TfGM-website, timetable updates and general news concerning TfGM bus stations.

[Blackpudding]

The 'Agenda for the Bus Services Sub Committee, Greater Manchester Transport Committee' for Friday 15th January 2021 is now available via the link below.

Item 7 for January 31st 2021 changes to bus network.

Democracy-Template - Greater Manchester Combined Authority (greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk)

 

[Bungle965]

It's funny how we seem to have gone in a full circle with the 94 and 492.
The 94 to be extended to run all the way through to Bury now instead of it being two separate services. I (only just!) remember when it used to be a through service in the form of the 154 operated by First.
I seem to recall that when that was dropped and the 94 appeared it was still in the hands of First, changing hands a couple of times to the incumbent Stotts (Oldham).

The 492 is a relatively recent addition to the subsided network, I have never seen it carry that many people at all to and from Pilsworth, seems to get most of it's traffic along Manchester Road (where other non subsidised services are readily available)

The actual service that Pilsworth Retail Park now gets is a little strange to me, TfGM fund the 92 in the evenings only (extends from it's usual Prestwich terminus to serve Unsworth, Pilsworth and Bury) which means that weekday service is fine up until 18:15 when you have a 2 hour gap until the first subsidised 92.
Whereas on Sundays you have no service at all until the evening, meaning that anyone wanting to visit the retail park (which has grown significantly since the opening of Park 66, perhaps a few of you might remember the Warner Bro cinema that used to be situated there) will have to find alternative means of transport.

 

[Ianno87]

Little Gem taking over quite a few routes from 11th April:

https://twitter.com/littlegembus/status/1358838334852857857?s=19

HUGE ANNOUNCEMENT: From 11th April 2021 we are set to takeover the following bus services in and around Greater Manchester: X5, 88, 151, 245, 260, 261, 262, 281, 282, 283, 284, 285, 286, 287, 288, 335, 339, 345, 375, and 396. We will also continue with our 84A service.

 

[_toommm_]

Little Gem taking over quite a few routes from 11th April:

https://twitter.com/littlegembus/status/1358838334852857857?s=19

Is that pretty much the last of the First routes in Manchester then?

 

[markymark2000]

That's a lot of buses worth of contrats which they have won. They have said that they are stepping back on 2 contracts I think it is but overall, it's still a large win for them.

Is that pretty much the last of the First routes in Manchester then?

No First routes there. It's all TFGM tenders being won from Stotts and Diamond.

 

[_toommm_]

That's a lot of buses worth of contrats which they have won. They have said that they are stepping back on 2 contracts I think it is but overall, it's still a large win for them.


No First routes there. It's all TFGM tenders being won from Stotts and Diamond.

Ahh right, sorry. I assumed it was more First takeover.

 

[Alexbus12]

Little Gem taking over quite a few routes from 11th April:

https://twitter.com/littlegembus/status/1358838334852857857?s=19

Iirc they're all on one year contracts. Looks like come next year, there will be tears when they go out for tender again.

 

[py_megapixel]

What's Little Gem like? I've never even heard of them.

A quick Google suggests they really need to update their website, as all links on it are broken...

 

[gnolife]

What's Little Gem like? I've never even heard of them.

A quick Google suggests they really need to update their website, as all links on it are broken...

It's Go Goodwins under a different brand name

 

[py_megapixel]

It's Go Goodwins under a different brand name

I'll be honest, I've never heard of them either...

 

[peters]

Little Gem taking over quite a few routes from 11th April:

https://twitter.com/littlegembus/status/1358838334852857857?s=19

That's a lot of buses worth of contrats which they have won. They have said that they are stepping back on 2 contracts I think it is but overall, it's still a large win for them.


No First routes there. It's all TFGM tenders being won from Stotts and Diamond.

There's one, possibly two routes operated by D&G mentioned in that lot as well. If they are taking over the 88 from D&G (which isn't a TfGM contract) then that could mean there may be no Monday to Saturday services operating from D&G's Northwich depot from April. The 82 is being operated by Crewe and the current 130 contract expires in April.

I'll be honest, I've never heard of them either...

They are a coach hire company who used to be one of the main operators in south Trafford, until they sold their bus business to Diamond. Their Solos and small Enviros were a very common sight at Altrincham interchange.

 

[Ianno87]

Little Gem is a resurrection of the brand name GM Buses used to use for it's "minibus" type services.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Little Gem is a resurrection of the brand name GM Buses used to use for it's "minibus" type services.

Years ago, I remember such as bus as you describe in a picture in the Wigan area that featured a Wigan rugby league player stating......

Steve Hampson, Wigan's Little Gem.

 

[Simon75]

GO Goodwins are only running 88 on 1 evening journey and Sundays
(From Chris Almond D&G)

 

[M60lad]

Interesting situation regarding 88 as at the moment there are no evening or Sunday journeys on 88s, in fact the evening and Sunday journeys on both 88 & 288 that used to interwork with each other with 88 only running Altrincham-Wilmslow didn't really last long due to the fact that they were very rarely used and most journeys only carried up to 3 passengers per trip.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Little Gem is a resurrection of the brand name GM Buses used to use for it's "minibus" type services.

Reminds me of UK North* (possibly about the most disreputable bus company Manchester has ever seen, very much giving typical under-the-railway-bridge minicab companies a run for their money) resurrecting the GM Buses brand. Doesn't exactly exude repute; not something I'd consider doing unless it was with a full Best Impressions job.

Rubbish website and links to a 404 on the TfGM page for timetables - not great!

* Ever been on a bus where the driver was openly smoking cannabis? I have, guess whose bus it was?

 

[Whisky Papa]

Reminds me of UK North* (possibly about the most disreputable bus company Manchester has ever seen, very much giving typical under-the-railway-bridge minicab companies a run for their money) resurrecting the GM Buses brand. Doesn't exactly exude repute; not something I'd consider doing unless it was with a full Best Impressions job.

Rubbish website and links to a 404 on the TfGM page for timetables - not great!

* Ever been on a bus where the driver was openly smoking cannabis? I have, guess whose bus it was?

It definitely wasn't me, Guv - I never even smoke the normal stuff . I should have been sober, too - when I joined I asked for every Thursday off so I could play in the quiz league on Wednesday nights without worrying.

Seriously, I could never understand how the Traffic Commissioner allowed the GM Buses expansion to happen when UK North were so dodgy. I was asked if I wanted to drive on their Little Gem operated 192, but I was quite happy with three round trips on the 42 sandwiched between some morning and afternoon school services. Well, relatively happy.

 

[peters]

Update on D&G website confirms 288 will be run by Little Gem (Go Goodwins) from 11 April as well as this update on the 130:

From 11th April weekday buses will be extended north of Handforth to serve Manchester Airport, Wythenshawe and Wythenshawe Hospital. This is an experimental joint venture between D&G Bus and Cheshire East Council to offer improved links to bus and tram services into Manchester.

There will also be changes to morning Altrincham-Wilmslow-Knutsford 88 bus times , while how many 88 services continue beyond Knutsford and where they continue to, will also change in the afternoon.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Noting what the posting above says about the 130 service, this is very strange. as that service was extended to Wythenshawe Town Centre from Handforth for a short period of time not so very long ago, which was then withdrawn. Tram links were then available in Wythenshawe Town Centre Metrolink stop which immediately abuts the bus station.

Will the service run along Finney Lane in Heald Green, as before?

 

[jfollows]

Will the service run along Finney Lane in Heald Green, as before?

No, A555 according to http://www.dgbus.co.uk/assets/130_2021-04-11.pdf

Route Description:

Macclesfield Bus Station, Mill Street, Park Green, Park Street, Churchill Road, Victoria Road, Macclesfield Hospital grounds, Victoria Road, Fallibroome Road, Chelford Road, Congleton Road (some journeys serve Alderley Park internal roads then return to Congleton Road), London Road, Wilmslow Road, Alderley Road, Green Lane, Church Street, Mill Street, Manchester Road, Dean Row Road, Colshaw Drive, Dean Row Road, Handforth Road, Dean Road, Station Road, Wilmslow Road, A555, Ringway Road West, Outwood Lane, The Station, Chicago Avenue, World Way, Enterprise Way, Bailey Lane, Selstead Road, Portway, Simonsway, Poundswick Lane, Wythenshawe Interchange, Poundswick Lane, Simonsway, Firbank Road, Highdales Road, Hollyhedge Road, Southmoor Road, Wythenshawe Hospital bus terminus. Returns Wythenshawe Hospital bus terminus, Southmoor Road, Hollyhedge Road, Highdales Road, Firbank Road, Simonsway, Poundswick Lane, Wythenshawe Interchange, Poundswick Lane, Simonsway, Portway, Selstead Road, Bailey Lane, Enterprise Way, A555, Outwood Lane, The Station, Malaga Avenue, Terminal Road North, Outwood Lane, Ringway Road West, A555, Wilmslow Road, Station Road, Dean Road, Handforth Road, Dean Row Road, Colshaw Drive, Dean Row Road, Manchester Road, Mill Street, Church Street, Green Lane, Alderley Road, Wilmslow Road, Longton Road, Congleton Road (some journeys serve Alderley Park internal roads then return to Congleton Road), Chelford Road, Fallibroome Road, Victoria Road, Prestbury Road, Chester Road, Chestergate, Churchill Way, Park Street, Sunderland Street, Waters Green, Queen Victoria Street, Macclesfield Bus Station.

 

[gnolife]

Noting what the posting above says about the 130 service, this is very strange. as that service was extended to Wythenshawe Town Centre from Handforth for a short period of time not so very long ago, which was then withdrawn. Tram links were then available in Wythenshawe Town Centre Metrolink stop which immediately abuts the bus station.

Will the service run along Finney Lane in Heald Green, as before?

It will almost certainly run down the A555 to the Airport, then presumably via Bailey Ln, Selstead Rd, Portway and Oatlands Rd to Wythenshawe, from which it has a range of similar length options to Wythenshawe Hospital (I'd suggest Gladeside Rd, Greenwood Rd and Hollyhedge Rd is fastest)

 

[peters]

Noting what the posting above says about the 130 service, this is very strange. as that service was extended to Wythenshawe Town Centre from Handforth for a short period of time not so very long ago, which was then withdrawn.

I think a lot of people in the Wilmslow area are getting fed up with how frequently D&G play around with the routes. One minute there was a Macclesfield to Handforth Dean bus, the next there was a Macclesfield to Manchester Airport via Styal, then Macclesfield to Handforth, then Macclesfield to Wythenshawe via Handforth and then back to Macclesfield to Handforth. Now it's going to be Macclesfield to Wythenshawe via Handforth & Manchester Airport but only a trial basis. There was also a short lived Knutsford to Colshaw Farm service before any of those. You would think they've trialed enough different options so should now be in a position to decide on a long term option without another trial.

If I lived in Macclesfield and applied for a job at Manchester Airport I would not be confident the new 130 service would still be able to get me to that job long term.

 

[jfollows]

I think a lot of people in the Wilmslow area are getting fed up with how frequently D&G play around with the routes.

Yes. And Arriva before D&G.

I didn't live in Wilmslow in 1977, but I was familiar with the E29/E30 Crosville services which I occasionally used home from school for variety from Manchester to Macclesfield, changing there for Bollington.

My parents bought the house I now live in in Wilmslow in about 1982.

I lived in Manchester from 1996 to 2008.

I moved to Wilmslow in 2008, when the 130 service still resembled the E29/E30 services.

I last used the 130 to get to Cheadle in summer 2019. I don't expect I'll ever use the service again.

The Wythenshawe Hospital idea isn't a bad one. However it's still probably a 3 hour round trip from Wilmslow to the hospital for an out-patient appointment, but at least only with 1 bus each way. In 2014 when I had to make the trip it involved bus+train and the connections were not to be relied upon.

 

[markymark2000]

I think a lot of people in the Wilmslow area are getting fed up with how frequently D&G play around with the routes.

D&G are too focused on quick profit or routes get cut. They don't want to build a route, it's a simple as 'it doesn't make money in the first week, let's put in to get it cut'. They also fail to understand the basic principal that regular changes, put off passengers. I know that I certainlty wouldn't be banking on this 130 extension. I'd maybe use it once or twice but as you have said in your post, I wouldn't plan a commute around it. I wouldn't plan a commute around most D&G routes though purely because I know how quickly and frequently they mess with things.

 

[Redmike]

It's also the case that these changes are poorly advertised. I can't imagine many people in Wythenshawe checking the D&G website on a regular basis. Could they put send out some flyers, a decent timetable or even get a social media presence? If people don't know about a service it won't get used.

 

[jfollows]

It's also the case that these changes are poorly advertised. I can't imagine many people in Wythenshawe checking the D&G website on a regular basis. Could they put send out some flyers, a decent timetable or even get a social media presence? If people don't know about a service it won't get used.

To be fair, a couple of years ago when Arriva first gave up on the 130 after having run it for years, D&G did send out flyers including a free ticket offer, but since then the service has been changed five or six times in a short period. As others have said, and I agree with them, the service changing every few months, notwithstanding Covid-19, the acceptance of a subsidy for a Saturday service but then deciding to back out of this, has just resulted in a service which only gets used by people who don't have any choice.

 

[peters]

It's also the case that these changes are poorly advertised. I can't imagine many people in Wythenshawe checking the D&G website on a regular basis. Could they put send out some flyers, a decent timetable or even get a social media presence? If people don't know about a service it won't get used.

The one advantage an operator has in Wythenshawe is a lot of people need to use the bus, so they'll notice 130 Macclesfield appearing on bus stop displays and on the front of buses, while they are waiting for other services. However, neither the destination displays or bus stop displays are going to show a complete list of bus stops.

A lot of people use online journey planners these days, which can mean they find out about a bus that they didn't know existed. However, it can still mean they end up using an alternative method if the bus doesn't run at the times they specify they want to travel. I know someone from Macclesfield who worked in Knutsford and on the day he didn't have his car available he went on the train via Stockport because he didn't know there was a bus.

To be fair, a couple of years ago when Arriva first gave up on the 130 after having run it for years, D&G did send out flyers including a free ticket offer, but since then the service has been changed five or six times in a short period. As others have said, and I agree with them, the service changing every few months, notwithstanding Covid-19, the acceptance of a subsidy for a Saturday service but then deciding to back out of this, has just resulted in a service which only gets used by people who don't have any choice.

If you advertise a new bus service to the airport to the general public, a number of people might think it's great they can use that when they next go to the airport (in a few months time) and not have to arrange a taxi or pay for airport parking. However, if the bus service is cancelled between when they book a flight and the day they travel then it's going to give people who normally drive confidence that they can rely on the bus.

New post
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The above should be:
"However, if the bus service is cancelled between when they book a flight and the day they travel then it's not going to give people who normally drive confidence that they can rely on the bus."
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[markymark2000]

If you advertise a new bus service to the airport to the general public, a number of people might think it's great they can use that when they next go to the airport (in a few months time) and not have to arrange a taxi or pay for airport parking. However, if the bus service is cancelled between when they book a flight and the day they travel then it's going to give people who normally drive confidence that they can rely on the bus.

People don't change their habbits over night do they and I think that is what D&G need to remember. People don't just jump out of bed in the morning, see there is a new bus to Wythenshawe and get on it. People plan their commutes around it.

Purely for example, when the job centres re open for face to face, Wythenshawe will be closer for those in Wilmslow/Handforth than Macclesfield Job Centre. That would be a regular flow of people but it's about holding out long enough for people to know about the change. Then you have people who have hospital appointments, they don't come up often but again, it will be useful when it happens.

For commuters, it takes a lot of advertising to get them out of their car at the best of time and they will make as many excuses as they can to stay in their car. D&Gs 300 changes per year just add another barrier to travel.

 

[peters]

Then you have people who have hospital appointments, they don't come up often but again, it will be useful when it happens.

It was reported to facilitate a COVID ward at Macclesfield maternity services were been suspended with Wythenshawe being one of the alternative options. However, my understanding is in general if you in the East Cheshire NHS trust area, you need to attend one of their clinics and if you are offered an appointment with another NHS trust it's because either they don't have the facility or their facility is oversubscribed. That doesn't mean always attending Macclesfield Hospital though as there can be out patient appointments in Knutsford, Wilmslow or Handforth as well. It might be if you don't want to go to Macc then you need to go to Knutsford on Tuesday morning or it might be you have to go to Handforth on Wednesday afternoon or Wilmslow on Thursday evening.

 

[GusB]

Thread reopened for further discussion