Should LNER be serving additional locations such as Huddersfield, away from their core route?

[DanNCL]

LNER should be focussing on their core route. They’re still suffering shortages of working 80xs despite still having a reduced timetable in place. If axing extensions like those to Harrogate, Bradford and Sunderland allow more services on the core routes to run formed of 9 or 10 coaches instead of 5 its worth it as it’ll benefit a much greater number of people than it would inconvenience.

The Harrogate extensions in particular irritate me, as they not only add in an extra all day diagram on the Leeds route, but add in what is an otherwise unnecessary bi-mode requirement to some of those diagrams, which on a bad day can see 5 car sets running full diagrams whilst working Mark 4 sets or (much more rarely) 9 car 801s sit idle as there’s no suitable work for them.

Lincoln at the very least there’s the justification for the LNER services on the basis that EMR don’t provide a frequent enough link to the ECML from Lincoln. Harrogate has a 30 minute frequency from Northern to Leeds, it’s really not the end of the world if people have to walk the short distance between Platform 0 and Platform 6 at Leeds station to connect onto a London train.

 

[HST43257]

LNER should be focussing on their core route. They’re still suffering shortages of working 80xs despite still having a reduced timetable in place. If axing extensions like those to Harrogate, Bradford and Sunderland allow more services on the core routes to run formed of 9 or 10 coaches instead of 5 its worth it as it’ll benefit a much greater number of people than it would inconvenience.

The Harrogate extensions in particular irritate me, as they not only add in an extra all day diagram on the Leeds route, but add in what is an otherwise unnecessary bi-mode requirement to some of those diagrams, which on a bad day can see 5 car sets running full diagrams whilst working Mark 4 sets or (much more rarely) 9 car 801s sit idle as there’s no suitable work for them.

This is why I see the only sensible Leeds extensions as Bradford FS or Skipton as it stands.

Lincoln at the very least there’s the justification for the LNER services on the basis that EMR don’t provide a frequent enough link to the ECML from Lincoln.

What I’d try to do with the Lincoln service is make the most out of the service without using extra units - at least get to Barnetby and ideally Grimsby, rather than a 1h20 turnaround at Lincoln.

Harrogate has a 30 minute frequency from Northern to Leeds, it’s really not the end of the world if people have to walk the short distance between Platform 0 and Platform 6 at Leeds station to connect onto a London train.

Agreed, in nearly all cases (are there any P9+ LNER terminators?) there is level access between P6/8 and P0-5

 

[TheBigD]

What I’d try to do with the Lincoln service is make the most out of the service without using extra units - at least get to Barnetby and ideally Grimsby, rather than a 1h20 turnaround at Lincoln.

Way back when the Eureka timetable was being planned (2011?) the initial proposal was for the then NXEC franchise to get 5 X 180 and the Lincoln services would have a fill in to Newark and back instead of the 1hr20m turnaround at Lincoln.
Sensibly NXEC ditched the idea to get 180s pretty early on, which lead to the services only running between Newark and London.

 

[class26]

Using your own criteria, the likes of Bradford, Hull and Lincoln would be far better off losing direct London services and instead benefit by better quality local connectivity because why should some of the destinations you've care to name have a better service then others?

Another point I like to argue is why should LNER have to run Newark Northgate to Lincoln hourly when East Midlands Railway currently run a 1tp2h service, what makes you think that a hourly IC service should be provided?

But Lincoln NEVER had a "quality" service to Newark, it has a 153 and as a consequence most drove to Newark. I have counted numbers recently on direct Lincoln to Kings X services and those i have witnessed look healthy. 11 in first on midday departure from Lincoln for example. and almost 100 in total,. Not bad in my book.

 

[43096]

Way back when the Eureka timetable was being planned (2011?) the initial proposal was for the then NXEC franchise to get 5 X 180 and the Lincoln services would have a fill in to Newark and back instead of the 1hr20m turnaround at Lincoln.
Sensibly NXEC ditched the idea to get 180s pretty early on, which lead to the services only running between Newark and London.

The initial proposal for the NXEC franchise was for four sets of locomotive hauled mark 3s to come in to the franchise with Class 90s powering them.

The vehicles allocated were:
RFM: 10231/240/253/259
FO: 11006/007/011/018/026/040
TSO: 12008/017/022/029/036/045/047/054/059/063/065/083/087/092/094/095/101/124/134/139/142/144/156/158/160/163
DVT: 82111/124/125/140

 

[Manutd1999]

Let GC run the route; they can split at Kirkgate, run half to Halifax and Bradford Interchange as now, the other half to Huddersfield. That way, Huddersfield gets a daytime service.

I agree, Huddersfield would be best served by GC via Wakefield. Instead of splitting, why not just serve both destinations separately?

GC could run ~8 trains per day to West Yorkshire. 4 continue to Halifax and Bradford (as now) and 4 go to Huddersfield.

 

[matacaster]

I agree, Huddersfield would be best served by GC via Wakefield. Instead of splitting, why not just serve both destinations separately?

GC could run ~8 trains per day to West Yorkshire. 4 continue to Halifax and Bradford (as now) and 4 go to Huddersfield.

Are you proposing the Huddersfield services lay over there after terminating? If so which platform would they sit in, if not where would they be held?

 

[Neptune]

I agree, Huddersfield would be best served by GC via Wakefield. Instead of splitting, why not just serve both destinations separately?

GC could run ~8 trains per day to West Yorkshire. 4 continue to Halifax and Bradford (as now) and 4 go to Huddersfield.

As GC failed to get a 5th West Riding path a few years back I very much doubt they’ll get 8.

 

[Ken H]

This is why I see the only sensible Leeds extensions as Bradford FS or Skipton as it stands.


What I’d try to do with the Lincoln service is make the most out of the service without using extra units - at least get to Barnetby and ideally Grimsby, rather than a 1h20 turnaround at Lincoln.


Agreed, in nearly all cases (are there any P9+ LNER terminators?) there is level access between P6/8 and P0-5

I have seen LNER services in the low numbered bays. Some careful platforming could give cross platform change.

 

[EastisECML]

Having a bunch of branches seems like asking for complication. I think the only additional services outside of the London to Edinburgh and Leeds services that might be worth a go is a Leeds to Cambridge stopping service.

 

[Manutd1999]

Are you proposing the Huddersfield services lay over there after terminating? If so which platform would they sit in, if not where would they be held?

Could you not move the Leeds stoppers into the bay platforms and use Platform 4?

As GC failed to get a 5th West Riding path a few years back I very much doubt they’ll get 8.

Realistically it won't happen, but it would be nice to see Perhaps in a post-franchise, GBR world where the paths can be more significantly re-jigged / better utilised.