Surfers call on GWR to review board-on-trains ban

[Clarence Yard]

The DfT regard the summer service in the west as a bit of a nuisance. I had to answer a load of idiotic questions during the DA process which indicated some there really didn't want to pay for the existing additional summer trains, let alone anything else.

As to the 802 units, they had to be identical inside to the 800 units for the DfT to approve them. I would have hoped that GWR would have roaded the surfboards to Newquay from stations from Bristol (for a small fee) but banning them became the easier option.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Not sure if I have ever seen a surfboard
How heavy is one, how wide, how long?

 

[DB]

The luggage space only really ever existed because it was a huge empty area not fit for passengers. I feel there would be an equal riot if passengers were jammed into the vestibules while a large open space down the end existed in case someone had a surfboard.

It existed because it was designed as a luggage space! There's also a useful amount of space in the TGS.

This issue was entirely predictable, and one of the failings of the IEPs - they don't have sufficient luggage space, whatever type of luggage it is.

 

[JonathanH]

How much does it cost to hire a surfboard for a week in the tourist locations? How much would surfers be prepared to pay to take their surfboards by train? How much does it cost to send the surfboard by 'post'?

What makes anyone think a surfboard should be conveyed by train other than it used to be possible to do so?

 

[fgwrich]

Not sure if I have ever seen a surfboard
How heavy is one, how wide, how long?

Most are quite light, being made from Fibreglass. Size wise - they range from 5.8ft to 9ft, though the average is around 7 / 7.6ft. But they can be stacked quite easy (when in cases).

That doesn't surprise me at all @Clarence Yard, though in the era of the so called "stay-cation", it would have been nice if someone in there could have had the foresight to see such services remain popular and that luggage spaces should have been designed to suit.

 

[DB]

What makes anyone think a surfboard should be conveyed by train other than it used to be possible to do so?

The fact that they've been taken by train for as long as there have been surfers is surely a pretty good reason? If the government wants to reduce the number of cars then blocking a whole category of people from using the trains really is not the way to go about it.

 

[swt_passenger]

How much does it cost to hire a surfboard for a week in the tourist locations? How much would surfers be prepared to pay to take their surfboards by train? How much does it cost to send the surfboard by 'post'?

What makes anyone think a surfboard should be conveyed by train other than it used to be possible to do so?

I expect surfers would expect to pay about the same as cyclists...

 

[DB]

The DfT regard the summer service in the west as a bit of a nuisance. I had to answer a load of idiotic questions during the DA process which indicated some there really didn't want to pay for the existing additional summer trains, let alone anything else.

Sounds like there is still no understanding in government circles of seasonal demand!

 

[fgwrich]

How much does it cost to hire a surfboard for a week in the tourist locations? How much would surfers be prepared to pay to take their surfboards by train? How much does it cost to send the surfboard by 'post'?

What makes anyone think a surfboard should be conveyed by train other than it used to be possible to do so?

Surfboards are like bikes, they can cost a considerable amount and can be produced to suit the owners sizes or skill level. Most hire boards are naff and designed to be used by Mr Smith and his family enjoying a day at the beach. As for sending anything by post - would you trust most courriers these days not to put a dent in a board? Or to even convey such an item by post / courier? Also, Surfing is an Olympic sport - Should we tell cyclists, or skiers etc that they shouldn't bring convey their items by train other than it used to be possible to do so?

 

[Bletchleyite]

When did the sleeper start calling at Newquay?

Most of the 80x don't either other than Saturdays (?). You take a connecting local service from Par.

Should we tell cyclists, or skiers etc that they shouldn't bring convey their items by train other than it used to be possible to do so?

I thought skis weren't carried due to their length.

 

[fgwrich]

Most of the 80x don't either other than Saturdays (?). You take a connecting local service from Par.



I thought skis weren't carried due to their length.

I'm not so sure as I've left working at my former station now, though we did use to get a increase of passengers with Skies / Snowboards towards the winter months headed towards the RailAir buses to Heathrow.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Using XC as an example: https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/on-board-with-crosscountry/luggage

Please ask permission from the Train Manager before boarding with large items of luggage. Large items of luggage, such as skis, can only be taken on board if they are able to be safely stored in the luggage area and if this has been agreed with the Train Manager. However, surfboards and snowboards cannot be taken on board our services.

If a guard can say no, that's de-facto that they aren't carried, I guess, because you can't plan a trip on that basis!

 

[fgwrich]

When I say LNER have been lucky so far, this was the scene in Edinburgh Waverley on the 11th of August 2019, with every useable space being used. And that was with a 9 coach HST set (very busy from Aberdeen - I boarded it at Dundee). The problem is, the IET has been designed around seating capacity. Wonderful for those who complain about a lack of seats, but luggage has been an after thought. Be-it on the route to the seaside resorts of the South West or up to Edinburgh and the Highlands.

 

[dk1]

Unit+van+Unit I assume. Would have to run all day like that even supposing platforms could take 11 vehicles.

Back in the day FGW used to add an extra TGS to the set working the morning Padd-Newquay purely for luggage space. The extra vehicle would go in at St Philip’s Marsh overnight and the 2+9 set would work Bristol-Padd-Newquay-Padd-Bristol.

With Hitachi units not only would it be prohibitively expensive but it would be an operational nightmare. Not worth it for a few seasonal surfers who are probably travelling on heavily discounted tickets.

 

[geoffk]

Slightly digressing, but relevant to the GWR IETs and their limited capacity for luggage, what happened to the Cornish lobsters that were taken to London by HST?

 

[dk1]

Slightly digressing, but relevant to the GWR IETs and their limited capacity for luggage, what happened to the Cornish lobsters that were taken to London by HST?

I read somewhere recently that GWR gave up transporting them after the 802s where introduced. They now go by road.

 

[mmh]

Surfing is an Olympic sport - Should we tell cyclists, or skiers etc that they shouldn't bring convey their items by train other than it used to be possible to do so?

So is weightlifting, but you don't see them carting weights around on holiday. Not sure this is a great analogy. The Olympic cyclists' competition bikes don't go on holiday with them, by train or not.

 

[Ianno87]

Most of the 80x don't either other than Saturdays (?). You take a connecting local service from Par.

One heck of a wait at Par for the next train off the sleeper! (2 and a half hours to be precise)

Better of getting off at St Austell then the bus (although good luck with a surfboard on that too!).

 

[mmh]

How much does it cost to hire a surfboard for a week in the tourist locations?

That's a sensible solution, so it'll be discounted. Sports tourists are often the bane of holiday areas. They will bleat that they are vital to a region's economy, yet spend as little as possible when they arrive. Perhaps harsh, but I'm afraid my experience of them leaves my heart not bleeding.

 

[geoffk]

If the focus of railways post-Covid is away from commuting towards more leisure travel, then carriage of passengers' luggage, especially large items like skateboards, must take a higher priority in the design of new trains, and older trains may need internal alterations. There is also the opportunity to carry small items of freight (whether shellfish, medical samples or other time-sensitive items) on passenger trains provided space is designed in at the outset. We used to do this before the railways became so fragmented. Unfortunately the present culture, no doubt coming from DfT, is focussed on maximising the number of seats above all other considerations.

 

[DorkingMain]

It existed because it was designed as a luggage space! There's also a useful amount of space in the TGS.

This issue was entirely predictable, and one of the failings of the IEPs - they don't have sufficient luggage space, whatever type of luggage it is.

It was deemed inappropriate for passengers to travel in that space. Although HSTs were excellent for what they did, 40m of the length of the train being unusable space that only bulky luggage and the guard can go in is not massively efficient.

That's a sensible solution, so it'll be discounted. Sports tourists are often the bane of holiday areas. They will bleat that they are vital to a region's economy, yet spend as little as possible when they arrive. Perhaps harsh, but I'm afraid my experience of them leaves my heart not bleeding.

I'm also bemused at the ideas here that suggest adapting a multi-million pound fleet of trains just to make space for the odd person carrying a surfboard. Ultimately a train can only be so long and sacrifices have to be made about how the capacity is used across that length.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

I could hire a cycle, but I prefer to take my own, it is just right for me, size, gears etc. A rental cycle might be quite different and unfamiliar. Might not even be properly maintained and adjusted
Whatabout surfboard hire? Does it matter exactly what sort of surfboard one uses? I imagine it does

 

[Clarence Yard]

If the focus of railways post-Covid is away from commuting towards more leisure travel, then carriage of passengers' luggage, especially large items like skateboards, must take a higher priority in the design of new trains, and older trains may need internal alterations. There is also the opportunity to carry small items of freight (whether shellfish, medical samples or other time-sensitive items) on passenger trains provided space is designed in at the outset. We used to do this before the railways became so fragmented. Unfortunately the present culture, no doubt coming from DfT, is focussed on maximising the number of seats above all other considerations.

You forget that under BR, they were sometimes dissuaded from offering services such as you mentioned, especially when money was tight and they were effectively told to stick to the plain vanilla basics and cut out the rest.

 

[mmh]

I could hire a cycle, but I prefer to take my own, it is just right for me, size, gears etc. A rental cycle might be quite different and unfamiliar. Might not even be properly maintained and adjusted
Whatabout surfboard hire? Does it matter exactly what sort of surfboard one uses? I imagine it does

If Newquay's tourism is so dependent on surfers then there's enough of them to support rental of different types and sizes. They could even reserve them in advance, nobody is getting on a train with a surfboard on a whim. Or are they? Who are all these people who live in London and own surfboards? Why? Did they win them on Bullseye?

 

[185]

Ultimate question should be asked regarding space - why are small, 5-car "Voyager" fun size trains used, in place of longer HSTs in the first place.

In single, they are not fit for purpose. In multiple, there's masses of wasted space and energy costs with the unused centre cabs.

 

[Meerkat]

I don’t think things like surfboards are in any way compatible with modern passenger loadings and tight station stops.
Bikes are difficult enough but at last they have wheels - someone waving a seven foot surf board around through the gates, on platforms, and through train doors into vestibules is a H&S nightmare. Also how close could they get to the OLE and panto horns - presumably the carry bags have metal zips?

 

[DorkingMain]

Ultimate question should be asked regarding space - why are small, 5-car "Voyager" fun size trains used, in place of longer HSTs in the first place.

In single, they are not fit for purpose. In multiple, there's masses of wasted space and energy costs with the unused centre cabs.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that. 5 car pairs were a bizarre idea - in pairs they have no gangway, wasted cab space in the middle and the layout of lettered coaches can end up being confused. On their own they are severely inadequate.

The only situation they would have been justifiable is if there was some grandiose plan to run them as a pair down the mainline and then send one half to Newquay and one half to Penzance, for example.

 

[Domh245]

In single, they are not fit for purpose.

300 days of the year (ballpark estimate) they are

 

[DB]

It was deemed inappropriate for passengers to travel in that space. Although HSTs were excellent for what they did, 40m of the length of the train being unusable space that only bulky luggage and the guard can go in is not massively efficient.

As I said, they were designed that way - trains in those days normally had a full or half brake, which this replicated. They could have designed it with passenger accommodation in there, as with the Blue Pullman.

40m of the train is not luggage space - the engines take up a lot of that, and having them in power cars gives a better overall experience. You appear to have the view that ramming the highest number of seats into the shortest possible space is the best soution - which in some cases (commuter trains) it may well be, but it doesn't make for a very pleasant or flexible long-distance train.

300 days of the year (ballpark estimate) they are

Only at the extremities of their route - through the middle section they are always inadequate.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Having a van area is not incompatible with being a DMU. All the first generation ones did, and so do Class 156s and indeed Voyagers.