bramling
Veteran Member
He did say 'forced' to work.
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The annual "Boxing Day Trains" row.
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He did say 'forced' to work.
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bramling
Veteran Member
just less than 30 mins to go folks - no doubt it will all be forgotten about until next year.
Good. Just got to get new year over with, then hopefully 11 months of blissful normality.
No, he said:
(emphasis added)
Ie if he's paid enough, he will do it. Even if not forced.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
The John Lewis store nearest to where we live was closed on Boxing Day,
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Though Boxing Day trains aren't by and large taxi services for drunks. I used Merseyrail yesterday, it allowed me to do a "run out, train back" type thing. No need for it really but it was a pleasant morning. OTOH, I travel north to my family and back on Boxing Day each year by car, it'd be by train if there were any, and on the way back the M6 and M1 were busy - plenty of demand for the WCML there.
With regard to Christmas Eve this year, it was a special case - because it was a Saturday most who would normally travel on 24th did on 23rd.
With regard to staff being forced to work - for a reduced service like that on Merseyrail you don't need everyone, so if you make a good enough offer people will work. My Mum used to happily do Boxing Day in a bank call centre for, if I recall rightly, triple time (or may have been double + time off in lieu). And my observation of Merseyrail yesterday was of cheerful staff who were running a short day of easy, slackly timed services very much without the drunks (with the "fun" aspect of being able to run fast like the "big" railway). It didn't give the impression of people who didn't want to be there.
didcotdean
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The conditions generally in place on the railway when Boxing Day services were first completely removed in England and Wales (1975) was time-and-a-half plus a day off in lieu.
The estimate then was that the total number of passengers would be 55,000.
The estimate then was that the total number of passengers would be 55,000.
EM2
Established Member
And how have you done that in the past?
Surely the obvious answer is to ask for volunteers back in the summer- gives plenty of time for planning & publicity. If enough come forward at all necessary grades, operate a service, if they don't, then no service. No compulsory working, but if the money's right it could suit some staff who have no other commitments.
I travelled on boxing day from rickmansworth to elm park. There were quite a few people around, about a third to half of seats taken. Definitely worth running the service. Final destination was romford so had to get bus from elm park as no greater Anglia! Keep Christmas day train free in my opinion.
bramling
Veteran Member
No, selective quoting.
He said "You may be perfectly happy to work Boxing Day but I assure there aren't enough like you to run a rail service without either being forced to or making the pay lucrative".
It doesn't follow that *he* would work Boxing Day by choice.
Stand corrected on that. Sorry to Dave!
Neither JL or Waitrose open on Boxing Day and have not done for a long time (Except in a few convenience stores in central London where staff have offered to work). The reason? The unique way the Partnership is run means staff across the company would have to vote in favour of opening on Boxing Day.
A contribution about staff power seems relevant in this thread!
matt_world2004
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Given the choice I would rather work boxing day rather save my holiday for when it's warm
SteveP29
Member
So by saying that, are you advocating that cinemas and theatres be closed on these days too, as they are as 'entertainment' as much as sporting events are?
route:oxford
Established Member
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For me it's usually BA from EDI to LHR, relying on a taxi or relative to take me to the airport from the Highlands. The "Airline" service along with a Stagecoach bus at the Oxford end.
I'd much rather take the train at the Scottish end to avoid the cost of a taxi or the expectation on a relative to taxi me.
route:oxford
Established Member
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You protested about access to retail parks.
But now you claim you don't do retail parks, you don't do Christmas.
So what interest do you have in the whole affair?
bramling
Veteran Member
Using transport that is affected by retail parks?
ian959
Member
Meantime, some places not only have services on Boxing Day but also on Christmas Day. These places seem to have no problems with the arrangements and everything seems to work fine. Western Australia for instance. We can catch a train/bus/ferry on Christmas Day because the government has decided that whilst the demand is not huge, the suburban public transport network is a socially and economically necessary service that is required by people on Christmas Day who happen to work or don't have access to cars, amongst other things.
dk1
Veteran Member
Much respect to John Lewis & there staff. Hope they had a wonderful Boxing Day.
E16 Cyclist
Member
Its ironic how many rail staff spent their boxing day on a rail forum saying they'd never work boxing day...
Anyway removing the emotion from the argument the reason we don't have more boxing day services isn't actually the fault of staff not wanting to give up their holiday time but the train operating companies don't actually want to run more services as its not financially in their interest to do so, Chiltern for example are paid a fairly sizeable sum by Bicester Village to operate services boxing day and had they not done so would have been a lot less interested in providing any sort of boxing day service at all. Sadly we have to accept since privatisation the railways are operated for profit and not to act as a public service and despite whatever events happen on boxing day there isn't as much demand as people think and that makes them not commercially viable
Anyway removing the emotion from the argument the reason we don't have more boxing day services isn't actually the fault of staff not wanting to give up their holiday time but the train operating companies don't actually want to run more services as its not financially in their interest to do so, Chiltern for example are paid a fairly sizeable sum by Bicester Village to operate services boxing day and had they not done so would have been a lot less interested in providing any sort of boxing day service at all. Sadly we have to accept since privatisation the railways are operated for profit and not to act as a public service and despite whatever events happen on boxing day there isn't as much demand as people think and that makes them not commercially viable
dk1
Veteran Member
Because we can do that & drink beer at the same time unlike...
tsr
Established Member
Whilst they may not have opened yesterday, on the traditional calendar date for Boxing Day, I certainly saw at least one or two larger Waitrose stores open on the "Bank Holiday in lieu of whichever day it is" today, whereas the one I wanted to use in London was firmly closed!
Why? I use the GWR in the SW over this period and what you say certainly isn't true in that case, although around the south east it is a different story of course. People who disagree aren't necessarily 'talking rubbish' at all. Still an element of first group not upsetting their
corporate buddies in the SW.
blakey1152
Member
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Southeastern used to run a service on Boxing Day on some of their metro routes although not all stations were open. I remember going up to London Victoria on a "fast" train from Slade Green with no stops one year - It was lovely!
As for the engineering work, It might have been the ongoing Crossrail work at Abbey Wood that's to blame or London Bridge as even though it's nowhere near HS1 or Ashford that's what Southeastern usually blame any engineering works on....
Blakey
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I would agree with this, and for the right money I suspect the required amount of volunteers would be easily obtained. If they aren't, up the money until they are (or it becomes uneconomic, in which case don't bother).
If the railway wants to provide a service, and some staff want to work, potentially for a higher sum, to provide it, I don't see why any other staff should seek to prevent them from doing so. However I do think it should be "volunteers only" so nobody is forced to work it.
The thing is, Merseyrail have done it for two years now - it is clearly viable - and that is in a city which is typically "left-leaning" and union-driven when it comes to industrial relations - so you can be sure that if the staff didn't want to work it, it wouldn't have happened.
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