Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[387star]

No tables on bays

 

[387star]

125 first treated

Edit Appears some tl logos placed much further down on at least one 700 might be imagining it !

 

[Domh245]

I'm intrigued by a couple of things on these.

1) 1st class section - why does it sound like there was a strong wind blowing through ajar window when the thing gets moving, as if the anti wheel slip mechanism was using air or something.

2) from the outside, when the doors close and driver releases the brakes it makes a series of quick pah pah pah pah pah's (I know it reads silly but that's how it sounds). Why does it do that rather than a single long pssssssssh? A fault perhaps?

That's the latest equipment from Knorr Bremse (who do the brakes) and is also found on LU S Stocks and a few other modern stocks. Not sure why it does it that way, but definitely not a fault.

 

[EMD]

That's the latest equipment from Knorr Bremse (who do the brakes) and is also found on LU S Stocks and a few other modern stocks. Not sure why it does it that way, but definitely not a fault.

Brakes made by Knorr? Bloody bean counters hahaha

 

[samuelmorris]

After terminating a train at Elephant & Castle at 7pm today due to a fault, the diagram was cancelled for the rest of the day and not only that, the other late night Sutton service was also cancelled. Any ideas what happened to cause this?
Friends of mine are potentially moving to Sutton soon and the last train home being 10:40 is pretty poor...

 

[physics34]

No tables on bays

Typical. Couldve installed a small table

 

[Spartacus]

After terminating a train at Elephant & Castle at 7pm today due to a fault, the diagram was cancelled for the rest of the day and not only that, the other late night Sutton service was also cancelled. Any ideas what happened to cause this?
Friends of mine are potentially moving to Sutton soon and the last train home being 10:40 is pretty poor...

Pantograph combined with the usual 700 computer says no (700005)

The last Luton - Sutton was cancelled due to a defective pass-com on 700022

 

[ComUtoR]

Pantograph combined with the usual 700 computer says no (700005)

Pantograph problem at Elephant ? That would be highly unusual to say the least.

 

[MisterT]

That's the latest equipment from Knorr Bremse (who do the brakes) and is also found on LU S Stocks and a few other modern stocks. Not sure why it does it that way, but definitely not a fault.

I have no experience with the 700, but we have a few units and locomotives in the Netherlands do the same thing (yes, we also use Knorr Bremse).
The units/locomotives have what we call in Dutch a 'halterem' or literally translated a 'station brake' (I have no idea what it is called in the UK), which is automatically applied when the speed drops below 2 km/h.
I don't have a better picture available at the moment on my phone, so it's the whole cab instead of the gauges, but you'll get the point, I hope.
For example in our Bombardier Traxx MS2e locomotives (click for the large original size):

At the right, next to the display on the right, you see two gauges. The upper gauge is the brake cylinder pressure gauge, which is currently at 4.5 bar, which means that the locomotive brakes are fully applied.
Below is the brake pipe gauge, at the moment at 5 bar, which means that the brakes on the coaches behind the loco are completely released. This way, only the loco brakes are applied.
As soon as I apply power, the loco brakes will release automatically. To avoid the train rolling backwards on uphill stations, the brakes are not released at once, but in a few steps. This way, I can built up the traction power before the brakes are released, to avoid rolling backwards.
You can hear it in a cab ride I recorded some time ago: https://youtube.com/watch?t=0m47s&v=vxKR5eHGELA from 0:49.

 

[Spartacus]

Pantograph problem at Elephant ? That would be highly unusual to say the least.

Faulted at Kentish town where the computer issues first manifested themselves, leading to eventual cancellation at E&C. Experience shows there's little point in keeping it in service when the AI goes US.

 

[387star]

132 has new logos much further down bodyside possibly an error or a new styling !

 

[urpert]

I have no experience with the 700, but we have a few units and locomotives in the Netherlands who do the same thing (yes, we also use Knorr Bremse).

Fascinating explanation, thanks.

 

[spark001uk]

Can't remember who it was said the 240v sockets can't be tripped, but I'm currently on 700039 (2V60) and they're all dead!

 

[physics34]

132 has new logos much further down bodyside possibly an error or a new styling !

doesnt seem to be THAT much further down. Gotta be just an error.

 

[bengley]

Typical. Couldve installed a small table

If it were my choice there would be no bays at all. Bays of seats are seriously abused by people who like putting their feet on the seats. I walked through a train one day not too long ago have had to ask twenty-four people to take their feet down.

It's disgusting and something needs to be done about it.

 

[asylumxl]

If it were my choice there would be no bays at all. Bays of seats are seriously abused by people who like putting their feet on the seats. I walked through a train one day not too long ago have had to ask twenty-four people to take their feet down.

It's disgusting and something needs to be done about it.

To be honest, I find bays annoying for a different reason. You'll often find a 2 people sitting in them and very rarely will they move for a group of 3-4 people to sit together. If there's very few seats I can understand, but off-peak when it's more lightly loaded, not so much.

 

[Domh245]

I have no experience with the 700, but we have a few units and locomotives in the Netherlands who do the same thing (yes, we also use Knorr Bremse).
The units/locomotives have what we call in Dutch a 'halterem' or literally translated a 'station brake' (I have no idea what it is called in the UK), which is automatically applied when the speed drops below 2 km/h.
I don't have a better picture available at the moment on my phone, so it's the whole cab instead of the gauges, but you'll get the point, I hope.
For example in our Bombardier Traxx MS2e locomotives (click for the large original size):

At the right, next to the display on the right, you see two gauges. The upper gauge is the brake cylinder pressure gauge, which is currently at 4.5 bar, which means that the locomotive brakes are fully applied.
Below is the brake pipe gauge, at the moment at 5 bar, which means that the brakes on the coaches behind the loco are completely released. This way, only the loco brakes are applied.
As soon as I try to drive away, the loco brakes will release automatically. To avoid the train rolling backwards on uphill stations, the brakes are not released at once, but in a few steps. This way, I can built up the traction before the brakes are released, to avoid rolling backwards.
You can hear it in a cab ride I recorded some time ago: https://youtube.com/watch?t=0m47s&v=vxKR5eHGELA from 0:49.

Your halterem sounds a bit like a spring applied parking brake. I don't think any UK mainline stock are fitted with these, but most trams are. I assume that it is air-operated, in which case a number of our trains do something similar in that the brakes only come in at a low speed, having slowed down from the higher speed using the motors to slow down.

Your explanation for the staged brake release certainly makes sense. Having done a bit more research (googling images of a class 700 cab!) I note that there isn't a hill start button (or one that is immediately obvious). In previous trains with only a single power/brake controller, there has been a button on the desk or on the power handle which allowed the brakes to stay on to allow the power to build up before then releasing past a certain speed/power notch.

 

[Class2ldn]

They have a holding brake instead so you can't roll back (in theory)

 

[westcoaster]

700 have a holding brake that auto applies as soon as it stops. It releases as soon as the train detects a positive power/movement. Holding Brake is 40%.

 

[MisterT]

Holding brake sounds exactly like it, thanks

It is, by the way, definitely not a spring applied parking brake: the units and the locomotives have those things too as a true parking brake. The holding brake is air operated, which is why you can hear the sound of the brakes releasing. The spring operated parking brakes are a lot less noticeable.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

700 134 is reportedly the next delivery on the way to us.

 

[EMD]

Right so we know the source of the pah pah pah pah pah's. It can be heard here for example.
https://youtu.be/idR4dRWI8dw?t=15s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD6aX1wC9ZM

Now what's up with that hurricane like noise inside the first class compartment. Sounds as if the train was being suctioned onto the tracks when it sets off. I'm quite curious about this one.

 

[Bishopstone]

Now what's up with that hurricane like noise inside the first class compartment. Sounds as if the train was being suctioned onto the tracks when it sets off. I'm quite curious about this one.

Is it the St Albans mob descending en masse upon declassified first in the rear coach?

 

[jon0844]

Had a 12 car 700 stop at Knebworth today, clearly testing SDO as the rear four doors didn't release. Stayed 10-20 seconds and off again.

(image of train on platform 4)

 

[spark001uk]

I was on 112 yesterday, and under the DMCO at one end there was a fan going full chat permanently, could even be heard in the coach above it whilst travelling. I got off at ECR and as it departed it sounded like the Marston on an HST.!

 

[samuelmorris]

First time I think I've been caught out by a failed unit, waiting outside CTK whilst a power fault is diagnosed. Was bound to happen eventually!

 

[westcoaster]

700123 and 120? 12 cars now reported in service.

 

[JaJaWa]

132 has new logos much further down bodyside possibly an error or a new styling !

Wonder if they'll redo all the others again?

 

[Bald Rick]

700123 and 120? 12 cars now reported in service.

Noticed that yesterday, when I got on one with a distinctly boxfresh smell, checked and it was 123. Then 120 popped up today.

 

[westcoaster]

No 700's into London Victoria tomorrow. GTR having to hire 465/466 from south eastern instead.