Stations rebranded to Great British Railways design / Rail Alphabet 2

[Goldfish62]

Agr

The new metal posts make it more presentable too. Slapping a new sticker on a damaged sign with fading paint on the posts doesn't make the same good impression.

Agreed. Brushed aluminium posts set it off and make it look professional. This is the first time I've seen RA2 actually looking fit for purpose.

 

[physics34]

I'm currently on an LNER service which has just called at Retford, travelling north.

On the northbound platform some of the station name signs have had the old letter stickers removed, a half hearted effort has been made at removing the residue etc where they were stuck, and the new font stickers have then been stuck on.

Are the finances really so tight that a few new signs couldn't have been sourced? I'd think a new sign would have been quicker to put up too!

Standards are low, nobody cares anymore. Being average is king! Not good

There we go, when done properly RA2 looks excellent. Keeps the existing TOC branding to the bare minimum and easily replaceable or removable, and looks like it won't blow away in a slight breeze.

Arrows not the ones that are gonna be used, so still can see this being very temporary

 

[Goldfish62]

Arrows not the ones that are gonna be used, so still can see this being very temporary

Are you able to give us any details on how the double arrow will appear?

 

[birchesgreen]

The exterior of Okehampton

Nice, though is the bottom arrow slightly bigger or is it an optical illusion?

 

[Goldfish62]

Nice, though is the bottom arrow slightly bigger or is it an optical illusion?

Looks normal to me!

 

[Hb06_]

I'm not sure whether this is the right thread for it, but I've just seen this on LinkedIn from a GBR PowerPoint presentation... Does this mean anything do we think, or is it just the GBRTT logo?

 

[tomuk]

I'm not sure whether this is the right thread for it, but I've just seen this on LinkedIn from a GBR PowerPoint presentation... Does this mean anything do we think, or is it just the GBRTT logo?

View attachment 105680

Very XP64

 

[Goldfish62]

Very XP64

Certainly is!

 

[HYPODERMIC]

I'm not sure whether this is the right thread for it, but I've just seen this on LinkedIn from a GBR PowerPoint presentation... Does this mean anything do we think, or is it just the GBRTT logo?

View attachment 105680

My gut instinct is that this is just a quick thing done to give the Transition Team a brand mark.

GBRTT seems to be an extremely small team grappling with absolutely foundational industry issues - ie the size, shape and structure of the future railway. I get the impression that the work to create and staff-up GBR is still at an extremely early stage - a whole host of critical issues seem to be very uncertain and the legislation to make it all happen seems to be a long way off yet.

I wouldn't be surprised if we were still a year or two away from having any detailed GBR identity/branding plans - other than the RA2 design manual stuff - as I think DfT/GBRTT will want to figure out how GBR will be structured and operate before they turn to branding issues. (Although perhaps the branding people at Network Rail have already started to think about this sort of thing, as I think RA2 was originally only intended to be used at NR stations?)

 

[Kite159]

Holmes chapel, Goostrey, Alderley Edge and Handforth all have new rail alphabet 2 signage

I noticed it at Handforth a couple weekends back, looked like all the signs have gone GBR, including the ones with the station name in different styles from around the country & world.

 

[HarryL]

(Although perhaps the branding people at Network Rail have already started to think about this sort of thing, as I think RA2 was originally only intended to be used at NR stations?)

RA2 was always intended to be used everywhere in signage, though had franchising not died, the TOCs would have still retained their brands on trains and such.

There are also other manuals and documents that were released alongside the signage one that state the Network Rail brand was supposed to eventually be faded out of public facing roles with more emphasis put on the double arrow. So while GBR has changed that plan a bit, it's basically complemented it perfectly in timing.

 

[the sniper]

I'm not sure whether this is the right thread for it, but I've just seen this on LinkedIn from a GBR PowerPoint presentation... Does this mean anything do we think, or is it just the GBRTT logo?

View attachment 105680

Oh boy... I was going to joke that they're going to put everything in BR/Rail blue livery, but I thought it a tad too ridiculous!

To be fair, everything in a current Southeastern like livery wouldn't be a bad thing. Blue could be done quite smartly.

 

[JaJaWa]

@MrTimDunn: What’s that…? YES! It’s the British Rail “double arrow” logo on all the new signage at Okehampton (apart from the heritage style ones) - complete with the nee #railAlphabet2 typography. Smashing AND LOOK! It’s officially on the network: there’s a proper Digital info screen

https://twitter.com/mrtimdunn/status/1460897997810802688

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looks great with a bit of colour, as I've said all along.

 

[the sniper]

Looks great with a bit of colour, as I've said all along.

Indeed, much better. Let's hope it inspires the powers that be ahead of GBR...

 

[Crosslinker]

I'm not sure whether this is the right thread for it, but I've just seen this on LinkedIn from a GBR PowerPoint presentation... Does this mean anything do we think, or is it just the GBRTT logo?

View attachment 105680

It's on their website too... https://gbrtt.co.uk/

 

[Bletchleyite]

Crikey, welcome to 1985!

(Is that RA2 or RA?)

 

[domcoop7]

For the counter point of view...

@_doublearrow on Twitter.

The badly drawn 'parallel-armed' symbol has been squashed; the wrong cut of #RailAlphabet2 (Text Bold, rather than the specially designed, economically spaced Sign Medium) has been used; and there is no sensible rationale for vertical alignment (neither x-height nor cap-height)

[Image on tweet shows the correct drawing overlaid onto the sign as actually produced]

 

[physics34]

For the counter point of view...

I did indeed think the text looked bolder than other RA2 lettering seen on signs so far

 

[Rick1984]

https://www.railforums.co.uk/attachments/541b1401-e0b9-45be-9977-9583810ce070-jpeg.105112/
The bigger sign looks ok with the double arrow, but it's really not needed on the one on the stairs

Interesting mock up doublearrow on Twitter just posted:

XP22? Interesting (if a little nostalgic) take on the Great British Railways brand provided by the Institution of Mechanical Engineers (http://imeche.org) presumably using a GWR IET as a starting point…

I

I actually quite like that. Looks nice in that blue

 

[GatwickDepress]

@MrTimDunn: What’s that…? YES! It’s the British Rail “double arrow” logo on all the new signage at Okehampton (apart from the heritage style ones) - complete with the nee #railAlphabet2 typography. Smashing AND LOOK! It’s officially on the network: there’s a proper Digital info screen

https://twitter.com/mrtimdunn/status/1460897997810802688

Nice use of colour and branding. The double arrows with local line branding looks remarkably smart.

 

[Trainfan2019]

Spotted at Crewe this morning...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Side by side comparison - interesting. Looks awful. The arrow doesn't fit (looks like a child drew it), and the BR logo being overused. And the font looks clunky and awkward.

Get Best Impressions in.

 

[Watershed]

Unfortunately it looks to have made its way onto several other Avanti stations in the last few days.

 

[thomalex]

I really like it, it's night and day compared to the existing sign. Nice, big arrow, clear text and a splash of colour from the double arrow. It's much more legible.

The older sign looks muddy by comparison, the small arrow gets lost with the P symbol and the red underline doesn't signify anything (or does it?).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I really like it, it's night and day compared to the existing sign. Nice, big arrow, clear text and a splash of colour from the double arrow. It's much more legible.

The older sign looks muddy by comparison, the small arrow gets lost with the P symbol and the red underline doesn't signify anything (or does it?).

The red is "adding a splash of colour". To me it works much better than the overuse of the BR symbol which is little better than the way First used to splash the F-in-circle everywhere. Overbranding is grossly annoying.

 

[Non Multi]

The more I see it rolled out, the more I've wondered why they didn't just modestly update the original Rail Alphabet manual and use original RA for physical signage and wayfinding, and roll out the RA2 typeface for solely electronic applications.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The more I see it rolled out, the more I've wondered why they didn't just modestly update the original Rail Alphabet manual and use original RA for physical signage and wayfinding, and roll out the RA2 typeface for solely electronic applications.

Perhaps because the original RA is horrendously dated. Imagine if TFL still used the original Johnstone.

 

[HarryL]

The more I see it rolled out, the more I've wondered why they didn't just modestly update the original Rail Alphabet manual and use original RA for physical signage and wayfinding, and roll out the RA2 typeface for solely electronic applications.

Because times have changed ultimately. The world has a much better understanding/care towards legibility and accessibility than it did in the 60s and the new guidelines have to take all of that into account. The original Rail Alphabet while iconic, has a number of flaws that would prevent it being used in modern applications, not least that it has no proper digitalised version so would have to be redrawn anyway. Rail Alphabet 2 was designed by Margaret Calvert and Henrik Kubel, so it was in good hands and one can view it as what the original Rail Alphabet would have looked like had it been made today.

Using different versions of a typeface wouldn't really work in reality, even TfLs iconic Johnston has been redrawn multiple times with the original long since unused for much the same reason as RA here. Non transport related typefaces get the same treatment too, take Helvetica, that has been redrawn plenty of times over the years as needs have changed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The more I see it rolled out, the more I've wondered why they didn't just modestly update the original Rail Alphabet manual and use original RA for physical signage and wayfinding, and roll out the RA2 typeface for solely electronic applications.

@HarryL has given a good answer, but I would add "because it looks really, really dated". That is not a good look for the railway. I don't really like RA2, but at least it has a modern look.