Several operators are doing a very good job of exactly that as we speak.But, you can't mandate people buy before they board when they only have the option to use a card tvm.
Several operators are doing a very good job of exactly that as we speak.But, you can't mandate people buy before they board when they only have the option to use a card tvm.
Several operators are doing a very good job of exactly that as we speak.
Why would it be a good use of public money to artificially increase the need for ticket office staff. Moreover, why would I or anyone else want to waste time waiting needlessly in a queue?Perhaps a smarter idea would be to remove TVMs from most stations with ticket offices and reinstall them at stations without ticket offices, saving the cost of new machines and helping to increase ticket office usage again.
Why would it be a good use of public money to artificially increase the need for ticket office staff. Moreover, why would I or anyone else want to waste time waiting needlessly in a queue?
On the other hand, you work in a ticket office so you're probably slightly biased. I can't see it making any sense removing TVMs from staffed stations. Places like Leeds, the queue would be ridiculous for the ticket office.Human interaction is better and more reliable than machines which fail frequently!
Not sure that is the case at Sheffield ticket office...Human interaction is better and more reliable than machines which fail frequently!
But, you can't mandate people buy before they board when they only have the option to use a card tvm.
Several operators are doing a very good job of exactly that as we speak.
Which ones?
Are we talking about Northern here?
All this talk of passengers wanting to use cash is OK, but there are some for whom cash is their only option as they don't have any cards. It's not (yet!) law that the public has to carry a credit or even a bank cards for the convenience of businesses*, and sterling coins and notes are still the official currency in the UK. So unless the CoT is amended to only allow passengers who do have cards to use the railway, TOCs don't have the option of insisting on card payment.Northern doesn't mandate people to use a card if they wish to use cash. They can obtain a Promise to Pay and use cash. This is basically just a rehash of Permits to Travel, and what those are about is proving where you came from so you don't short-fare when you do pay.
LNR doesn't have Promise to Pay, but if the TVM doesn't take cash or you want to use RTVs, you can, I've done it with the latter. There used to be a sign at Tring stating this, too, don't know if it's still there. Obviously if you want to use card you need to use the TVM.
Is there a TOC that will consider you a non-payer (i.e. PF or prosecute) if the TVM at your origin only takes card and you want to use cash? I don't know of one, and if there was they are arguably breaching the NRCoT.
On the other hand, you work in a ticket office so you're probably slightly biased. I can't see it making any sense removing TVMs from staffed stations. Places like Leeds, the queue would be ridiculous for the ticket office.
No, slow if you're stuck behind a passenger whocan't make their mind up on which ticket, or a staff member who needs to learn to be faster.Human interaction is better and more reliable than machines which fail frequently!
Indeed Northern have issued penalty fares for cash payments WITH promise to pay when the revenue inspector was unable to give change. I can’t remember if it was on here or social media. I believe it was a journey where the passenger boarded at somewhere on the Dearne valley, perhaps Moorthorpe and alighted at Swinton (S Yorks) to a revenue block.Northern doesn't mandate people to use a card if they wish to use cash. They can obtain a Promise to Pay and use cash. This is basically just a rehash of Permits to Travel, and what those are about is proving where you came from so you don't short-fare when you do pay.
Is there a TOC that will consider you a non-payer (i.e. PF or prosecute) if the TVM at your origin only takes card and you want to use cash? I don't know of one, and if there was they are arguably breaching the NRCoT.
I know that I'm not doing the over 65s a disservice. I know quite a few people younger than me who never had to use a computer at work and rarely use one at home (if they even have one). As far as smartphones go, they might have one which is only used for calling and the odd text message, but have no interest in installing applications for various travel or shopping activities. There is this assumption by many (no doubt partly due to mobile phone industry and service providers' publicity) that almost everbody has a smartphone and is prepared to use one to run their whole life, because they themselves might have chosen to do so. Businesses want everything to be online so that they can reduce staff to a minimum, and it seems sometimes that they don't have a problem if customers who can't comply fall by the wayside.I think you do the over 65s a disservice. A 65 year-old would have been born on 1956 and would have been in their early 40s when home internet became mainstream. I'm guessing that those in the 65 plus bracket who don't have access to a computer or a smartphone are skewed towards the older end of that age bracket. By the nature of things they are dwindling and I can't see a massive investment in ticket machines or offices for something that will cease to be an issue in about 5 to 10 years.
Human interaction is better and more reliable than machines which fail frequently!
I don't know about 'managed'. It was a pain on the backside. When I used the cross city line regularly, you'd turn up for a train with 20 minutes to spare to find someone making a meal of trying to renew a Railcard with one member of.staff on tickets taking an age to cut out the photo and queue of people seething behind them, leading to plenty of missed trains.
With smart cards and etickets close to becoming the norm, the ticket machine will go the way of the phone box, serving an ever dwindling number of people. I would expect the number to remain static or decline.
No, slow if you're stuck behind a passenger who can't make their mind up on which ticket, or a staff member who needs to learn to be faster.
Who needs it when I can pick my. ticket at leisure at home and just get straight on the train?
I think you do the over 65s a disservice. A 65 year-old would have been born on 1956 and would have been in their early 40s when home internet became mainstream. I'm guessing that those in the 65 plus bracket who don't have access to a computer or a smartphone are skewed towards the older end of that age bracket. By the nature of things they are dwindling and I can't see a massive investment in ticket machines or offices for something that will cease to be an issue in about 5 to 10 years.
Martins Heron has two ticket machines one side and another on the platform the other side. But one of those is one of the newer ones, cards only, and it refuses to sell me a senior railcard before 9am so if I want to catch the 9.05 train I have to use the other, old version, machine. Or use the ticket office, far easier...
Just buy it online.Martins Heron has two ticket machines one side and another on the platform the other side. But one of those is one of the newer ones, cards only, and it refuses to sell me a senior railcard before 9am so if I want to catch the 9.05 train I have to use the other, old version, machine. Or use the ticket office, far easier...
Speaking as someone who was born in the early 60s, just about everyone I know does have a smartphone, including people older than me.I know that I'm not doing the over 65s a disservice. I know quite a few people younger than me who never had to use a computer at work and rarely use one at home (if they even have one). As far as smartphones go, they might have one which is only used for calling and the odd text message, but have no interest in installing applications for various travel or shopping activities. There is this assumption by many (no doubt partly due to mobile phone industry and service providers' publicity) that almost everbody has a smartphone and is prepared to use one to run their whole life, because they themselves might have chosen to do so. Businesses want everything to be online so that they can reduce staff to a minimum, and it seems sometimes that they don't have a problem if customers who can't comply fall by the wayside.
The government will need to ensure that that sector of society doesn't get pushed down, - it made that mistake itself a few years ago by putting many critical government services online, out of reach of citizens who couldn't even get web access.
Just buy it online.
Speaking as someone who was born in the early 60s, just about everyone I know does have a smartphone, including people older than me.
No, slow if you're stuck behind a passenger whocan't make their mind up on which ticket, or a staff member who needs to learn to be faster.
Who needs it when I can pick my. ticket at leisure at home and just get straight on the train?
In theory this is excellent.A ticket office can at least control this problem to some extent by either refusing to sell if the time is inappropriate, or advising the passenger of the ticket restrictions.
Encouraging passengers to buy online or at a machine also increases the likelihood of ticket irregularities and a subsequent loss of revenue for the railway as the passenger can pick and choose their ticket at will and potentially end up travelling on peak services with off peak tickets, either deliberately or because they are none the wiser; a fair number probably don't bother to look at the ticket restrictions on the website.
A ticket office can at least control this problem to some extent by either refusing to sell if the time is inappropriate, or advising the passenger of the ticket restrictions.
So in a world when so much is online to the benefit of customers, you want rail to not follow that in order to protect revenue. Who wants the customer unfriendly railway of the 1970s?I suspect you are exaggerating on the latter point.
Encouraging passengers to buy online or at a machine also increases the likelihood of ticket irregularities and a subsequent loss of revenue for the railway as the passenger can pick and choose their ticket at will and potentially end up travelling on peak services with off peak tickets, either deliberately or because they are none the wiser; a fair number probably don't bother to look at the ticket restrictions on the website.
A ticket office can at least control this problem to some extent by either refusing to sell if the time is inappropriate, or advising the passenger of the ticket restrictions.
So in a world when so much is online to the benefit of customers, you want rail to not follow that in order to protect revenue. Who wants the customer unfriendly railway of the 1970s?
As far as whether I am exaggerating re: smartphones, I am struck by the number of Zoom calls I have been on over the past year in which friends in their 60s and 70s have participated, clearly on smartphones rather than laptops as you can tell by the image moving that they are holding it in their hand.
You mention "the customer unfriendly railway of the 1970s", is this just a cliche? Not sure how online or TVM ticket technology can be described as 'friendly'; a friendly human being behind the glass selling tickets and helping with the customer's travel on the other hand...
Even with online tickets running off a journey planner system, it doesn't stop a passenger buying the off peak ticket and then turning up earlier in the peak hours. Many stations don't have barriers; for those that do some of the gateline staff don't check the ticket properly and then some guards don't bother checking.
A well run booking office at a busy station will ensure ticket revenue loss is kept to a minimum, and will be a lot more helping in assisting a passenger's journey than any website.
I've always bought tickets either through the train company's website, using a machine at the station or at a manned ticket booth. Is there an app which allows you to buy a ticket and store it on a phone, which can be easily retrieved when someone wants to check it?
You are talking about total exclusion to anybody that cannot use these online methods. I (and some others) are saying that the railway as a 'public transport' system can offer them but not bar those who cannot accept that offer.So in a world when so much is online to the benefit of customers, you want rail to not follow that in order to protect revenue. Who wants the customer unfriendly railway of the 1970s?
You will find that many of the Zoom calls that senior people have been using over the last year have been set up by younger friends/relatives with very explicit instructions. In addition, given the difficulties that many older people have with their eyesight, a large number of them have tablets to see their callers on.As far as whether I am exaggerating re: smartphones, I am struck by the number of Zoom calls I have been on over the past year in which friends in their 60s and 70s have participated, clearly on smartphones rather than laptops as you can tell by the image moving that they are holding it in their hand.