South Wales 'Metro' updates

[AdamWW]

Unlikely to be more than one train at a time between Aberdare and Hitwaun anyway, so "one tram in steam"!

I think line of sight operation gets you more than not having to have block signalling. If the way the Croyton trams operate is permitted for new schemes it would mean fewer restrictions on level crossings (as suggested below) and indeed no need to even fence off the right of way.

Though if it was wired, the rules for 25 kV operation might be somewhat stricter than at tramway voltages.

Just needs relaying plus if operating as a tramway makes it easier regarding the situation with the two level crossings

 

[Tumbleweed]

I read somwhere that the problem with Hirwaun is that level crossing in Robertstown. It's too close to the roundabout leading off the A4059 bypass. It was fine for once a day coal trains but a regular 4 trains per hour passenger service?

 

[anthony263]

I read somwhere that the problem with Hirwaun is that level crossing in Robertstown. It's too close to the roundabout leading off the A4059 bypass. It was fine for once a day coal trains but a regular 4 trains per hour passenger service?

Probably only going to be 2tph going beyond aberdare to Hirwaun.

I've been a regular user of the Croydon tramlink some of the crossings on tje Wimbledon branch have trams every 5 minutes and those roads are busy so this won't be a problem

 

[Western 52]

I read somwhere that the problem with Hirwaun is that level crossing in Robertstown. It's too close to the roundabout leading off the A4059 bypass. It was fine for once a day coal trains but a regular 4 trains per hour passenger service?

I think that crossing was operated by the crew of the Tower Colliery coal trains, and would need to be automated in some way for regular passenger trains.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I think that crossing was operated by the crew of the Tower Colliery coal trains, and would need to be automated in some way for regular passenger trains.

Will not be an issue if the "trains" are tram trains running on the, usual for trams, "line of sight" rules.

 

[Krokodil]

Will not be an issue if the "trains" are tram trains running on the, usual for trams, "line of sight" rules.

You're going to have to make some changes, at the very least removing the gates! They will probably introduce some sort of automated crossing, whether that's with barriers or the traffic lights used in other areas where trams interact with road traffic.

 

[Peter Sarf]

You're going to have to make some changes, at the very least removing the gates! They will probably introduce some sort of automated crossing, whether that's with barriers or the traffic lights used in other areas where trams interact with road traffic.

Thats true the old gates would have to go. The resulting crossing would be like those all over Croydon Tramlink.

 

[Krokodil]

Presumably with "Give Way" or even "Stop" markings on the road.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Presumably with "Give Way" or even "Stop" markings on the road.

In Croydon centre the crossings are part of the traffic light controlled road junctions really. Plenty of on street running as well. Further out I think some maybe stop (and look) on less frequent roads. TBH depends how busy the road is in the Valleys but thinking about it proximity to a roundabout might be a factor balanced by a lot lower frequency than the Croydon trams.

 

[Western 52]

I think the crossing is something like 4 car lengths from the roundabout. The A4059 can be busy at times, but the road over the crossing is quieter. If 4tph go to Hirwaun, it will close 8 times per hour.

Are any intermediate stops planned between Aberdare and Hirwaun?

 

[anthony263]

I think the crossing is something like 4 car lengths from the roundabout. The A4059 can be busy at times, but the road over the crossing is quieter. If 4tph go to Hirwaun, it will close 8 times per hour.

Are any intermediate stops planned between Aberdare and Hirwaun?

Trecynon there's plans to build a station at

 

[Krokodil]

I think the crossing is something like 4 car lengths from the roundabout. The A4059 can be busy at times, but the road over the crossing is quieter. If 4tph go to Hirwaun, it will close 8 times per hour.

That crossing is already equipped with barriers and I'd expect them to continue to be used. The two gated ones in Hirwaun are on minor roads well away from junctions.

 

[Last Hurrah]

While tram trains are soon to be used, won’t heavy rail vehicles still be able to run to Aberdare should the need ever arise

That being the case, for uniformity, wouldn’t the extension to Hirwaun need to be on the same basis as the rest of the branch ?

 

[Peter Sarf]

While tram trains are soon to be used, won’t heavy rail vehicles still be able to run to Aberdare should the need ever arise

That being the case, for uniformity, wouldn’t the extension to Hirwaun need to be on the same basis as the rest of the branch ?

That is a good question, I suspect the crossings will have to be to heavy rail standards unless a derogation is possible (e.g. along the lines of a staff member walking in front of a real train with a red flag).

 

[Bob Price]

While tram trains are soon to be used, won’t heavy rail vehicles still be able to run to Aberdare should the need ever arise

That being the case, for uniformity, wouldn’t the extension to Hirwaun need to be on the same basis as the rest of the branch ?

On paper yes they will but there are no plans to do this. The Aberdare line will be 100% tram train.

 

[edwin_m]

Heavy rail engineering trains would still be able to operate, using tramway-type crossings under special arrangements (which might indeed involve red flags or the modern equivalent). If this extension was to go ahead, I can't see them putting in full-scale level crossings for the vanishingly unlikely circumstance of tram-trains being replaced by more conventional vehicles. If that ever happened the crossings would have to be re-built to heavy rail standards or closed entirely.

 

[WelshBluebird]

That being the case, for uniformity, wouldn’t the extension to Hirwaun need to be on the same basis as the rest of the branch ?

Out of curiosity why would that need to be the case? Couldn't it just be done so that heavy rail can operate as far as Aberdare and anything wanting to go further to Hirwauen needs to support tram ways of operating? I'm not sure why the rules would need to be identical along the entire length of the branch.

 

[John R]

I’d like to think that an extension to Hirwaun could be a textbook example of how to reopen a line without gold plating. Does a line that was used for heavy freight until a couple of years ago need relaying, as an example - even if it meant a lower speed profile.

Sadly, I suspect it will suffer the same high costs that appear endemic in the rail industry.

 

[Dai Corner]

I’d like to think that an extension to Hirwaun could be a textbook example of how to reopen a line without gold plating. Does a line that was used for heavy freight until a couple of years ago need relaying, as an example - even if it meant a lower speed profile.

Sadly, I suspect it will suffer the same high costs that appear endemic in the rail industry.

I thought one of the reasons for the Welsh Government acquiring the core valley lines was to avoid the gold plating that Network Rail apply? They'll still be subject to ORR requirements of course.

 

[AdamWW]

While tram trains are soon to be used, won’t heavy rail vehicles still be able to run to Aberdare should the need ever arise

That being the case, for uniformity, wouldn’t the extension to Hirwaun need to be on the same basis as the rest of the branch ?

So far I know the intention is for the line between Queen Street and Cardiff Bay to operate under line of sight rules, with heavy rail no longer able to use the line (except presumably during a posession).

That being the case, I would have thought a similar arrangement at the other end of a route would be acceptable, and indeed purchasing tram trains would seem to be a poor decision if future extensions aren't permitted to be run under line of sight rules.

 

[positron]

Yeah the whole point is that stuff such as north west corridor and extensions in the bay along with potential rerouting in Merthyr would all be cheaper to achieve.

 

[56xx]

Anybody know why there is such heavy security at Quakers Yard Station? 5 persons this afternoon.

 

[Markdvdman]

They are at Quakers Yard until March - apparently to guide people with the new platforms in mind and all that. Baffling and a complete waste of money but what do we know eh?

 

[Dai Corner]

They are at Quakers Yard until March - apparently to guide people with the new platforms in mind and all that. Baffling and a complete waste of money but what do we know eh?

According to Journeycheck, there is currently no platform lighting at Quakers Yard so I could understand them having people there for safety reasons while it's dark, but not all day.

 

[56xx]

Ah. That does make some sort of sense because it was just going dark when I saw them. Also one of the issues with the local residents was light pollution so I guess they are working on some sort of canopy or shade for each of the offending platform lights.

 

[Western 52]

Have the security staff been issues with plenty of torches?

 

[56xx]

Nice to see that Llandaf Station Platform 1 Canopy has finally been repaired.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

They are at Quakers Yard until March - apparently to guide people with the new platforms in mind and all that. Baffling and a complete waste of money but what do we know eh?

And with ideas completely and utterly above their station. Cardiff, Valleys and Newport area TfW is absolutely littered with agency security, and they're clearly very bored because they all love to impose made up rules on people.

"You're too close to the platform edge" - nowhere near the yellow line
"You can't take photos here" - a selfie on a phone
"You can't travel with a hockey stick because it could touch the new wires" - I know for a fact you can, I've been using the train to get to practice at the rink for years
"You have too many bags, you're only allowed two" - since when was this Ryanair?

I even got told off for standing up on a 170 going to Ebbw Vale once.
"There's quite clearly plenty of seats mate, so you have to admit it looks suspicious if you're stood"

 

[stuu]

I even got told off for standing up on a 170 going to Ebbw Vale once.
"There's quite clearly plenty of seats mate, so you have to admit it looks suspicious if you're stood"

I have had that too, on XC though, not in South Wales... TM didn't actually say why, just said I should sit down because there are seats available, and this was definitely him giving an order rather than trying to be helpful. I said I was only going one stop and he asked me to sit down again. Very strange

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I have had that too, on XC though, not in South Wales... TM didn't actually say why, just said I should sit down because there are seats available, and this was definitely him giving an order rather than trying to be helpful. I said I was only going one stop and he asked me to sit down again. Very strange

I hope you told him that there is absolutely no obligation to remain seated as on an aircraft, and would encourage you to please issue a complaint to CrossCountry, as this sort of thing should be nipped in the bud.

Returning to the thread topic, has much more progress been made with replacing the horribly faded and dirty Arriva Rail Alphabet/turquoise signage? Heath High Level's looked disgraceful when I saw it a few months back.