The annual "Boxing Day Trains" row.

[Z12XE]

So a single day of the year was "marred" because you disapprove of other people buying stuff?

Utter nonsense.

That's no worse than people suggesting that their Christmas has been ruined by no service today or engineering works over the Christmas.

There's also a suggestion on the GA twitter that a football match was today ruined by the lack of train service.

I think people need to get a grip and accept that when it comes down to it their lives aren't being ruined by shops or lack of trains today and just try again tomorrow

 

[Sunset route]

How would you make the services advanced ticket only? You can't stop people with walk up tickets using them, that's kind of the point of walk up tickets. Add in the usual inability of some of the general public to understand the terms and conditions of advance tickets and you've got a right barrel of laughs going on.

I'd have no problem with my colleagues choosing to work for whatever level of pay entices them but it would inevitably lead to compulsory working for the rest of us after a few years. And once it's compulsory why would they pay any more?

After 18 weeks of increasing bitter strikes and on our unions instances, we reluctantly agreed to the signalmans restructuring agreement and kissed goodbye to our Christmas's as they became just another bank holiday and all rostered turns even on bank holidays have to be honoured.

At the moment it's covered by volunteers (well over subscribed this year) as the company doesn't want to pay Christmas rate of pay for a full shift for a very limit service.

 

[HLE]

I don't agree with the commercialisation of Christmas, it is a Christian festival after all. It's easy to forget what we are celebrating and why we are celebrating, I certainly don't agree with shops opening at all, therefore I definitely don't think the railways, buses etc should be operating.

Only the emergency services and those on call (utilities etc) and those in a similar line of work should be expected to be in.

Only my opinion of course, no more or less valid than the next.

 

[jon0844]

As I say every year this discussion comes up, let people decide if they wish to work. While it's a bit odd to have normal Sunday's rely on volunteers, I can't see a problem on Christmas Day or Boxing Day (engineering work aside).

Want to spend time with family? Do so. Your circumstances mean you'd happily work (perhaps to have other days off)? Do so.

If there are people queuing up to volunteer, then I don't see a problem.

I'm not bothered about shopping 5 minutes after Christmas, but there are clearly people who want to travel to/from family. I was at my parents, and we drove, and from the state of the roads (cars parked on green areas, verges, pavements and junctions) it's clear a lot of other people drove too.

Public transport wasn't an option unless we stayed another day (we arrived Christmas Eve) and I am always quite concerned about the number of people who are driving while still over the limit. We went for walks yesterday and today and I didn't even feel 100% safe on the pavement seeing how some people were driving.

Meanwhile, I get home tonight to hear about a car that crashed just up the road and the occupants doing a runner.

But, I accept that nobody seems to want to change things. Yet, there are going to be a lot of workers (many low paid) who had to get to work today and goodness knows how they did so.

 

[Caertroia]

The BBC have been running an awful anti rail campaign this Christmas.

The BBC reports the facts. If the facts are uncomfortable, do something to address those facts rather than attack the messenger.

If the BBC has missed some facts, such as the information that some trains were running on Boxing Day, then it was the responsibility of those TOCs with services to alert the BBC and other media in plenty of time, not wait until Boxing Day is almost over and then grumble.

 

[6Gman]

I was in the train planning office at Crewe when we ran Boxing Day trains in the late 70s (1978?).

It was very basic: Euston - Coventry - Brum - Crewe hourly then alternately Liverpool/Manchester.

It was very busy!

 

[jon0844]

The BBC reports the facts. If the facts are uncomfortable, do something to address those facts rather than attack the messenger.

If the BBC has missed some facts, such as the information that some trains were running on Boxing Day, then it was the responsibility of those TOCs with services to alert the BBC and other media in plenty of time, not wait until Boxing Day is almost over and then grumble.

The BBC did say what companies weren't running trains, and I have to say that I was most surprised to hear a train on the WAML today.

Only the day before, we walked from Cheshunt/Turnford to Wormley along an eerily silent railway line and I assumed Boxing Day was going to be a total shut down too.

Personally, trains should either run or not run. It seems silly to be based on what a TOC wants to do. Rather like a post code lottery for people.

 

[al78]

The BBC reports the facts. If the facts are uncomfortable, do something to address those facts rather than attack the messenger.

Attacking, or bullying the messenger is a way to try and intimidate or embarrass them into silence, so the perpetrators can carry on with business as usual, pretend that there is no problem or that someone else is to blame (the victims ideally), and remain disconnected from any consequences, so they can convince themselves they are doing a brilliant job.

 

[Envy123]

So it is possible to get a taxi or drive then?

In a perfect world without traffic or the need for sleep, yes.

 

[EM2]

The BBC reports the facts.

Why does the BBC need to report it at all? Trains not running over Christmas is not new (or news).

 

[ivanhoe]

The BBC reports the facts. If the facts are uncomfortable, do something to address those facts rather than attack the messenger.

If the BBC has missed some facts, such as the information that some trains were running on Boxing Day, then it was the responsibility of those TOCs with services to alert the BBC and other media in plenty of time, not wait until Boxing Day is almost over and then grumble.

Nice cut of my post to make your forthright comment. I suspect that's what a modern journalist does nowadays. I can't believe you've just posted that comment without being under the influence of a couple glasses of Rioja.

 

[Dave1987]

Every year without fail this topic comes up, just like the news "stories" of chaos on the railways for the traveling public caused by engineering works. With electrification in utter tatters and the Rail minister repeatedly avoiding questions on when "deferred" sections would be completed you would have thought that Labour would be in full attack mode on that. TOCs can try and get rail staff to run a service on Boxing Day but it will cost them, and with all the major engineering work that is always planned it's not really worth even trying.

 

[Bellbell]

As I say every year this discussion comes up, let people decide if they wish to work. While it's a bit odd to have normal Sunday's rely on volunteers, I can't see a problem on Christmas Day or Boxing Day (engineering work aside).

Want to spend time with family? Do so. Your circumstances mean you'd happily work (perhaps to have other days off)? Do so.

If there are people queuing up to volunteer, then I don't see a problem.

I'm not bothered about shopping 5 minutes after Christmas, but there are clearly people who want to travel to/from family. I was at my parents, and we drove, and from the state of the roads (cars parked on green areas, verges, pavements and junctions) it's clear a lot of other people drove too.

Public transport wasn't an option unless we stayed another day (we arrived Christmas Eve) and I am always quite concerned about the number of people who are driving while still over the limit. We went for walks yesterday and today and I didn't even feel 100% safe on the pavement seeing how some people were driving.

Meanwhile, I get home tonight to hear about a car that crashed just up the road and the occupants doing a runner.

But, I accept that nobody seems to want to change things. Yet, there are going to be a lot of workers (many low paid) who had to get to work today and goodness knows how they did so.

Do you think it would always remain voluntary? Honestly? I'm intrigued. Sundays are compulsory overtime, which I believe no one, in my TOC at least, has yet challenged. I think Christmas working would go the same way but I can see that being challenged a lot more rapidly.

I don't understand the relevance of your comment about the car crash but I hope no one was injured.

This question is to all who support Christmas or Boxing Day working, and I don't expect answers, but in your heart of hearts, would you want to work those days?

 

[Darandio]

Why does the BBC need to report it at all? Trains not running over Christmas is not new (or news).

Presumably because Labour are making a song and dance about it?

 

[radamfi]

As usual, people start talking about retail as the main reason why trains should run on Boxing Day. Shopping is only one of many reasons why people travel. I have just spent 25/26 Dec travelling around Belgium and the Netherlands. I often go to the Netherlands this time of year. Shops weren't open yesterday yet there were a lot of people travelling around. They must have had other reasons to travel.

 

[EM2]

Presumably because Labour are making a song and dance about it?

They've been reporting on it since Thursday. Labour only piped up today.

 

[LAX54]

Habits and patterns have changed since Boxing Day services were withdrawn across the board. The structure of the industry makes it difficult to adapt to changes, i.e. shopping habits and to meet the demands of growing number of passengers. Once something is withdrawn, it is usually more difficult to re-instate. If services had never been withdrawn, rail staff would have just gone along with it but now, re-instatement would have to be run by the unions and franchise contracts examined before any agreement could be reached and which wouldn't be a very smooth ride now. By the way, sporting fixtures have continued right through this period, so this habit hasn't changed.

I remember when it was withdrawn, as we always worked on 26th, there was a big hue and cry from Staff and Unions, but it was carried out anyway, and as you say, once they say 'we don't want you' then it is very hard to get it back to a working day, mind you 60% of signalboxes are open I would have thought anyway !

We dont need shops open on the 26th, its only the people who run the stores that demand staff come to work, shops could easily stay closed 25th and 26th, is this Country so sad that we have to go 'shopping' the day after Christmas ? If all these people want to go out, and want trains, then they can also all go back to work !

 

[neilb62]

That's OK , The answer is just to get on and recruit other staff twho will.

Good luck with re-writing any company's terms and conditions of service with that one mine (VT) take the two days out of our holiday allowance booking everyone off that day. Public Transport never has and never will be a 24/7 given, use it when it's there and make other arrangements when it isn't. I see no difference to people having to work on Sundays when there is no public transport in the area and they manage.... Oh and can we have the shops open on Easter Sunday so they have to work when we are driving trains then?

 

[Robertj21a]

This question is to all who support Christmas or Boxing Day working, and I don't expect answers, but in your heart of hearts, would you want to work those days?

I think you're overstating the issues, there's plenty of people who have to work over the Xmas period. Boxing Day has often been devoted to sports, so I can't see why shopping is that very different. For many people who are single/have no family/are not Christians it can be rather pleasant to be able to get out and about, whether for work or leisure. There's a good many of the same categories ready to volunteer to work if others want to be with their families.

 

[radamfi]

It is nothing to do with shopping! Why run trains late at night when shops are all closed?

 

[bramling]

I think you're overstating the issues, there's plenty of people who have to work over the Xmas period. Boxing Day has often been devoted to sports, so I can't see why shopping is that very different. For many people who are single/have no family/are not Christians it can be rather pleasant to be able to get out and about, whether for work or leisure. There's a good many of the same categories ready to volunteer to work if others want to be with their families.

To be honest, the bulk of passengers on LU today seem to be semi-vagrant drunk types. Apart from that a lot of the trains are running round very empty indeed.

 

[GB]

I look forward to tomorrow where Christmas is over and this topic can be put to rest for another year.

Same old arguments for and against. No amount of opinions on here will make any kind of difference.

 

[LAX54]

I look forward to tomorrow where Christmas is over and this topic can be put to rest for another year.

Same old arguments for and against. No amount of opinions on here will make any kind of difference.

It can be 'mothballed' for 364 days, then can be re-opened

 

[Bellbell]

I think you're overstating the issues, there's plenty of people who have to work over the Xmas period. Boxing Day has often been devoted to sports, so I can't see why shopping is that very different. For many people who are single/have no family/are not Christians it can be rather pleasant to be able to get out and about, whether for work or leisure. There's a good many of the same categories ready to volunteer to work if others want to be with their families.

Is that a yes or a no then?

I don't really see how I'm overstating the issue. I don't want to work Christmas Day or Boxing Day and currently I don't have to. It doesn't matter why I don't want to work them, I just don't. I'm asking the people who want me to work, whether they themselves want to work. It doesn't matter to me whether you want to travel by train on either of those days to watch paint dry, I don't want to be there to facilitate shopping, sports or paint.

I don't really understand your argument; because sports fixtures often take place shopping should too so we should run trains? Is that it?

I've already said that I don't care whether people want to work, I care that it remains entirely voluntary, which I cannot see happening and therefore for me, I don't want it introduced at all (my TOC shuts down for both days).

 

[LAX54]

It is nothing to do with shopping! Why run trains late at night when shops are all closed?

Services were withdrawn in the end, as there was no one, or not many travelling, it was not worth BR paying all the staff to come in getting a nice rop and little income from passengers, No one worred there were no trains for many years, but since it has become a big shopping day, or so the TV news would have us believe, there has been a call for trains to run

Engineering can be done at another time, a far better time would be when the kids are on holiday, and the weather is a lot better, so less risk of bad weather delaying things, so maybe sometime in July or August maybe ?

 

[Dave1987]

Can we not just copy and paste all the arguments from last years thread and then just lock it. Anyone who works on Christmas Day or Boxing Day deserves to be paid triple pay BY LAW. Police, Doctors, Nurses, Firemen/women, NR staff, anyone else who has to work Boxing Day or Christmas Day, I salute you! Hopefully for the rest these days can be preserved for families, although I doubt it sadly.

 

[neilb62]

Services were withdrawn in the end, as there was no one, or not many travelling, it was not worth BR paying all the staff to come in getting a nice rop and little income from passengers, No one worred there were no trains for many years, but since it has become a big shopping day, or so the TV news would have us believe, there has been a call for trains to run

Engineering can be done at another time, a far better time would be when the kids are on holiday, and the weather is a lot better, so less risk of bad weather delaying things, so maybe sometime in July or August maybe ?

When the kids are on holiday freight still runs, and thats the deal breaker....

 

[Robertj21a]

Is that a yes or a no then?

I don't really see how I'm overstating the issue. I don't want to work Christmas Day or Boxing Day and currently I don't have to. It doesn't matter why I don't want to work them, I just don't. I'm asking the people who want me to work, whether they themselves want to work. It doesn't matter to me whether you want to travel by train on either of those days to watch paint dry, I don't want to be there to facilitate shopping, sports or paint.

I don't really understand your argument; because sports fixtures often take place shopping should too so we should run trains? Is that it?

I've already said that I don't care whether people want to work, I care that it remains entirely voluntary, which I cannot see happening and therefore for me, I don't want it introduced at all (my TOC shuts down for both days).

Working on Boxing Day wouldn't bother me in the least. Done it before, happy to do it again, Not really sure why some people think it's so important. If you're not Christian then you're probably not bothered anyway, if you live on your own (or your partner is working) you may be happy to work and have time off later. Not sure why you keep mentioning shopping.

 

[Robertj21a]

Can we not just copy and paste all the arguments from last years thread and then just lock it. Anyone who works on Christmas Day or Boxing Day deserves to be paid triple pay BY LAW. Police, Doctors, Nurses, Firemen/women, NR staff, anyone else who has to work Boxing Day or Christmas Day, I salute you! Hopefully for the rest these days can be preserved for families, although I doubt it sadly.

Utter rubbish, some people are actually very happy to get away from their families at these times !
Also, you assume that everyone follows a Christian calendar (hint.......they don't !).

 

[HowardGWR]

Engineering can be done at another time, a far better time would be when the kids are on holiday, and the weather is a lot better, so less risk of bad weather delaying things, so maybe sometime in July or August maybe ?

I don't see the need for the smiley. It sounds quite sensible to me and actually, I thought it was already sometimes being done on commuter routes.