the most over the top restrictions introduced

[duncanp]

Same way as everything’s being enforced to date, by public shaming and snitching busybodies.

Reports this morning say two workers in the Bolton area were issued with £1,000 FPNs after returning, respectively, from Spain and the Netherlands, going back to work on Monday, and being dobbed in by their colleagues.

And presumably there will be a load of Karens outside the pub at 10:01pm tonight with their phones switched on ready to be "shocked" and "disgusted" on Faceache/****ter/Mumsnet about someone locking up a minute too late.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Reports this morning say two workers in the Bolton area were issued with £1,000 FPNs after returning, respectively, from Spain and the Netherlands, going back to work on Monday, and being dobbed in by their colleagues.

Good. If that was not acceptable for them, they should not have gone on holiday. Why are some people so utterly thick and selfish as to think it does not apply to them?

 

[bramling]

Good. If that was not acceptable for them, they should not have gone on holiday. Why are some people so utterly thick and selfish as to think it does not apply to them?

Whilst I agree (though with cases rising here one does begin to question the point of the quarantines), I don’t like snitching. The system should be robust enough to work without needing it.

 

[Mag_seven]

Of course the 14 day quarantine thing would be completely unnecessary if you were allowed to take a test (with a negative result) on arrival back and 5 days later (also with a negative result). But the government won't entertain the idea for some reason. That wouldn't have anything to do with testing capacity by any chance?

 

[BJames]

I think I have found how they would implement it:






This tweet of the National Clinical Director of the Scottish Government has the key of it (remembering that in Scotland indoor visits between households are banned since yesterday); if the UK Government decides to adopt this household restriction for England, they may use it to have a legal basis to justify the restrictions to students (not only in Christmas, but at any time during the length of this restriction).

This rule may not apply to students who live alone, who can form an extended household with the members of a different household.

Interesting, but my stance has not changed. I will return to my family home at Christmas. I suspect my fellow students (not just on here but on my campus too) will be the same.

But this is interesting not just for Christmas, but for now. For most students in first year, this is the first time they've been away from home for an extended period of time. Almost all of them go home once or twice, or in some instances more, over the first term. To not be able to return home at all could have serious mental health consequences for them. But once again this is not important because it is not Covid.

Of course the 14 day quarantine thing would be completely unnecessary if you were allowed to take a test (with a negative result) on arrival back and 5 days later (also with a negative result). But the government won't entertain the idea for some reason. That wouldn't have anything to do with testing capacity by any chance?

Quite. The idea is shot down by ministers any time it is mentioned.

Testing capacity needs urgent fixing.

 

[talldave]

Of course the 14 day quarantine thing would be completely unnecessary if you were allowed to take a test (with a negative result) on arrival back and 5 days later (also with a negative result). But the government won't entertain the idea for some reason. That wouldn't have anything to do with testing capacity by any chance?

You can bypass all the quarantine rubbish by chartering a private jet .

 

[takno]

Interesting, but my stance has not changed. I will return to my family home at Christmas. I suspect my fellow students (not just on here but on my campus too) will be the same.

But this is interesting not just for Christmas, but for now. For most students in first year, this is the first time they've been away from home for an extended period of time. Almost all of them go home once or twice, or in some instances more, over the first term. To not be able to return home at all could have serious mental health consequences for them. But once again this is not important because it is not Covid.


Quite. The idea is shot down by ministers any time it is mentioned.

Testing capacity needs urgent fixing.

I loved being at uni, and spent very little time at home by the end, but I went home or visiting friends at other unis several times in the first term. It would have been hard to last 11 weeks without that. I also would have struggled a lot if my older brother hadn't come home during his first term.

Announcing these rules in Scotland this week when students have gone away and won't be able to change their minds is just vicious.

They seem to be building an organized system of cruelty, in pursuit of an absurdly unattainable Goal. Frankly I don't think some of them are even in pursuit of a goal anymore - they're just bitter people focused on making life unliveable for whichever group of "spreaders" comes into their line of sight next.

 

[duncanp]

And so it came to pass.

In Scotland, Her Majesty Queen Nicola has decreed that students across Scotland have been ordered not to return home to visit their families as they are now a separate household, and legally off limits.

I am sure that will go down like a lead balloon, and be almost impossible to enforce.

Where is the democratic debate about decisions like this?

Has the mental welfare of students been taken into consideration?

For many students, going to university is their first time away from home, and once the novelty of being at university wears off, and the reality of course work and lectures sets it, they need to be able to talk to someone.

If precedent is true, no doubt such a rule will be introduced in England in about a weeks time.

Students across Scotland banned from returning home to visit families

STUDENTS in Scotland have been ordered not to return home to visit their families as they are now a “separate household” and legally…

www.heraldscotland.com

STUDENTS in Scotland have been ordered not to return home to visit their families as they are now a “separate household” and legally off-limits.

National Clinical Director Professor Jason Leitch said the law on indoor meetings applied to “even mum and dad”.

However meetings between two households of up to six people are still allowed outdoors and in pubs, and there are exceptions on home visits for carers.

In an update on Twitter this lunchtime, Prof Leitch said: “Was asked…. whether students in halls and flats can go back to parents’ homes. To clarify, they are a separate household.

“There are exceptions, eg caring responsibilities, but the law is clear: they can’t meet indoors with another household – even mum and dad. Sorry.”

 

[talldave]

Time for rebellion I think. If I remember my student days correctly (looooong time ago), there should be a big appetite for ignoring stupid rules!

 

[MattA7]

You would think the younger population would be the last group of people she would want to upset as most SNP voters tend to be younger and of course it’s often that same group of people who Are more likely to support her precious Scottish independence ideology

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Wee Krankie's lost the plot.

Covid: Scottish university students told not to go to pubs

Students are told not to socialise outside of their accommodation this weekend in a bid to stem Covid.

www.bbc.co.uk

Students are to be ordered not to go to pubs, parties or restaurants in a bid to stem a spate of coronavirus outbreaks at Scottish universities.

Hundreds of students have tested positive at campuses across the country, with many more self-isolating.

Universities have now pledged to make it "absolutely clear" to students that there must be no parties.

And they will not be allowed to socialise with anyone outside of their accommodation.

Students have also been warned that any breaches of the new rules "will not be tolerated".

The stricter guidelines were announced after opposition leaders accused First Minister Nicola Sturgeon of a "basic failure" to anticipate the problem and provide more testing on university campuses.

Universities Scotland said the new guidance that had been agreed with the Scottish government was a "necessary step at this crucial moment of managing the virus in the student population, to protect students and the wider community".

The new rules state that all universities will "make absolutely clear to students that there must be no parties, and no socialising outside their households".

They go on to say: "This weekend, the first of the new tighter Scottish government guidance, we will require students to avoid all socialising outside of their households and outside of their accommodation.

"We will ask them not to go to bars or other hospitality venues."

Extra staff will be brought into student accommodation to watch for any breaches of the guidance and to support students who are self-isolating.

Police Scotland will also be monitoring student behaviour off-campus and in private accommodation.

And private providers of student accommodation will also be urged to strictly enforce the guidance.

Students will also be required to download the Protect Scotland app.

The guidance warns: "We will take a strict 'Yellow Card/Red Card' approach to breaches of student discipline that put students and others at risk.

"While we first want to advise students about breaches of discipline, we will not hesitate to escalate this to disciplinary action including potential discontinuation of study."

(my bold)

 

[duncanp]

I think there is more chance of Lord Lucan catching a live haggis on the moon than Scottish students obeying this rule.

Her Majesty Queen Nicola should realise that all these students have votes in the Scottish Parliament elections next year, and that there will be some comeback against her and the SNP (hopefully) for bullying and threatening students in this wholly unacceptable way.

She needs to remember that students go to universities, not monasteries or prisons.

From my time living in Scotland I can remember the expresson Awa an bile yer heid, and that is what I would say to her if I was at university in Scotland at the moment.

 

[Richard Scott]

And now the government is actively considering refusing to rule out banning students from returning home during the Christmas holidays.

That is absolutely disgusting, it's verging on the inhumane. Whatever you say/think about people of university age they still need to see family. Just when you think this government cannot get any worse, then it does.

 

[DB]

That is absolutely disgusting, it's verging on the inhumane. Whatever you say/think about people of university age they still need to see family. Just when you think this government cannot get any worse, then it does.

If that's announced, wonder how many students wil prompty drop out of their course / go off sick so that they can travel home? I suspect it'll be a fair number, particularly int he first year.

 

[Richard Scott]

If that's announced, wonder how many students wil prompty drop out of their course / go off sick so that they can travel home? I suspect it'll be a fair number, particularly int he first year.

It's really unfair and bang out of my order. I remember university and whilst I didn't rush home at every opportunity I did look forward to going home and seeing family. This is possibly one of the most disgusting inhumane proposals this bunch of clowns have come up with. I cannot believe it, they have totally lost the plot. I really cannot see any sane individual voting for them at next election.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I loved being at uni, and spent very little time at home by the end

Must admit that I mostly stayed at uni during the holidays too. It was quite nice having a halls of residence flat/house to myself and a city to explore. I just went home for 3 days or so over Christmas.

 

[Huntergreed]

I’m so angry at the Scottish government.

I’m a student right now in Glasgow.

Not allowed to go to pubs/restaurants

Not allowed to go to anyone’s house/flat

Advised against meeting anyone outside our household.

Sounds like I’ll be getting held at uni over Christmas.

Illegal to see my family.

I’ve went through rough patches before with mental health, but with these rules are really pushing me over the edge. If it gets worse or stays like this for long I genuinely don’t know what I’ll do, and I’m normally okay with rough(ish) stuff.

How do I try and take action against this? This for a virus with a 99%+ death rate that kills an average age of 83. It’s just so tough

 

[bramling]

I’m so angry at the Scottish government.

I’m a student right now in Glasgow.

Not allowed to go to pubs/restaurants

Not allowed to go to anyone’s house/flat

Advised against meeting anyone outside our household.

Sounds like I’ll be getting held at uni over Christmas.

Illegal to see my family.

I’ve went through rough patches before with mental health, but with these rules are really pushing me over the edge. If it gets worse or stays like this for long I genuinely don’t know what I’ll do, and I’m normally okay with rough(ish) stuff.

How do I try and take action against this? This for a virus with a 99%+ death rate that kills an average age of 83. It’s just so tough

Could be worth writing to MP (and/or Scottish Parliament equivalent), and encouraging others to do same. Emphasise the effects on wellbeing, and gently hint that this might have consequences for future voting intentions. Useless on its own, but if enough people do same then ears might start to twitch.

Personally I’d be tempted to ignore the government’s requirements, but it would be more difficult to ignore anything imposed by the uni.

 

[Richard Scott]

I’m so angry at the Scottish government.

I’m a student right now in Glasgow.

Not allowed to go to pubs/restaurants

Not allowed to go to anyone’s house/flat

Advised against meeting anyone outside our household.

Sounds like I’ll be getting held at uni over Christmas.

Illegal to see my family.

I’ve went through rough patches before with mental health, but with these rules are really pushing me over the edge. If it gets worse or stays like this for long I genuinely don’t know what I’ll do, and I’m normally okay with rough(ish) stuff.

How do I try and take action against this? This for a virus with a 99%+ death rate that kills an average age of 83. It’s just so tough

It's difficult to offer any advise but be assured any support that can be offered on this forum I'm sure will be. I do feel for you as know I would have felt the same. University is supposed to be a great time in your life and I'm ashamed to say it's my generation with their ludicrous decision making ruining it for your age group. I work with youngsters and gave always spoken up for them throughout this. I know it's not much solace but my sister works by at Edinburgh uni and is pulling her hair out over all of this.

 

[duncanp]

If that's announced, wonder how many students wil prompty drop out of their course / go off sick so that they can travel home? I suspect it'll be a fair number, particularly int he first year.

One aspect of university study in England which does not apply in Scotland is that English students pay tuition fees of up to £9,000 per year.

So universities now see students as paying customers and students are increasingly demanding value for money on their courses.

So if TwMatt Hancock tried to introduce the don't you dare enjoy yourself rule in England that Mrs Krankie is trying to introduce in Scotland, the universities would be reluctant to discipline students to the point of expulsion, as to do so would mean waving goodbye to all their tuition fee income.

Has anyone questioned whether universities in Scotland actually have the legal right to ban students from going to the pub?

Do students in Scotland sign a contract giving universities the right to regulate their lives in this totalitarian and dictatorial way? If not, then Mrs Krankie is on dodgy legal ground, and I sincerely hope that someone challenges her right to behave in this way.

I bet Police Scotland won't be travelling around the rougher parts of Glasgow late at night checking whether people are socialising outside their households.

 

[Scotrail12]

Hold on - I’m a uni student and live with parents. I’ve had no physical contact of less than 2m with any other student since March and even though classes have resumed, I’ve not even seen anyone in person.

Given that it mentions ‘households’, does this seriously mean that I can’t go out when I have nothing to do with student accommodation?

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

The pub ban is apparently for this weekend only.

https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1309195237332525056

And to clarify one point: today’s @uni_scot advice to students to stay away from pubs/hospitality completely is just for this weekend - it’s an attempt to stop current outbreaks spreading further.

 

[Scotrail12]

Time for Wee Nippy to go. This is taking it a step too far. One thing having restrictions to stop the virus spreading, but this is taking the mickey big time.

I hope she loses next year (apologies for bringing up politics).

 

[Huntergreed]

Time for Wee Nippy to go. This is taking it a step too far. One thing having restrictions to stop the virus spreading, but this is taking the michael big time.

I hope she loses next year (apologies for bringing up politics).

I agree, she needs to go, and this must stop NOW.

Sadly she has the universities in the palm of her hand so if we don’t comply then we can get chucked out or expelled.

It’s absolutely awful

 

[DB]

The pub ban is apparently for this weekend only.

https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1309195237332525056

Yeah, because staying away from the pub for one weekend will make all the difference, won't it?

Especially as (assuming things haven't changed since my student days) many students go out mid-week anyway because it's cheaper.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The elephant in the room is schools. Everything else, as you can see from when the graph went on the up, is twiddling round the edges.

They had since March to design and recruit for a way to socially distance in schools. They failed. Epically.

 

[BJames]

I read that pub "ban" as advice rather than anything else, I wonder how many places will be actively turning students away and how many will just let them in anyway as they need the money?

That is wholly unacceptable though. And as I said earlier, if I wanted to go home I would directly ignore this decree and do so anyway. I see this as "changing households" for the month or so I would be at home in Christmas. It matters very little to me what the government think about this.

Yeah, because staying away from the pub for one weekend will make all the difference, won't it?

Especially as (assuming things haven't changed since my student days) many students go out mid-week anyway because it's cheaper.

Exactly. It's going to do nothing. Another ridiculous, useless policy. Especially if it's only one weekend... anyone infected on Sunday is very likely to still be infected on Monday!

The elephant in the room is schools. Everything else, as you can see from when the graph went on the up, is twiddling round the edges.

They had since March to design and recruit for a way to socially distance in schools. They failed. Epically.

I do see your point but realistically, it's not possible to socially distance in schools if all students are to be in full time attendance.

 

[DB]

They had since March to design and recruit for a way to socially distance in schools. They failed. Epically.

Realistically, it couldn't be done. The basic fact is they are pursuing a policy (elimination) which will never work, and the longer they try to make it work the more damage will be caused in every other aspect of society.

 

[kez19]

The pub ban is apparently for this weekend only.

https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1309195237332525056

Yes one weekend will do it... does she have a magic wand?

 

[duncanp]

I’m so angry at the Scottish government.

I’m a student right now in Glasgow.

Not allowed to go to pubs/restaurants

Not allowed to go to anyone’s house/flat

Advised against meeting anyone outside our household.

Sounds like I’ll be getting held at uni over Christmas.

Illegal to see my family.

I’ve went through rough patches before with mental health, but with these rules are really pushing me over the edge. If it gets worse or stays like this for long I genuinely don’t know what I’ll do, and I’m normally okay with rough(ish) stuff.

How do I try and take action against this? This for a virus with a 99%+ death rate that kills an average age of 83. It’s just so tough

I would seriously consider questioning whether the Scottish Government actually has the right to stop you from seeing your family, and also whether the Scottish government has the right to stop you from going to the pub.

Perhaps your parents could help you with this, or you could contact Citizens Advice Scotland. You might also wish to contact your student union for advice on this, or set up a petition at https://www.parliament.scot/gettinginvolved/petitions/index.aspx, and use social media to promote this, whilst also writing to your MSP. (reminding him or her that you have a vote at next years elections)

Under the Human Rights Act you have a right to family life, and no public authority can interfere with this right ".. except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others..." (from legislation.gov.uk)

The Scottish government would have to show that preventing you from travelling to see your family was a necessary and proportionate response to the public health threat posed by COVID-19, and the legal case would hinge on whether the powers conferred on the Scottish government by the Coronavirus Act 2020 overrides the provisions of the Human Rights Act as applied to Scotland. They would have to be able to show that the mere act of travelling from Glasgow to your home location (Dumfries ?) poses a serious threat to public health, and they would have to be able to explain to a court why they have not issued such advice to the general population.

Of course the Scottish government is relying on bullying and threatening young people who it thinks are not going to stand up for themselves. I sincerely hope that the great tradition of student protests brings about a reversal of this wholly unwarranted attack on your right to go about your lawful business.