Swanage Railway announce 2023 Wareham service

[theironroad]

If it is such a good idea then SWR should have operating a service between Swanage and Wareham included in their franchise agreement and the shortfall born by taxpayers as a whole.

I believe that SWR wanted to run to Swanage more regularly (pre pandemic) but Swanage railway vetoed the idea as they wanted to run the operation themselves, as understandably it had been their aim since 1972?

Not sure of the legals, but would have thought that SWR /Network rail paying track access fees would be beneficial to SR.

That said, low line speed and no doubt a host of regulatory and operational challenges would arise.

Perplexed by the comment in the SR excerpt about over 65s free bus travel - not exactly a new thing. Bit more sympathy about the £2 as this was extended to October, no doubt well after SR made their revenue planning assumptions. However, Morebus already have (and did pre pandemic) a all day £10 rover ticket that covers Purbeck (zones ABC) and the whole BCP area and ferry travel ( while on the bus) between Sandbanks and Shell bay.

 

[Titfield]

I believe that SWR wanted to run to Swanage more regularly (pre pandemic) but Swanage railway vetoed the idea as they wanted to run the operation themselves, as understandably it had been their aim since 1972?

Not sure of the legals, but would have thought that SWR /Network rail paying track access fees would be beneficial to SR.

That said, low line speed and no doubt a host of regulatory and operational challenges would arise.

Perplexed by the comment in the SR excerpt about over 65s free bus travel - not exactly a new thing. Bit more sympathy about the £2 as this was extended to October, no doubt well after SR made their revenue planning assumptions. However, Morebus already have (and did pre pandemic) a all day £10 rover ticket that covers Purbeck (zones ABC) and the whole BCP area and ferry travel ( while on the bus) between Sandbanks and Shell bay.

Yes track access fees would be payable but they should be sent on maintaining the track and associated infrastructure. It really isnt a revenue stream to spend elsewhere.

I think it is a bit OTT for SR to blame their woes on the £2 fare. Yes it is a bit of a bummer but if Go South Coast had seen serious numbers of passengers switching to rail they would have come up with some form of competitive response*. In any case is the below forecast number of passengers because of the £2 fare or is it (or a significant part of it) because SRC was being highly optimistic. Question what section of the population is most likely to visit a heritage railway during May (school term time)? Answer: Senior Citizens those who in the main have a free bus pass. Question Which section of the population are most likely to be careful with their money? Answer Senior Citizens.

* If SRC can come up with Kids for a Quid then Go South Coast could equally come up with some form of fare initiative.

 

[The_Van]

60k seems very low for a CEO, maybe someone at the end of their career winding down might be tempted.

 

[Mainline421]

I think there are broadly three "options":
1) Ditch Wareham and concentrate on rebuilding the heritage steam railways patronage levels.
2) Continue with Wareham but with a subsidy from Dorset Council (though this requires DC to provide the grant)
3) Work very hard on a solution where a TOC provides a service to say Norden / Corfe Castle but this does not damage the heritage rail service.
(One solution would be to build a second platform at Norden so the TOC can use one platform and SRC the other. It makes sense to have two so that movements can be almost simultaneous and avoid having one train to clear the platform before the next can arrive.)

Could a TOC operate to / from Swanage early and late (when SRC is operating) but all day when SRC is not. There are many challenges to overcome in such a scenario not least with signalling, access to stations etc.

My fear is that a Wareham service operated by SRC is not only financially challenging but adds a great deal of work and complexity to a railway that is quite frankly struggling. Struggling financially, struggling to recruit and retain volunteers. Even if there was subsidy to employ staff, recruiting them on the Isle of Purbeck is far from easy and may upset the very delicate balance between volunteers and paid staff.

There's no operational reason SWR couldn't operate in the paths currently used by the Wareham services, no need to terminate at Corfe or suspend services while SR is running. It will never happen of course, but that would be the best solution for the public transport side of things. If the Tories do still want to push the "reversing Beeching" narrative though, restoring year-round early-late service could be an easy win in the run up to the next election.

The current timetable does not work for most use cases which won't be doing it any favours. Surprisingly it was perfectly timed for me yesterday though, used it to reach Corfe in place of the bus from Wareham and it seems pretty busy.

 

[yorksrob]

Only a tiny fraction of which was for Wareham to Corfe Castle. I bet buses in Dorset haven't had £5m of infrastructure and vehicle funding from public funds either.

They will be running on a lot of road network that is publicly funded ?

If we're talking about level playing fields, the bus companies had the publicly funded road network available from day one.

 

[Titfield]

There's no operational reason SWR couldn't operate in the paths currently used by the Wareham services, no need to terminate at Corfe or suspend services while SR is running. It will never happen of course but that would be the best solution for the public transport side of things. If the Tories do still want to push the "reversing Beeching" narrative though, restoring year-round early-late service could be an easy win in the run up to the next election.

The current timetable does not work for most use cases which won't be doing it any favours. Surprisingly it was perfectly timed for me yesterday though, used it to reach Corfe in place of the bus from Wareham and it seems pretty busy.

The point about terminating at Norden / Corfe Castle was to preserve and protect the core heritage steam railway as much as possible both aesthetically and from a revenue protection perspective. It is one thing to have green liveried dmus operating it is something else to have current SWR fleet mixed in. If SWR operate from a station then there would need to be swr legal notices etc etc. The other is about fares and fare structures. The two (src and swr) are incompatible in terms of levels and ts and cs for example railcard acceptance, delay repay. How the two could be mixed requires considerable investigation.

 

[zwk500]

There's no operational reason SWR couldn't operate in the paths currently used by the Wareham services, no need to terminate at Corfe or suspend services while SR is running. It will never happen of course but that would be the best solution for the public transport side of things. If the Tories do still want to push the "reversing Beeching" narrative though, restoring year-round early-late service could be an easy win in the run up to the next election.

If there's no heritage movements, what is the absolute minimum signalling requirement to safely move trains on and off the branch?

 

[Mainline421]

The point about terminating at Norden / Corfe Castle was to preserve and protect the core heritage steam railway as much as possible both aesthetically and from a revenue protection perspective. It is one thing to have green liveried dmus operating it is something else to have current SWR fleet mixed in. If SWR operate from a station then there would need to be swr legal notices etc etc.

I really don't think such things would even be a consideration. Not to mention Swanage already has electronic departure boards, computerised announcements, and a large modern bus depot right next to Swanage station. When SWR were running to Corfe it didn't really impact the ambience anyway in my opinon.

From Swanage you could price Corfe the same as Wareham to reduce the impact, perhaps even accept SRC's tickets as condition of track access. But most of SRC's customers would be looking for a Steam train and would go to to their website/ticket office, and anyone looking for the cheapest method would already opt for the bus. Non-reciprocal ticket acceptance would probably prevent too much confusion.

If there's no heritage movements, what is the absolute minimum signalling requirement to safely move trains on and off the branch?

I don't know the answer, but logically some form of token working would work.

 

[zwk500]

I don't know the answer, but logically some form of token working would work.

If it does require signallers, the you'll need to have enough trained up to cover the full service, which means it's not a quick win at all.

 

[Dai Corner]

They will be running on a lot of road network that is publicly funded ?

If we're talking about level playing fields, the bus companies had the publicly funded road network available from day one.

The train service in question runs partly on the publicly funded rail network and apparently expensive alterations were made to accommodate it.

 

[railfan99]

Sampled the Wareham service today.

Contrary to publicity, the SWR booking office at Wareham is selling Swanage tickets on CCST - and had a sizable queue for such tickets this morning.

Impressive loadings from Wareham, and plenty of passengers on and off at all stations doing all permutations of journeys.

I won't say too much but if my experience is typical then SR certainly isn't maximising its revenue collection on board. As a member wanting to support the railway I was a bit disappointed the well meaning TTI didn't work a bit harder to take my money!

All in all a good experience and very positive to see so many people taking advantage of the service

Great report and mostly encouraging, but while it may make you feel uncomfortable, shouldn't you report this TTI to SR's management?

It's essential that as much revenue as possible is collected. We are in now way critical of wonderful volunteers worldwide who give their time for free, but preserved railways need efficient revenue collection to survive and prosper.

 

[Sunil_P]

I did the journey from Wareham to Corfe Castle on Wednesday. I caught the 1005 from Waterloo, reaching Wareham by 1230, then caught the diesel at 1305 as far as Corfe Castle, reaching the latter at 1325, then returned from there at 1445 reaching Wareham by 1509. Returned to London on the 1528.

I bought my £10 return from Wareham to Corfe Castle on SRC's website, and downloaded it on my phone. There was a revenue inspector on the outbound journey, he even had a QR barcode scanner, so no probs. But no check on the journey back to Wareham. Seemed to be well patronised and the service was efficient, with the only minor hiccup being the doors weren't unlocked for almost a minute or so when we got back to Wareham.

I had previously done Swanage to Norden return back in April 2017, but back then of course, had to get the bus from Wareham to Swanage! Anyway, nice to finally do the connection to the mainline at Worgret!

 

[yorksrob]

The train service in question runs partly on the publicly funded rail network and apparently expensive alterations were made to accommodate it.

The road network is also publicly funded and requires expensive alterations.

 

[Dai Corner]

The road network is also publicly funded and requires expensive alterations.

What expensive alterations were made specifically to enable buses to run between Wareham and Corfe Castle?

 

[yorksrob]

What expensive alterations were made specifically to enable buses to run between Wareham and Corfe Castle?

The entire bus network relies on expensive alterations to run. If public funds are to be used to maintain the highway between Wareham and Swanage, why not the railway ?

 

[Dai Corner]

The entire bus network relies on expensive alterations to run. If public funds are to be used to maintain the highway between Wareham and Swanage, why not the railway ?

The bus network uses the same roads as other traffic, bar things like the specially constructed busways in Cambridge, Runcorn and Bristol , and any improvements, like those paid for by BP mentioned above, benefit all users.

It looks like the public money spent on enabling trains to run onto the Swanage Railway will be wasted as the trains don't even cover their direct costs with passengers paying commercial fares and the SR can't afford to subsidise them. Are you advocating taking the branch back into the national network and having an all-day, every day, year round service of modern DMUs at subsidised fare levels?

 

[Titfield]

What expensive alterations were made specifically to enable buses to run between Wareham and Corfe Castle?

BP paid for road improvements along the A351 so that they could have better access to (what became) the Wytch Farm Oil Field.

The road was realigned and IIRC a roundabout installed at Norden. BP (and Perenco BPs successors) paid for or very substantially towards the cost of the level crossing at Norden Gates to protect the branch line from Norden up to Furzebrook.

 

[Dai Corner]

BP paid for road improvements along the A351 so that they could have better access to (what became) the Wytch Farm Oil Field.

The road was realigned and IIRC a roundabout installed at Norden. BP (and Perenco BPs successors) paid for or very substantially towards the cost of the level crossing at Norden Gates to protect the branch line from Norden up to Furzebrook.

Nothing specifically for buses then, but quite a bit for trains.

 

[341o2]

There seems to be a negative attitude to the railway on this forum , we could all cite taxpayer's money spent on projects which either are not used by some or useless, and in the latter category I would cite Bournemouth's useless cycle erm..network, paid for by the Active Travel fund, which has resulted in numerous short disconnected sections all over the area. Now they have run out of money and construction is at a standstill.

Nothing specifically for buses then, but quite a bit for trains.

So what? What it does state is that funding for these projects came from BP/Perenco and not public funding

 

[Titfield]

The train service in question runs partly on the publicly funded rail network and apparently expensive alterations were made to accommodate it.

The Swanage branch line was severed I think sometime in the 1970s. The top section connected to the National Rail network was retained to eventually allow BP to send oil by rail in tankers. A rail oil terminal was built at Furzebrook. Eventually an underground pipeline was constructed rendering movements by rail obsolete and they were ceased. The bottom section (isolated from the top section) which had been lifted by BR was relaid by Swanage Railway over many years and is the basis of the heritage railway. Eventually (i think sometime this century) the two sections were reconnected but a stop block put in place to prevent inadvertent running onto network rail metals.

I am not sure of the date but the Poole to Wool section of the mainline was resignalled to replace a number of signal boxes and to allow control from Basingstoke Rail Operations Centre. Worgret junction was an issue. Should the junction be removed thus preventing mainline access to the branchline or should it be included at an additional cost. It was decided to include it and IIRC Dorset County Council paid the additional cost of inclusion. I think these are the costs @Dai Corner is referring to.

Eventually and with public funds the northern section of the line was improved ( improved is perhaps not the right word - it was brought back up to the required standard to allow train services to operate on it) as it had not been maintained / received absolute minimal maintenance over many years. Swanage Railway now has the responsibility of maintaining the Swanage branch line up to the network rail boundary just the Swanage side of Worgret Junction.

Swanage Railway has received or benefitted from 3 substantial tranches of public money:
1) the cost of resignalling Worgret Junction to allow access to / from the branch.
2) the cost of bringing the top section of the line back to useable standard.
3) the cost of refurbishing 2 DMUs (1 X 117 and 1 X 121) to mainline standard.

It has also received
4) the cost of installing a level crossing at Norden Gates paid for BP / Perenco
5) the cost of a DMU service centre at Corfe Castle Station

The number of trains / passengers carried over the junction and on the top section is relatively small relative to the funds used. I estimate currently a subsidy of about £300 per passenger though this will decline as more passengers use the Wareham service.

The frustration I think many in the area feel is that Swanage Railway has promised a rail service between Swanage and Wareham for many many years referencing the former British Rail service. What is now being operated in 2023 is a 90 day 4 times a day 4 days a week service at much higher than comparable mainline fares (for a similar distance) and with no commitment to operating in the future- a far cry from what BR used to provide. Many see a substantial amount of public money spent that delivers minimal benefit. and perhaps worse still "please sir we need more money" appeals from Swanage Railway.

 

[Dai Corner]

There seems to be a negative attitude to the railway on this forum , we could all cite taxpayer's money spent on projects which either are not used by some or useless, and in the latter category I would cite Bournemouth's useless cycle erm..network, paid for by the Active Travel fund, which has resulted in numerous short disconnected sections all over the area. Now they have run out of money and construction is at a standstill.

So what? What it does state is that funding for these projects came from BP/Perenco and not public funding

This part of the thread started after the SR were quoted as claiming that the subsidies given to buses resulted in unfair competition.on the Wareham-Swanage corridor. I gather that BP/Perenco funded some road and level crossing improvements to benefit their businesses which continue to benefit the area but the taxpayer funded the signalling and refurbishment of the DMUs to the tune of £5m which likely won't be used for their intended purpose after this running season.

Edit: Titfield explains it better and in more detail in his previous post. I'll seek my mother and stepfather's views as Dorset Council Tax payers.

 

[341o2]

At the moment, the fare cap is due to end later this year, and the Wareham service was always to be run on a limited number of days for three years. So far, this is the second.
Given the state of the country's economy, people just don't have the money. Prices are still rising, such as E5 fuel from £1.55/L to £1.65, and a pack of ham £1.00 to £1.20. Those two purchases alone have cost me an extra 50p.

 

[Titfield]

At the moment, the fare cap is due to end later this year, and the Wareham service was always to be run on a limited number of days for three years. So far, this is the second.
Given the state of the country's economy, people just don't have the money. Prices are still rising, such as E5 fuel from £1.55/L to £1.65, and a pack of ham £1.00 to £1.20. Those two purchases alone have cost me an extra 50p.

The fare cap has been extended to November 2024 but at £2.50 from 1 November 2023 (up from the current £2).

 

[DelW]

I've used the main line connection twice - once on a charter using SWR 159s a few years ago and once using this year's service in early July. The latter was reasonably well used: about 30 - 40 boarded the first train of the day at Wareham, then quite a lot more boarded at Norden and Corfe Castle so it was fairly full on arrival. Similarly the last return was quite full leaving Swanage, with 20 - 30 staying on to Wareham. Since it was a weekday in school term time, most of the through passengers were older age groups rather than young families, while the Corfe / Norden groups were more mixed ages.

On both occasions, my friends and I travelled there specifically because of the rail connection, and we wouldn't have gone to Swanage by car (despite having one available) or bus. So various Swanage businesses (mainly but not exclusively pubs!) benefitted from our presence because of the rail link.

If the service does continue, I could imagine us doing it as an annual day out - we regularly do similar trips to e.g. the Isle of Wight steam line (at a similar cost too).

I think cutting traffic through Corfe Castle might also be a consideration - it was gridlocked when I was there.

Being pedantic, with one main road through it and a couple of side roads, Corfe can't possibly be grid-locked, a phenomenon that occurs in (mainly American) cities when a blockage on one road spreads to adjacent parallel roads via the cross-routes. Corfe does get heavily (near permanently) congested every summer but it ain't grid-lock .

 

[Titfield]

I've used the main line connection twice - once on a charter using SWR 159s a few years ago and once using this year's service in early July. The latter was reasonably well used: about 30 - 40 boarded the first train of the day at Wareham, then quite a lot more boarded at Norden and Corfe Castle so it was fairly full on arrival. Similarly the last return was quite full leaving Swanage, with 20 - 30 staying on to Wareham. Since it was a weekday in school term time, most of the through passengers were older age groups rather than young families, while the Corfe / Norden groups were more mixed ages.

On both occasions, my friends and I travelled there specifically because of the rail connection, and we wouldn't have gone to Swanage by car (despite having one available) or bus. So various Swanage businesses (mainly but not exclusively pubs!) benefitted from our presence because of the rail link.

If the service does continue, I could imagine us doing it as an annual day out - we regularly do similar trips to e.g. the Isle of Wight steam line (at a similar cost too).


Being pedantic, with one main road through it and a couple of side roads, Corfe can't possibly be grid-locked, a phenomenon that occurs in (mainly American) cities when a blockage on one road spreads to adjacent parallel roads via the cross-routes. Corfe does get heavily (near permanently) congested every summer but it ain't grid-lock .

The passenger numbers on the service from Wareham to Swanage are being enhanced by the uplift at Norden and Corfe Castle caused by the reduction in services overall. In 2017 SRC ran a service every 40 minutes between Norden and Swanage in both directions. Peak Season was 2 X steam, shoulder was 1 X steam 1 X Class 33 and carriages. This was then further enhanced by the 4 times a day Wareham service on the 5 days a week it operated. A total of 17 services a day in each direction on a Wareham operating day. In 2023 SRC is running a service on Wareham operating days 8 times a day in each direction with a variable headway. It is a mix of steam and diesel.

The experience of 2017 was the first down from wareham and the last up to wareham were reasonably well loaded but the middle pair were quite quiet. If there are only 20 - 30 passengers to / from Wareham on a peak train that does not bode well.

One of the advantages of the high frequency was that passengers would turn up at Norden and be prepared to wait for next train with an average wait of 20 minutes. As the train round around at Norden there would be a train in the platform for C10 minutes which gave the illusion of reducing the waiting time. With a less frequent service some potential passengers wont wait but will drive to Swanage.

 

[williamn]

Id estimate that there were around 80 passengers on the 11.19 from Wareham on Tuesday this week. Certainly almost every bay of seats had people in it on departure from Wareham.

 

[yorksrob]

The bus network uses the same roads as other traffic, bar things like the specially constructed busways in Cambridge, Runcorn and Bristol , and any improvements, like those paid for by BP mentioned above, benefit all users.

It looks like the public money spent on enabling trains to run onto the Swanage Railway will be wasted as the trains don't even cover their direct costs with passengers paying commercial fares and the SR can't afford to subsidise them. Are you advocating taking the branch back into the national network and having an all-day, every day, year round service of modern DMUs at subsidised fare levels?

I'd be happy to see a compromise where the Swanage Railway received a subsidy to run a service as a TOC would.

Maybe with a more optimal timetable.

Id estimate that there were around 80 passengers on the 11.19 from Wareham on Tuesday this week. Certainly almost every bay of seats had people in it on departure from Wareham.

That sounds like a very respectable number of passengers using the service.

 

[Invincible]

This part of the thread started after the SR were quoted as claiming that the subsidies given to buses resulted in unfair competition.on the Wareham-Swanage corridor. I gather that BP/Perenco funded some road and level crossing improvements to benefit their businesses which continue to benefit the area but the taxpayer funded the signalling and refurbishment of the DMUs to the tune of £5m which likely won't be used for their intended purpose after this running season.

Edit: Titfield explains it better and in more detail in his previous post. I'll seek my mother and stepfather's views as Dorset Council Tax payers.

Think part of the logic was the investment would bring in more tourists by train, bringing in more income to the area, and a possible reduction in rates to residents. Also less traffic to improve congestion and air pollution.
Will be interesting to see if an updated business plan is published with results of the trial.

 

[Titfield]

Id estimate that there were around 80 passengers on the 11.19 from Wareham on Tuesday this week. Certainly almost every bay of seats had people in it on departure from Wareham.

But that is the first down train the morning. Based on the 2017 trial the 3 later down trains carry very few passengers indeed. The unanswerable question (unless a survey has been carried out) is how many of those passengers have only travelled from Wareham (ie new business) and would not have travelled from any other station eg. Norden.
If a passenger would have joined at Norden then the only revenue attributable to the Wareham service is the difference between the Wareham fare and the Norden fare.

The other question is how many of those were PRIVs (quite a few were seen on the 2017 trial) or Members of the Swanage Railway Trust travelling free or at reduced fare or kids travelling for £1.

 

[yorksrob]

I daresay that if the Swanage were subsidised to run the service like any TOC, prices could be brought more in line with normal fares elsewhere and passenger usage with the rest of the network could be grown substantially.