TfW Class 67+Mk4 sets: trip planning/experiences, diagram updates etc

[sd0733]

HD01 now expected out tomorrow. 67016 will be replaced by 67008 which is heading to Canton this afternoon.

67010 also has issues and has been removed from HD02 to go to DB at Crewe ETD for attention

67025 is planned onto HD03, it will then have another of its now regular test runs before finishing at ETD for tyre turning on the rake.

 

[37052 xb mr]

HD01 now expected out tomorrow. 67016 will be replaced by 67008 which is heading to Canton this afternoon.

67010 also has issues and has been removed from HD02 to go to DB at Crewe ETD for attention

67025 is planned onto HD03, it will then have another of its now regular test runs before finishing at ETD for tyre turning on the rake.

Thanks

Set 2 no loco now then ?

Cheers

 

[aar0]

The 225 group have a useful timetable for the services, but is there somewhere that says which trains do which meals?

 

[MP393]

The 225 group have a useful timetable for the services, but is there somewhere that says which trains do which meals?

This is only a guide, open to change and subject to availability of the chefs & hosts but the plan is as follows

Northbound
04:35 ex Cardiff - Buffet No Chef
06:46 ex Cardiff - Breakfast
08:50 ex Cardiff - Breakfast
10:53 ex Cardiff - Main Menu
12:53 ex Cardiff - Main Menu
14:50 ex Cardiff - Main Menu
16:53 ex Cardiff - Light Bites Menu
17:22 ex Cardiff - Main Menu
18:53 ex Cardiff - Buffet no Chef

Southbound
05:13 ex Crewe - No Buffet or Chef
05:30 ex Holyhead - Breakfast
06:27 ex Manchester - Buffet only to Shrewsbury, then breakfast
08:30 ex Manchester - Breakfast
10:30 ex Manchester - Breakfast
12:30 ex Manchester - Main Menu
14:30 ex Manchester- Main Menu
16:30 ex Manchester- Main Menu
18:30 ex Manchester- Buffet only, no chef.

 

[Topological]

Although as I discovered 1W13 does not have very much between Swansea and Cardiff. I had picked up a very discounted advance for Port Talbot to Cardiff, but there was no refreshments.

Where a train is listed as buffet but no chef, is there still at seat service for coffee/snacks?

 

[MP393]

Where a train is listed as buffet but no chef, is there still at seat service for coffee/snacks?

Yes that’s right there is. I should also point out for clarity that despite me putting “ex Cardiff” on all on my list, the catering staff & stock board at Newport, hence nothing for W13 from Swansea unfortunately, the other “gap” being the Crewe starter.

Sundays however the 09:30 ex Manchester has the buffet right through to Swansea and back

 

[Jez]

Although as I discovered 1W13 does not have very much between Swansea and Cardiff. I had picked up a very discounted advance for Port Talbot to Cardiff, but there was no refreshments.

I think that's poor! I can understand them not having the full catering and restaurant service but no tea and coffee..... to me the catering staff not being there is no excuse. They should ensure there are catering staff to go over to Swansea ready for the start of the service. It would be a hassle with them being based in Newport I agree but if TFW truly want to provide a proper service to its first class customers then that is what should happen.

 

[aar0]

This is only a guide, open to change and subject to availability of the chefs & hosts but the plan is as follows

Northbound
04:35 ex Cardiff - Buffet No Chef
06:46 ex Cardiff - Breakfast
08:50 ex Cardiff - Breakfast
10:53 ex Cardiff - Main Menu
12:53 ex Cardiff - Main Menu
14:50 ex Cardiff - Main Menu
16:53 ex Cardiff - Light Bites Menu
17:22 ex Cardiff - Main Menu
18:53 ex Cardiff - Buffet no Chef

Southbound
05:13 ex Crewe - No Buffet or Chef
05:30 ex Holyhead - Breakfast
06:27 ex Manchester - Buffet only to Shrewsbury, then breakfast
08:30 ex Manchester - Breakfast
10:30 ex Manchester - Breakfast
12:30 ex Manchester - Main Menu
14:30 ex Manchester- Main Menu
16:30 ex Manchester- Main Menu
18:30 ex Manchester- Buffet only, no chef.

Amazing, thank you! I’d been planning on the 1653 from Cardiff to connect to Sheffield and have dinner on board - will have to go either one before or one after.

 

[Topological]

I think that's poor! I can understand them not having the full catering and restaurant service but no tea and coffee..... to me the catering staff not being there is no excuse. They should ensure there are catering staff to go over to Swansea ready for the start of the service. It would be a hassle with them being based in Newport I agree but if TFW truly want to provide a proper service to its first class customers then that is what should happen.

I may be old-fashioned, but I see the morning trains as the "business" trains and, therefore, much more of a priority for refreshments. At the end of the day, it is fair enough that the service winds down.

I do appreciate the logistics of the catering base being in Newport, but it should not be impossible to have one member of catering staff from Swansea.

It probably does not help that 1W13 can be cut back to Cardiff in weeks where the ECS has to divert via the Vale of Glamorgan.

 

[D6130]

Amazing, thank you! I’d been planning on the 1653 from Cardiff to connect to Sheffield and have dinner on board - will have to go either one before or one after.

You could take 1W96, 17 22 Cardiff-Holyhead, as far as Shrewsbury and then change there and at Manchester for Sheffield. In my experience, dinner service usually starts about Abergavenny.....so you should have time to eat before your first change

 

[Harpo]

You could take 1W96, 17 22 Cardiff-Holyhead, as far as Shrewsbury and then change there and at Manchester for Sheffield. In my experience, dinner service usually starts about Abergavenny.....so you should have time to eat before your first change

Or Chester for Manchester??

 

[Anonymous10]

Or Chester for Manchester??

Would want the 2056 ex Chester (northern) to Stockport arriving at 22:14 then taking the 22:23

 

[Jez]

I may be old-fashioned, but I see the morning trains as the "business" trains and, therefore, much more of a priority for refreshments. At the end of the day, it is fair enough that the service winds down.

I do appreciate the logistics of the catering base being in Newport, but it should not be impossible to have one member of catering staff from Swansea.

It probably does not help that 1W13 can be cut back to Cardiff in weeks where the ECS has to divert via the Vale of Glamorgan.

Especially as there are catering staff based in Carmarthen. Okay I appreciate they dont work MK4's at Carmarthen Depot but surely someone could just serve tea/coffee and snacks that didnt involve a Chef just for passengers between Swansea-Cardiff. To me it seems poor to have first class with no refreshments, thats the main perk of going in first class. At that time in the morning the train would be so quiet they might as well declassify First Class until Cardiff if no extra benefits other than a better seat.

To me Swansea just seems to be the poor relation in terms of the MK4's (apart from weekends) No evening service on weekdays. They might just as well not bother and just have a 197 covering the Swansea-Cardiff bit!

 

[Topological]

Especially as there are catering staff based in Carmarthen. Okay I appreciate they dont work MK4's at Carmarthen Depot but surely someone could just serve tea/coffee and snacks that didnt involve a Chef just for passengers between Swansea-Cardiff. To me it seems poor to have first class with no refreshments, thats the main perk of going in first class. At that time in the morning the train would be so quiet they might as well declassify First Class until Cardiff if no extra benefits other than a better seat.

To me Swansea just seems to be the poor relation in terms of the MK4's (apart from weekends) No evening service on weekdays. They might just as well not bother and just have a 197 covering the Swansea-Cardiff bit!

To be honest, apart from Pyle, and the fact that you can get through advances for a better price than if it were TfW+GWR, you might as well just have the GWR Paddington train for the passenger numbers at that time in the morning. The GWR gives connections into 1W13 at Cardiff.

When you think of the hassle of getting the empty stock to Swansea, and the challenges of weeks when the direct Cardiff to Bridgend line is unavailable, it is a lot of work just to serve Pyle.

I assume that there is no way for GWR to serve Pyle.

 

[Rhydgaled]

When you think of the hassle of getting the empty stock to Swansea, and the challenges of weeks when the direct Cardiff to Bridgend line is unavailable, it is a lot of work just to serve Pyle.

I assume that there is no way for GWR to serve Pyle.

Isn't Pyle normally served by the Swanline stoppers worked by 197s? Apart from there still being some 2 hour gaps in what should be an hourly service, I can't see why either GWR or the mark 4 workings would need to call there.

 

[Topological]

Isn't Pyle normally served by the Swanline stoppers worked by 197s? Apart from there still being some 2 hour gaps in what should be an hourly service, I can't see why either GWR or the mark 4 workings would need to call there.

The problem is that 1W13 is the first train of the day to call at Pyle. 1W13 is also the first TfW from Swansea to Cardiff. Dropping 1W13 leaves a gap until 07:02 (1W13 is currently 06:10)

There are usually a couple of people who use 1W13 at Pyle.

Stopping the GWR (1L04) at Pyle at 05:50 would plug the gap left by 1W13.

Relating back to the start of all this. IF GWR stopped then passengers with first class tickets boarding at Pyle would get coffee.

 

[Jez]

To be honest, apart from Pyle, and the fact that you can get through advances for a better price than if it were TfW+GWR, you might as well just have the GWR Paddington train for the passenger numbers at that time in the morning. The GWR gives connections into 1W13 at Cardiff.

When you think of the hassle of getting the empty stock to Swansea, and the challenges of weeks when the direct Cardiff to Bridgend line is unavailable, it is a lot of work just to serve Pyle.

I assume that there is no way for GWR to serve Pyle.

No GWR service Pyle at all. So I doubt it would be that easy to get GWR to call at Pyle just once. Revenue for Pyle to Cardiff etc tickets GWR would need to get a share of as well.

A simple solution could be to run the 0853 Cardiff from Swansea instead. This was always a very busy service when it ran direct to Manchester before they started the split services every 2 hours. Wouldnt have to worry about getting catering staff or if the main line was closed fo the ECS movement as the line would generally be open in time for any overnight works. It could even run in passenger service from CDF to SWA. Of course that would mean some juggling of the sets as I believe the 0863 comes down from Crewe. ONe of the early Cardiff services would need to revert to being a 197 as otherwise you would need 3 of them at Canton overnight which wouldnt work.

 

[Topological]

No GWR service Pyle at all. So I doubt it would be that easy to get GWR to call at Pyle just once. Revenue for Pyle to Cardiff etc tickets GWR would need to get a share of as well.

A simple solution could be to run the 0853 Cardiff from Swansea instead. This was always a very busy service when it ran direct to Manchester before they started the split services every 2 hours. Wouldnt have to worry about getting catering staff or if the main line was closed fo the ECS movement as the line would generally be open in time for any overnight works. It could even run in passenger service from CDF to SWA. Of course that would mean some juggling of the sets as I believe the 0863 comes down from Crewe. ONe of the early Cardiff services would need to revert to being a 197 as otherwise you would need 3 of them at Canton overnight which wouldnt work.

IF 1W11 is really needed ,then that could be a 197 to Shrewsbury and then start the Mk4 set at Shrewsbury using the current Crewe starter. Again IF an early train from Crewe is justified it can run as a 197, or alternatively start further south. Although that takes the 197s out of balance a little, Crewe diagrams are also used for balancing on and off Chester so it could work.

That way the Cardiff starts are the 1W13 and the 08:53

There is no Mk4 arriving from Crewe so that works.

The 08:30 from Manchester forms from the shortened 1W11 Mk4 that now begins its journey in Shrewsbury.

 

[Welshguy1048]

Evening

What is on 1W96 tonight please?

Thank you

Dave

 

[BillStampy]

Evening

What is on 1W96 tonight please?

Thank you

Dave

67017 set 6.

 

[Welshguy1048]

67017 set 6.

@BillStampy

Thank you

Dave

 

[Jez]

IF 1W11 is really needed ,then that could be a 197 to Shrewsbury and then start the Mk4 set at Shrewsbury using the current Crewe starter. Again IF an early train from Crewe is justified it can run as a 197, or alternatively start further south. Although that takes the 197s out of balance a little, Crewe diagrams are also used for balancing on and off Chester so it could work.

That way the Cardiff starts are the 1W13 and the 08:53

There is no Mk4 arriving from Crewe so that works.

The 08:30 from Manchester forms from the shortened 1W11 Mk4 that now begins its journey in Shrewsbury.

Sounds like a plan. I really think the MK4 leaving Swansea around 0745 would work out far better. The 05xx is far too early for most people.

 

[37052 xb mr]

1V91 - 67017 set 6
1V31 - 67010 set 2
1V33 - 67022 set 4
1W11 - 67020 set 7
1W13 - 67008 set 1

Crewe
67025 Set 3 - Tyre Turning
67029 Set 5

 

[Rhydgaled]

The problem is that 1W13 is the first train of the day to call at Pyle. 1W13 is also the first TfW from Swansea to Cardiff. Dropping 1W13 leaves a gap until 07:02 (1W13 is currently 06:10)

There are usually a couple of people who use 1W13 at Pyle.

Stopping the GWR (1L04) at Pyle at 05:50 would plug the gap left by 1W13.

Ah, I think I understand the problem now.

GWR typically runs an hourly service from Swansea to Paddington, departing roughly xx:22 from 08:21 to 20:23, while the TfW workings to Manchester are roughly xx:53 from 08:52 to 16:52. Thus, there is a fast service between Swansea and Cardiff roughly every 30 minutes through most of the day. However, before 8am the pattern is disrupted, with GWR running both fast trains in some hours. If that is to continue, I would suggest that TfW should run an earlier first Swanline service, leaving Swansea as soon as possible after GWR's 1L04 has departed, and have the mark 4 on 1W13 start at Cardiff timed to connect out of one of the GWR workings from Swansea. It's a shame there is a Pyle stop in TfW's 07:52 from Swansea; otherwise, it would make sense to have the mark 4 set on that one. Since it runs an hour before the first through 197-operated Swansea to Manchester, that should fit very nicely into the pattern of a mark 4 set every two hours between Cardiff and Manchester.

 

[sd0733]

67025 looks to have passed its tests at long last and is returning to ATC with HD03.
Tomorrow has 5 sets in service and not 1 but 2 spare rakes (HD03 and HD05), first time all 7 are fully available.

A swap is planned later on with HD02 swapping onto the 17:14 Holyhead and HD04 onto the 16:53 Manchester to get 67022 to Crewe.

67007 should be heading back to Crewe ETD tomorrow with its place as the recovery loco filled by now repaired 67016.

 

[aar0]

You could take 1W96, 17 22 Cardiff-Holyhead, as far as Shrewsbury and then change there and at Manchester for Sheffield. In my experience, dinner service usually starts about Abergavenny.....so you should have time to eat before your first change

I’m trying to make a journey planner give me this option with little luck (coming from Swansea), in fact the only Mk4 offered is the 1653 (which journey planners have down as having a dining car, annoyingly). Not hugely on topic, but any suggestions?

 

[Jacob Porrett]

67025 looks to have passed its tests at long last and is returning to ATC with HD03.
Tomorrow has 5 sets in service and not 1 but 2 spare rakes (HD03 and HD05), first time all 7 are fully available.

A swap is planned later on with HD02 swapping onto the 17:14 Holyhead and HD04 onto the 16:53 Manchester to get 67022 to Crewe.

67007 should be heading back to Crewe ETD tomorrow with its place as the recovery loco filled by now repaired 67016.

Fantastic news.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Today at Crewe depot (9/4/25):

67025 connected to HD03

67029 connected to HD05

67013

 

[37052 xb mr]

67025 looks to have passed its tests at long last and is returning to ATC with HD03.
Tomorrow has 5 sets in service and not 1 but 2 spare rakes (HD03 and HD05), first time all 7 are fully available.

A swap is planned later on with HD02 swapping onto the 17:14 Holyhead and HD04 onto the 16:53 Manchester to get 67022 to Crewe.

67007 should be heading back to Crewe ETD tomorrow with its place as the recovery loco filled by now repaired 67016.

67029 set 5 are working 1V33

 

[37052 xb mr]

67010 Set 2
Replaced by 197029 at Crewe on
1V42 Manchester - Cardiff