Remaining Northern Line Bank upgrades following major blockade

[swt_passenger]

I’ve noticed in quite a few of the various schematics about this project that the “moving walkway” is usually shown with a bend about halfway along, but is that actually technically possible, or is it just the usual artistic licence?

Another neat video from Geoff Marshall though…

 

[Starmill]

I’ve noticed in quite a few of the various schematics about this project that the “moving walkway” is usually shown with a bend about halfway along, but is that actually technically possible, or is it just the usual artistic licence?

Another neat video from Geoff Marshall though…

It's technically possible definitely, because various museums and similar attractions have them. However they look very different to the standard kind of moving walkways that you might find in an airport or a branch of IKEA and are usually smaller.

 

[bcarmicle]

Not sure if you mean this type?:
(project moved on from week 4)

That was it—thanks for digging it out! (And based on the videos, looks like they’re working to schedule )

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Did I hear at some stage, that they are using some of the old King William Street Station / Tunnels for some of this refurbishment / expansion?

 

[stuu]

Did I hear at some stage, that they are using some of the old King William Street Station / Tunnels for some of this refurbishment / expansion?

Yes, that's correct. They were used as part of the access from one of the surface worksites, explained in this article

 

[Taunton]

Yes, that's correct. They were used as part of the access from one of the surface worksites, explained in this article

The major worksite is in Arthur Street

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That's the little curved street that descends from King William Street (the north end of London Bridge) down to Lower Thames Street.

Directly below Arthur Street are the old CSLR tunnels, following the same street line and apparently almost at the same descending gradient. The railway actually started off facing westwards, but then curved 90 degrees under the street to face south and go under the river. Apparently the two running tunnels also, as soon as they diverged from the platform, rolled over to one above the other. They are presumably tied into the Bank-Monument complex somehow.

All the excavated material from the new Northern Line tunnel appears to have come out this way, and into a stream of tipper trucks loaded in Arthur Street which hauled it away. They were commonly lined up in the middle of Lower Thames Street awaiting entrance to the site.

 

[swt_passenger]

I saw in Geoff Marshall’s latest video that he mentioned the Arthur St shaft had now been filled in, or at least was no longer in use. There are views of the underside of the ceiling at track level blanked off with massive concrete planks.

That’s the video linked in Post #90 - at 8m 15s.

But IIRC one of his earlier videos also had views of the parts of the King William St disused station that were used as part of the construction access route. If anyone’s interested in that aspect, it’s here at about 2 mins in, the segment includes photos of its WW2 use as a shelter:

Extra bit posted Sunday evening…

I was just wondering, what proportion of the passengers arriving at Bank‘s Northern line platforms, (and who are leaving the station), are expected to use the new Cannon St entrance?

Is it likely there will be people who will prefer to walk a little bit further to their destination at street level having used the most spacious and direct escalator route?

 

[Snow1964]

I was just wondering, what proportion of the passengers arriving at Bank‘s Northern line platforms, (and who are leaving the station), are expected to use the new Cannon St entrance?

Is it likely there will be people who will prefer to walk a little bit further to their destination at street level having used the most spacious and direct escalator route?

Regular travellers will do bit of trial and error of convenience vs time and choose a route. Sometimes this will depend on how TfL set up reversible escalators.

As an example in 1990s I worked near Oxford Circus station, and quickest exit in morning to my office was to exit on corner near John Lewis, but after about 09:30 each day that was used as entrance only. Half the entrance escalators were used as extra exit capacity early on so could exit via the entrance hall.

Cannon Street is different (there is a mainline station disgorging commuters) unlike Oxford Circus which had very few people starting their journey from the station before shops opened. So new Cannon Street exit might not be spacious in morning peak if it gets set up for crowds from mainline station.

Usage of Northern line at Bank could change as some currently boarding at London Bridge from trains, might re-route via Cannon Street if quicker. Similarly some arriving at Liverpool Street might use new Elizabeth line passageways to Moorgate rather than taking street level route to Bank.

 

[swt_passenger]

Regular travellers will do bit of trial and error of convenience vs time and choose a route. Sometimes this will depend on how TfL set up reversible escalators.

As an example in 1990s I worked near Oxford Circus station, and quickest exit in morning to my office was to exit on corner near John Lewis, but after about 09:30 each day that was used as entrance only. Half the entrance escalators were used as extra exit capacity early on so could exit via the entrance hall.

Cannon Street is different (there is a mainline station disgorging commuters) unlike Oxford Circus which had very few people starting their journey from the station before shops opened. So new Cannon Street exit might not be spacious in morning peak if it gets set up for crowds from mainline station.

Usage of Northern line at Bank could change as some currently boarding at London Bridge from trains, might re-route via Cannon Street if quicker. Similarly some arriving at Liverpool Street might use new Elizabeth line passageways to Moorgate rather than taking street level route to Bank.

Some interesting points, I hadn‘t even thought that the new Cannon St entrance might cause an additional large inward flow, but I’m sure you’re right. It’s all got to be considered in multiple ways, as we’ve discussed in earlier threads Crossrail will have wider influence as well, eg it might slightly reduce overall numbers into Cannon St from SE, but it’s definitely intended to remove people from Bank (Central line), which also influences Bank interchange numbers.

I guess a load of TfL flow modelling specialists will be looking forward to how it turns out as each phased change occurs, eg the Cannon St entrance and the travelators come on stream a bit later than the platform opening.

 

[Mikey C]

Cannon Street is different (there is a mainline station disgorging commuters) unlike Oxford Circus which had very few people starting their journey from the station before shops opened. So new Cannon Street exit might not be spacious in morning peak if it gets set up for crowds from mainline station.

Usage of Northern line at Bank could change as some currently boarding at London Bridge from trains, might re-route via Cannon Street if quicker. Similarly some arriving at Liverpool Street might use new Elizabeth line passageways to Moorgate rather than taking street level route to Bank.

To an extent the pretty new Walbrook exit will already have changed some travel patterns, as that's already a very convenient exit both for Cannon Street station and the wider area, though I imagine the new Cannon St exit will have much larger passageways connecting to it

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Are the original tunnels to King William Street that go under the river still there and unused, or did the present northern line take them over?

 

[swt_passenger]

Are the original tunnels to King William Street that go under the river still there and unused, or did the present northern line take them over?

The river tunnels are still there, unused since about 1900. The Northern Line‘s new route was new build from north of Borough. IIRC both tunnels were still walkable until nearly the end of the century, when the Jubilee Line alterations went through one of them at London Bridge.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Oh Ok, thank you.

 

[Mikey C]

The new platform is well on its way to opening, test trains have run down it already

https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1517157159699550208

 

[danielcanning]

If trains can run through the new section of tunnel why are TfL continuing to inconvenience tens of thousands of people each day with this closure? Surely operating non-stop through Bank is possible now if the platforms aren’t ready?

 

[Snow1964]

If trains can run through the new section of tunnel why are TfL continuing to inconvenience tens of thousands of people each day with this closure? Surely operating non-stop through Bank is possible now if the platforms aren’t ready?

The 17 week closure was detailed in an earlier post, and was 16 weeks work plus a week of contingency.

TfL have never published an end date (the publicity uses the vague term of mid May) so if works are ahead of schedule there is nothing to stop it being reopened a few days ahead of full 17 weeks

It is probably easier to keep station closed and finish it than have trains operating whilst platforms need finishing, if it is just another 3 weeks

The temporary bus service (route 733) has to end no later than 20th May as the buses are due to take over route 135 from 21st May (Tower Transit take over route 135 on 21st May)

 

[zwk500]

If trains can run through the new section of tunnel why are TfL continuing to inconvenience tens of thousands of people each day with this closure? Surely operating non-stop through Bank is possible now if the platforms aren’t ready?

They may need to continue testing the platform/station safety & Operational systems without the dangers of live power rails and running trains.

 

[MikeWh]

If trains can run through the new section of tunnel why are TfL continuing to inconvenience tens of thousands of people each day with this closure? Surely operating non-stop through Bank is possible now if the platforms aren’t ready?

When they decide to run trains through again there is likely to be a requirement for a weekend closure of Kennington to allow the schedules to be updated in the same way as happened on the first weekend of the closure.

 

[sng7]

If trains can run through the new section of tunnel why are TfL continuing to inconvenience tens of thousands of people each day with this closure? Surely operating non-stop through Bank is possible now if the platforms aren’t ready?

From what I have seen (from the likes of the IainVisits Article Here) is that trains are not yet able to run through in normal service. They ran a couple of test trains over the easter weekend when significant parts of line were closed.
From what i have seen it doesn't look like the singinalling systems etc are able to run test trains with the rest of the line open yet, let alone passenger services.

 

[Dstock7080]

When they decide to run trains through again there is likely to be a requirement for a weekend closure of Kennington to allow the schedules to be updated in the same way as happened on the first weekend of the closure.

On Saturday 23 April, the Northern Line passenger train service will be suspended between Stockwell/Battersea Power Station and Charing Cross/Euston (City) to allow for signalling update work.

On Sunday 15 May, the Northern Line passenger train service will be suspended between Stockwell/Battersea Power Station and Charing Cross/Euston (City) to allow for testing of the new Bank layout.
trains will run empty from Stockwell to Moorgate

 

[Mikey C]

The same total Bank branch closure this weekend as last weekend - nothing south of Euston (Bank branch) so I imagine they will be doing further testing

 

[Snow1964]

@Dstock7080 said

On Saturday 23 April, the Northern Line passenger train service will be suspended between Stockwell/Battersea Power Station and Charing Cross/Euston (City) to allow for signalling update work.

On Sunday 15 May, the Northern Line passenger train service will be suspended between Stockwell/Battersea Power Station and Charing Cross/Euston (City) to allow for testing of the new Bank layout.
trains will run empty from Stockwell to Moorgate

Now seems the Northern line closure on Sunday 15th May is both Saturday and Sunday (linked document updated 25th April)

Northern line Saturday 14th May to Sunday 15th May. Charing Cross to Battersea Power Station and Euston to Stockwell via Bank

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/planned-track-closures.pdf

This weekend Central Line trains not stopping at Bank Saturday-Monday, and District &Circle not stopping at Monument on Sunday. DLR is also closed Bank -Shadwell Saturday-Monday so appears Bank station is closed for 3 days (except for Waterloo and City)

 

[davews]

And no Waterloo and City at weekends, only Monday relevant.

 

[MikeWh]

And no Waterloo and City at weekends, only Monday relevant.

And Monday is a bank holiday.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

And Monday is a bank holiday.

Are they not talking about the weekend of the 14th / 15th, though?

 

[MikeWh]

Are they not talking about the weekend of the 14th / 15th, though?

No, the last paragraph is talking about this weekend. I doubt that they'd completely close Bank Station on a working Monday.

 

[Dstock7080]

Now seems the Northern line closure on Sunday 15th May is both Saturday and Sunday (linked document updated 25th April)

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/planned-track-closures.pdf

Unfortunately that document is incorrect, the planned closure is for Sun 15 May only.
TTN19/22 Sat 14 May
The Northern Line train service will be suspended between Stockwell/Battersea Power Station and Charing Cross/Euston (City).
TTN87/22 Sun 15 May
The Northern Line passenger train service will be suspended between Stockwell/Battersea Power Station and Charing Cross/Euston (City) to allow for testing of the new Bank layout.
trains will run empty from Stockwell to Moorgate

 

[Basil Jet]

So the line from Battersea Power to Charing Cross will be closed because they're testing trains between Stockwell and Moorgate?

 

[Mikey C]

So the line from Battersea Power to Charing Cross will be closed because they're testing trains between Stockwell and Moorgate?

It's what they've been doing for the last 2 weekends.

That also includes closing Euston (Bank) to Moorgate. A shame they couldn't have at least run trains as far south as Kings Cross which would open more interchange possibilities

 

[notverydeep]

It's what they've been doing for the last 2 weekends.

That also includes closing Euston (Bank) to Moorgate. A shame they couldn't have at least run trains as far south as Kings Cross which would open more interchange possibilities

The wider closure is necessary because the signalling computer that controls the area being modified and tested also controls a wider area. It cannot be used to operate normal passenger trains while the testing takes place and until any modifications to the software are signed off or rolled back. Hence the closure has to be to the nearest suitable reversing point outside of the particular computer's area of control, even though this includes significant sections of line not being worked on. Where possible though, other smaller projects do take advantage of the wider area to take advantage of the closure opportunity.