suggesting borders do not reopen until 2022, Hong Kong talking about even making airline crews quarantine for 14 days, which creates a flight ban by default.
European countries may decide to ban travel from the UK, who would you propose to complain to about that then?

That's up to them. Then we won't be able to go there. But many countries will be making decisions balancing both their economic and epidemiological best interests, so its virtually impossible that the whole world will shut us out. Tanzania, for example, has always been pretty open to anybody, because they know the threat to their country from their tourist sector collapsing is more dangerous than the virus.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

The pipes in Downing Street are still leaking...

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1353403534855856129

NEW: Understand ministers will now meet Tuesday to discuss enforced hotel quarantine for arrivals.

Plan being worked on is for passengers to be escorted from airport to hotel for 10 days at their expense. Whether this is for all arrivals or just high risk countries is TBC.

Policy will have to be signed off Tues and could still evolve. Likely cast list at the meeting includes Michael Gove, Home Sec Priti Patel, Health Sec Matt Hancock and Transport Sec Grant Shapps.

 

[yorkie]

I find it odd when you see authoritarians on Twitter who are purportedly pro-EU but are also pro-closing borders.

I would hope that NZ / Australia will be bottom of the queue for vaccines; countries with more cases ought to get priority. Of course that won't happen.

The NZ / Australia approach would not be possible for the UK; people who claim we are an island conveniently ignore the land border between Northern Ireland / Republic of Ireland.

They also ignore the fact we had around 1m Brits abroad at the time. We didn't have testing capacity. We have many lorries coming into our ports. Many other factors.

At least 1300 identifiable strains of the virus were brought into the UK in the erarly stgages of the Pandemic. I wonder what the figures were for NZ/Aus?

Yes I do see it as selfish, it also smacks of the UK should be different to everywhere else.

That's a strawman argument; that is not what @kristiang85 is saying.

The weather may be good in certain parts of Australia, but have you ever been to Victoria in their winter?

The harshness of winter is only a small factor in the bigger picture

It is up to any country to impose whatever controls they see fit on their borders be that quarantine, paying for a hotel to do it, visa, Covid tests etc.

@kristiang85 wasn't saying otherwise.

Remember travel is a two way thing, Australia already suggesting borders do not reopen until 2022, Hong Kong talking about even making airline crews quarantine for 14 days, which creates a flight ban by default.

Exactly; we don't want that to happen to us.

European countries may decide to ban travel from the UK, who would you propose to complain to about that then?

I don't understand this question; what has that got to do with anything @kristiang85 posted?

 

[island]

There might, many months ago, have been a benefit in enforced hotel quarantine for arrivals from abroad into the UK, if it had been coordinated with the Republic of Ireland and thereby avoided the issue of the porous land border. There are alleged EU law issues with Ireland implementing this; I am not close to what they might be, but in any event, that ship has long sailed.

Aside from the numerous implementation issues, it is not at all clear that the government has the power to forcibly detain British people in hotels and charge them for their detention.

 

[Chester1]

There might, many months ago, have been a benefit in enforced hotel quarantine for arrivals from abroad into the UK, if it had been coordinated with the Republic of Ireland and thereby avoided the issue of the porous land border. There are alleged EU law issues with Ireland implementing this; I am not close to what they might be, but in any event, that ship has long sailed.

Aside from the numerous implementation issues, it is not at all clear that the government has the power to forcibly detain British people in hotels and charge them for their detention.

I am in the process of re-arranging my holidays so that staying in a quarantine hotel is viable. I will go abroad, plaster my social media with photos to wind up people who don't like international travel and pay to quarantine. If that's £1500, so be it. I won't be trapped in the UK long term, waiting for the majority of people to accept that the virus will mutate forever.

Ireland is a bigger hole than people realise. You won't need to quarantine at all under the following circumstances:

1) Travel from the Republic of Ireland to UK remains outside UK quarantine law
2) Ireland lifts quarantine for all UK residents
3) At least one country on Ireland's Green list has the UK on its green list

In those circumstances I would clump my annual leave together, book three weeks off work, fly to first destination, stay for 10 days, fly to Ireland and spend 10 days on holiday there and then fly home. Having been within the Common Travel Area for the previous 10 days I would be exempt from quarantine.

 

[brad465]

Despite New Zealand's best efforts, after someone tested positive after leaving quarantine, there are now 2 more positive cases from the same hotel (at the moment this is only on the live feed):

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-55823064

Two more positive cases in New Zealand despite isolation​

New Zealand requires most international arrivals to quarantine in facilitiesImage caption: New Zealand requires most international arrivals to quarantine in facilities

New Zealand is investigating two further cases of positive Covid results in people who have been in self-isolation.

The country has very strict restrictions on entering the country, and almost all arrivals must complete 14-day isolation in a hotel or other facility. This has allowed the country to pursue a strategy of eliminating Covid cases, making any new infections cause for serious alarm.

On Sunday it reported its first case in two months, in a woman who had completed her isolation at the Pullman Hotel in Auckland.

She tested positive after two negative results, and after travelling around the country's Northland region.

Now two more people who stayed in the same isolation facility have tested positive. They are both self-isolating at home, the government says, while further tests are carried out to see if the infections are recent or historic