It already runs into Bucks, Berks and Essex. Postal Kent too
This TfL stuff is stupid, the natural end of London's catchment is not zone 6 or the M25. If anything, they should take ownership of all rail in the home counties.
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Should Elizabeth line take over the Thames Valley branches and also Romford - Upminster branch?
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This TfL stuff is stupid, the natural end of London's catchment is not zone 6 or the M25. If anything, they should take ownership of all rail in the home counties.
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But it does have a natural end - TfL is run by the mayor who’s voted for by Londoners.It already runs into Bucks, Berks and Essex. Postal Kent too
This TfL stuff is stupid, the natural end of London's catchment is not zone 6 or the M25. If anything, they should take ownership of all rail in the home counties.
Also; just because a service is run by TfL doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a better offering for the customer.
Not to mention that TfL is subsidised by London Council tax. Why should l pay for rail services in the Home Counties?
cactustwirly
Established Member
From my experience it isn't....
Exactly! Another reason I get frustrated when the Elizabeth line runs fast through my station so it can reach the Home Counties quicker… but that’s for another thread
It’s all a bit parochial - what about eh greater good for connectivity, new electric railways and the region’s / nation’s economy and infrastructure as a whole. It does a lot for London too.
It’s like saying why pay for an upgrade to Kings Cross or Euston - used by way more northerners than Londoners. Silly.
It’s like saying why pay for an upgrade to Kings Cross or Euston - used by way more northerners than Londoners. Silly.
Railwaysceptic
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Which station is that?Exactly! Another reason I get frustrated when the Elizabeth line runs fast through my station so it can reach the Home Counties quicker… but that’s for another thread
The Reading services not calling at Acton Main Line, at a guess?
Railwaysceptic
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The Elizabeth Line train I caught last week did stop at Acton Main Line. (Unless I was dreaming!)
The Heathrow services do, but (looking at RTT for today at least) the Reading services don't.
miklcct
On Moderation
Therefore I also want them to stop as well as long as there is no pathing issue.
Running only one stopping pattern on a line is the way to maximise line capacity, and as mentioned before, reduce the number of changes needed from intercity trains.
Correct! It also impacts West Ealing and Hanwell I believe.
306024
Established Member
Clue: Getting heavy slow moving freight into and out of Acton Yard could have something to do with it.
Crossrail is like a Japanese commuter line - which threads through the city line a tube, but either end, is suburban and even regional in it's spread. 50 mile journeys with side seating and no toilets. Totally fine. This also has different stopping patterns - again, totally fine. RER is the same. It's closer to those than to London Overground, it's not a tube line.
Reading being semi-fast makes sense, and frankly Southend Victoria wouldn't be too far (if fasts still ran). Ending at a major destination or another hub is good practice - encourages counter-commuting, off peak demand etc - and overall utilization. Again, look at Japan and trains running to outer hubs like Utsonomiya, Odawara, Atami etc etc etc. If it was in Japan, we would for sure see Didcot and Oxford and Southend on there. But it's not as densely populated of course.
Reading being semi-fast makes sense, and frankly Southend Victoria wouldn't be too far (if fasts still ran). Ending at a major destination or another hub is good practice - encourages counter-commuting, off peak demand etc - and overall utilization. Again, look at Japan and trains running to outer hubs like Utsonomiya, Odawara, Atami etc etc etc. If it was in Japan, we would for sure see Didcot and Oxford and Southend on there. But it's not as densely populated of course.
cactustwirly
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There isn't the paths, and you would be slowing down services for passengers using outer stations, to serve a handful of passengers
Railwaysceptic
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I was going to Heathrow so that explains it.
miklcct
On Moderation
There is a very good reason why all trains on the London Underground network stop at every station apart from the Metropolitan line.
Can you explain why more paths can't be created if every train has the same stopping pattern?
Also worth noting the multiple changes is temporary - eventually OOC will enable quicker intercity (plus HS2!) connections from the TV lines. If you need fast to Reading or Oxford (and beyond), Slough is also an intermediate point available which isn't a slog out west.
Expect stopping patterns to shift around in the coming few seasons too.
Expect stopping patterns to shift around in the coming few seasons too.
Some class 315s are running for the Elizabeth line and don't touch the core.
That's a temporary measure.
miklcct
On Moderation
Class 315 can't ever enter the core.
I meant because when the Elizabeth line becomes a through line, the 345s will run the entire service.
cactustwirly
Established Member
Because it isn't the Metropolitan line....
The Elizabeth line needs to fit around freight and faster GWR services
But could this change? Should GWR have services on the reliefs? That’s the bigger question.
miklcct
On Moderation
I have noticed that there are some GWR services to Didcot Parkway runs on the fast line to Maidenhead then switch to the slow line there in peak hours, and pass 2 Elizabeth line trains in the process.
My question here is that, can this be done all day? Are there spare paths on the fast line during the day? Where west of Heathrow Junction can trains switch from fast line from Paddington to the slow line to Reading?
Dolphin Junction just outside of Slough?
Plus Slough West and Maidenhead East but all are 40mph junctions so not ideal. When the fast trains run to Maidenhead in the peak they do so in roughly the paths used by the Slough stops in the off-peak making it difficult to do both.
miklcct
On Moderation
I am thinking about converting the off-peak GWR relief line service onto the fast line east of Slough if there are additional fast line capacity, such that only all station stoppers will run east of Hayes & Harlington to maximise relief line capacity.
Yes, but in doing so it uses fast line capacity and removes faster connections to Hayes & Harlington (and therefore Heathrow) and Ealing.
There are advocates for the GWR relief line services to run fast line from Maidenhead all day but there are also advocates to keep them as they are.
Anything stopping at Slough or crossing needs to leave Paddington immediately in front of Heathrow Express. Crossing east of Slough means they can't run in front of the fast line calls at Slough in Oxford / Cotswold services. The path fifteen minute earlier / later is used by the Newbury service using 110mph stock.
What increase in stops is currently needed on the Elizabeth Line services? Is there actually a capacity issue on board?
miklcct
On Moderation
Don't you think the inability to access West Ealing / Acton Main Line with a single change from intercity services an issue?
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