RealTimeTrains website

[bearhugger]

May somebody please advise on how to do a unit number search?

Type the unit number into the Quick Search and hit Go.

 

[william.martin]

Type the unit number into the Quick Search and hit Go.

Much appreciated, never knew you could do this

 

[Strat-tastic]

Much appreciated, never knew you could do this

#Tom4PrimeMinister

 

[kbizzle]

Got a RTT / Railmiles question, is there a function within Railmiles where if you enter a historical journey and another user has this in their log that it can be retrieved from there to assist with missing units etc.?

 

[ayubdaud]

I was looking through a random Northern train and noticed RTT suggested platform amendments at Woodley, Hyde Central and Fairfield. I think, however, the platform numbers changed on RTT are incorrect.

Realtime Trains | 2H73 1743 Rose Hill Marple to Manchester Piccadilly | 09/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 2H73 1743 departure from Rose Hill Marple to Manchester Piccadilly on 09/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Also this is an example of Woodley all day today:

Realtime Trains | Departures from Woodley all day on 09/02/2023

Train information at Woodley all day on 09/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[gazr]

I was looking through a random Northern train and noticed RTT suggested platform amendments at Woodley, Hyde Central and Fairfield. I think, however, the platform numbers changed on RTT are incorrect.

Realtime Trains | 2H73 1743 Rose Hill Marple to Manchester Piccadilly | 09/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 2H73 1743 departure from Rose Hill Marple to Manchester Piccadilly on 09/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Also this is an example of Woodley all day today:

Realtime Trains | Departures from Woodley all day on 09/02/2023

Train information at Woodley all day on 09/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

It really blows my mind that there are several stations with two platforms and different official sources conflict over which one is which. It doesn't help that most of these don't display an actual number at the stations. I don't hold RTT responsible for this, as its only as good as the data it receives.

 

[takno]

It really blows my mind that there are several stations with two platforms and different official sources conflict over which one is which. It doesn't help that most of these don't display an actual number at the stations. I don't hold RTT responsible for this, as its only as good as the data it receives.

In most cases it would be more accurate to say that the stations don't historically, or in any meaningful current sense, have platform numbers at all, but lots of industry systems expect a platform number, so one has been arbitrarily applied, or wrongly copied across. As you note, most of the stations don't actually display platform numbers, so the impact on everybody's life is absolutely minimal.

 

[ExRes]

I fully realise it might just be my ageing brain missing the obvious, but .... why does RTT not show freight operators with each individual schedule just simply "ZZ"? Rail Record shows the operator of all freight services making it simple and logical to follow any particular FOCs services

 

[Tom]

Is there more companies planned to join Know Your Train in future?

Yes.

Got a RTT / Railmiles question, is there a function within Railmiles where if you enter a historical journey and another user has this in their log that it can be retrieved from there to assist with missing units etc.?

No, but RailMiles will go back up to 6 months in history from the RTT archives. (Likely to be extended when the earlier discussion about a bigger history is made live) If you're logged into RailMiles and you know someone else who has the journey though, you can click the 'take' button which looks like an arrow on their public page to add it to yours.

I fully realise it might just be my ageing brain missing the obvious, but .... why does RTT not show freight operators with each individual schedule just simply "ZZ"? Rail Record shows the operator of all freight services making it simple and logical to follow any particular FOCs services

The data from Network Rail comes through as a TOC code of ZZ. I assume Rail-Record then go and translate the Train Service Code which will essentially say what the operator is. There are a couple of decoding tables available to do this from NR - but I don't think they're updated at any regularity in the public domain... so there's probably a level of manual fettling to do it. We already have to do enough manual fettling to make RTT do what it is does at the moment and given it's for freight rather than passenger, the latter of which is far more our focus, it's not really worth the effort with the limited time and resource we have available.

I have just hired a new software engineer who is already getting to grips with the system and will be making their first major change behind the scenes to RTT in the next few weeks, and are currently hiring for a data analyst/manager. More details are available at https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/about/jobs/. So never say never, but it doesn't look likely in the short term.

 

[ExRes]

The data from Network Rail comes through as a TOC code of ZZ. I assume Rail-Record then go and translate the Train Service Code which will essentially say what the operator is. There are a couple of decoding tables available to do this from NR - but I don't think they're updated at any regularity in the public domain... so there's probably a level of manual fettling to do it. We already have to do enough manual fettling to make RTT do what it is does at the moment and given it's for freight rather than passenger, the latter of which is far more our focus, it's not really worth the effort with the limited time and resource we have available.

I have just hired a new software engineer who is already getting to grips with the system and will be making their first major change behind the scenes to RTT in the next few weeks, and are currently hiring for a data analyst/manager. More details are available at https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/about/jobs/. So never say never, but it doesn't look likely in the short term.

Thanks for the response Tom, much appreciated, knowing nothing about your area of expertise can I ask if it's possible to have two boxes on the search function which could have 'start' and 'finish' points, such as Accrington Cornflakes Sidings to Lands End Yard or is that going much too far?

 

[bubieyehyeh]

Can I ask why realtimetrains doesn't show part cancellations, is it using a different feed to national rail website?

For example this train tonight:

Realtime Trains | 1705 London Victoria to Horsham | 15/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 1705 departure from London Victoria to Horsham on 15/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

All stations after Horsham were cancelled but it currently showing the train at horsham over 90mins.
Though on detailed view its been approaching Arundel for last 60mins.

Anyway fanastically useful website

 

[markymark2000]

Can I ask why realtimetrains doesn't show part cancellations, is it using a different feed to national rail website?

For example this train tonight:

Realtime Trains | 1705 London Victoria to Horsham | 15/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 1705 departure from London Victoria to Horsham on 15/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

All stations after Horsham were cancelled but it currently showing the train at horsham over 90mins.
Though on detailed view its been approaching Arundel for last 60mins.

Anyway fanastically useful website

This is the most annoying thing for me. When things all run normally, the site is great but as soon as there is any kind of disruption, it's useless as any changes aren't listed.

I believe though that it's due to RTT getting their disruptions information from another data source. The feed which National Rail, station screens and journey planners all use, is a different feed and for some reason, RTT don't use it.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

The feed which National Rail, station screens and journey planners all use, is a different feed and for some reason, RTT don't use it.

it is sometimes useful to have both, I usually keep both Northern Journeycheck and RTT available, one gives rolling stock and junctions, while the other gives cancellation data.

 

[louis97]

Can I ask why realtimetrains doesn't show part cancellations, is it using a different feed to national rail website?

For example this train tonight:

Realtime Trains | 1705 London Victoria to Horsham | 15/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 1705 departure from London Victoria to Horsham on 15/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

All stations after Horsham were cancelled but it currently showing the train at horsham over 90mins.
Though on detailed view its been approaching Arundel for last 60mins.

Anyway fanastically useful website

The Bognor portion still ran, but it ran with the Portsmouth portion headcode until Arundel where it was corrected. That is why its been approaching Arundel as thats where the headcode was corrected. Yes the data feed is different because of the licensing requirements of the Darwin feed.

 

[JonathanH]

This is the most annoying thing for me. When things all run normally, the site is great but as soon as there is any kind of disruption, it's useless as any changes aren't listed.

'Useless' is going too far. It just takes more interpretation and use of other sources of information (eg sites with maps, Tiger etc) to work out what is going on.

 

[bubieyehyeh]

it is sometimes useful to have both, I usually keep both Northern Journeycheck and RTT available, one gives rolling stock and junctions, while the other gives cancellation data.

The Bognor portion still ran, but it ran with the Portsmouth portion headcode until Arundel where it was corrected. That is why its been approaching Arundel as thats where the headcode was corrected. Yes the data feed is different because of the licensing requirements of the Darwin feed.

Thanks for the explanations.
I've not found a companion website (I don't want apps) for the cancellation info that I'm really happy with.

The southern website live departure information gives useful information, like number of coaches and cancellations, but it never seem to update the page, and if you force the browser to reload you have to enter stations again which is annoying

 

[markymark2000]

'Useless' is going too far. It just takes more interpretation and use of other sources of information (eg sites with maps, Tiger etc) to work out what is going on.

It doesn't show most disruptions and so you can't plan your journey. Because of how it gets the data, if a train goes on diversion, you will never know if it's on diversion or cancelled (take an Avanti for example from Manchester to London, if I am at Crewe, the train may divert via Heald Green but I'd never know. All it shows is my train is expected on time at Slade Lane Junction and beyond that no tracking. Is the system down, is my train stopped, is it on diversion? You'll never know until the train gets to Wilmslow and it starts tracking again. Meanwhile all other systems are showing delayed or showing a provisional arrival time (based off industry estimates of the time taken to do the diversion).
I can't speak for other operators but TFW, if a train is late and they cancel it part route and put on another train to start on time (sat a Maesteg to Cheltenham. Heavily delayed so they cancel the main train at Cardiff and restart the service from Cardiff to Cheltenham, spot on time with a new train), the restarted service doesn't show up until quite late on and any allocations link back to the original service (Generally restarted services run under a Z headcode but RTT shows no allocation for the Z headcode but if you go to the normal headcode, it shows the allocation there for the restarted service.

Basically, I would say it is useless. There is no information to enable you to plan any kind of journey because it tells you nothing. Is the next train running? Who knows, no information. As I say, it's great when things are running as normal but come disruptions, it's useless. It can't take much information from Tiger and the likes because Tiger/Worldline shows trains which have additional stop orders but RTT doesn't show these. For sites with maps, these show when trains are diverted as the headcode moves on the map, RTT doesn't pick this up. I am an avid user of RTT yet I don't think that I have come across any instance yet where RTT gives half decent information during disruption. I've always had to use the 3 main sites (Worldline/Tiger, RTT and OpenTrainTimes) to work out the information between them and see what is going on.

I've not found a companion website (I don't want apps) for the cancellation info that I'm really happy with.

Tiger/Worldline is the best one that I have found as that shows the station departure screens. That sometimes gives more information. It's saved me a few times when I've been sat on a train not moving and no one has given details of the issue (despite a driver being in the cab), you jump on Tiger/Worldline and it shows my train 'Delayed' and underneath 'Delayed due to awaiting a member of train crew'. Turns out a guard was inbound on another service. That gives more information than the station do or any existing onboard staff (who are seemingly incapable of giving information over a PA system).

 

[louis97]

All it shows is my train is expected on time at Slade Lane Junction and beyond that no tracking. Is the system down, is my train stopped, is it on diversion? You'll never know until the train gets to Wilmslow and it starts tracking again.

You can get an indication of diversion in some cases from the line code at the junction where the train diverges to the diversion route.

 

[JonathanH]

I've always had to use the 3 main sites (Worldline/Tiger, RTT and OpenTrainTimes) to work out the information between them and see what is going on.

Exactly. The systems are all free to use, provide information that is not available on NRE, and complement each other.

 

[markymark2000]

You can get an indication of diversion in some cases from the line code at the junction where the train diverges to the diversion route.

That works but how do you know if it's diverted or stopped dead doing nothing? You'll never know until the train goes back on planned path.

Exactly. The systems are all free to use, provide information that is not available on NRE, and complement each other.

They do compliment eachother but there are very, very limited instances where RTT is useful. I think the only instances where it's helpful is where trains are on normal planned path and are actually (as it has the most accurate estimated arrival times). As soon as a train goes off planned path or is stopped delayed, it's useless. When a train is off planned path or stopped delayed etc, I tend to use open train times maps. If OTT maps linked to the right service when I clicked the headcode, that would be useful, otherwise I then use RTT just to get the right headcode, nothing more. If OTT fixed that issue though, I'd have no use for RTT when trains are off planned path or stopped delayed.

 

[bubieyehyeh]

Tiger/Worldline is the best one that I have found as that shows the station departure screens. That sometimes gives more information. It's saved me a few times when I've been sat on a train not moving and no one has given details of the issue (despite a driver being in the cab), you jump on Tiger/Worldline and it shows my train 'Delayed' and underneath 'Delayed due to awaiting a member of train crew'. Turns out a guard was inbound on another service. That gives more information than the station do or any existing onboard staff (who are seemingly incapable of giving information over a PA system).

Thanks I give https://tiger.worldline.global/ a go
The extra stops info will be useful, since when thameslink get cancellations, sometime the southern train I'm on will stop additionally at my station, but its not always announced on tannoy.

 

[Tom]

Put simply, I would love to improve the information on RTT in disruption. Cancellations, alterations, the lot.

Thing is, the industry simply won’t allow it on a global level with the current licensing restrictions in place on Darwin. I could change that - I could make RTT purely Darwin based (knowing that not even that is perfect, and the industry are fine with it as long as everyone is wrong!!!) but then what would make it different to every other Darwin site? Couldn’t even do Know Your Train.

We are working with a few operators at present to solve this issue for each operator and working on integrating their localised detail. Not perfect, but works towards a solution - and should hopefully start a slippery slope like we did for KYT.

One of the work streams underway at present is to alter how train reporting works internally within RTT. Once that’s done, off route reports will become very common as the way it does headcode matching to trains will vastly change.

 

[50002Superb]

I think you’re doing a great job @Tom

 

[Western 52]

I think you’re doing a great job @Tom

I second that, RTT is amazing!

 

[RailWonderer]

What does VVR mean?

Realtime Trains | Departures from York around 1100 on 16/02/2023

Train information at York around 1100 on 16/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The 11:01 TPE arrival from Piccadilly shows up VVR. I notice it does not have an allocated platform, is it something to do with that?

 

[ainsworth74]

Thanks for the response Tom, much appreciated, knowing nothing about your area of expertise can I ask if it's possible to have two boxes on the search function which could have 'start' and 'finish' points, such as Accrington Cornflakes Sidings to Lands End Yard or is that going much too far?

Is the function you want not achieved by using the filtering functions? For instance "Location" York with a calling point under subsequently of Darlington will only show trains at York that go onto call at Darlington.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

What does VVR mean?

Realtime Trains | Departures from York around 1100 on 16/02/2023

Train information at York around 1100 on 16/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The 11:01 TPE arrival from Piccadilly shows up VVR. I notice it does not have an allocated platform, is it something to do with that?

VVR = a schedule created on the day that has subsequently been altered.

 

[ExRes]

Is the function you want not achieved by using the filtering functions? For instance "Location" York with a calling point under subsequently of Darlington will only show trains at York that go onto call at Darlington.

Thanks, I've obviously looked straight through that a million times without it sinking in I shall experiment .......

 

[ainsworth74]

Thanks, I've obviously looked straight through that a million times without it sinking in I shall experiment .......

Happens to the best of us

 

[htafc]

Type the unit number into the Quick Search and hit Go.

Wow, that is amazing