The Nicola and Alex Show

Status
Not open for further replies.

Senex

Established Member
Joined
1 Apr 2014
Messages
2,610
Location
York

Summary​

  1. Nicola Sturgeon says her predecessor Alex Salmond was a "tough guy" to work for but she had not heard concerns about his alleged sexual behaviour
  2. Scotland's first minister says "relevant" information linked to the investigation of harassment complaints against her predecessor has not been hidden
  3. In January 2019, the Scottish government paid Alex Salmond's £500,000 legal bill after it admitted acting unlawfully
  4. A special Holyrood committee, which is looking into what went wrong, has heard from Mr Salmond and now it is Ms Sturgeon's turn
  5. Ms Sturgeon told a special Holyrood committee, which is looking into what went wrong, that suggestions of a plot against Alex Salmond were "absurd"
  6. In her opening statement she apologises to the two women who brought the claims about Mr Salmond's behaviour and to the "wider public"
  7. Scotland's former leader told MSPs last week that there was a deliberate attempt - by a number of people he named - to remove him from public life
  8. Mr Salmond went on to accuse the civil service, the Crown Office and the Scottish government of "many and obvious" failures in leadership


The BBC seems to be having a field-day with current goings-on in Edinburgh, with a lot of time devoted to it all, quite probing interviews, some good background stuff.

So why does it shew us that it can do a good searching job in Scotland but handles London and the ministers of the Westminster government with such pristine kid gloves?

Anyone might think the London state broadcaster was toeing the government line here and trying to help the UK government by attacking the Scottish people as much as possible. (Or could it be much simpler — that Sarah Smith is a much better political journalist than her London counterparts?)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

SargeNpton

Member
Joined
19 Nov 2018
Messages
646
Elsewhere you will find people slagging off the BBC's handling of Westminster and the Tory government as being too left-wing/woke/insert other term here.

I guess that what you perceive to be bias against any particular subject or organisation will be dependant on your own point of view.

When two people within the same organisation, formerly friends, are having a go at each other it will always be a target for press interest.
 

DarloRich

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
26,453
Location
Fenny Stratford
So why does it shew us that it can do a good searching job in Scotland but handles London and the ministers of the Westminster government with such pristine kid gloves


Because the Scottish government has no power over the BBC and cant cancel the license fee or cut of the flow of information from "sources close to the minister" or interviews with ministers. It is clear that C4 news and GMB were blacklisted by the Tories for daring to point out lies and bull.

Elsewhere you will find people slagging off the BBC's handling of Westminster and the Tory government as being too left-wing/woke/insert other term here.

I guess that what you perceive to be bias against any particular subject or organisation will be dependant on your own point of view.

When two people within the same organisation, formerly friends, are having a go at each other it will always be a target for press interest.


What they actually mean is: The BBC does not reinforce my prejudice and I only want to read stories that do and/or agree with my world view.
 
Last edited:

backontrack

Established Member
Joined
2 Feb 2014
Messages
6,381
Location
The UK
It's intriguing that Andrew Neil has so keenly jumped into the fray. He's hardly probed the English government - I guess we all know his political dispositions though...
 
Joined
22 Sep 2011
Messages
6
Falling into a typical SNP line of reasoning here. No-one is attacking the "Scottish people". The SNP, the Scottish Government and the Scottish people are not one and the same no matter how much Chief Mammy and her loyal acolytes would have you believe otherwise with their narrative.

FWIW the BBC is not biased against the Scottish Government and indeed it, and other news organisations, would probably be going much further if a similar scandal had arisen concerning Boris Johnson and David Cameron.
 

Scotrail314209

Established Member
Joined
1 Feb 2017
Messages
2,063
Location
From Paisley, sadly.

Interesting development, the Scottish Conservatives seem to be preparing a vote of no confidence in Nicola Sturgeon.

Thoughts on this?
NICOLA Sturgeon will face a vote of no confidence after the Tories accused her of “lying to the Scottish Parliament" and breaking the ministerial code on "numerous counts.”
 
Last edited:

chorleyjeff

Member
Joined
3 May 2013
Messages
614
The BBC seems to be having a field-day with current goings-on in Edinburgh, with a lot of time devoted to it all, quite probing interviews, some good background stuff. So why does it shew us that it can do a good searching job in Scotland but handles London and the ministers of the Westminster government with such pristine kid gloves? Anyone might think the London state broadcaster was toeing the government line here and trying to help the UK government by attacking the Scottish people as much as possible. (Or could it be much simpler — that Sarah Smith is a much better political journalist than her London counterparts?)
Surely the main aspect here is the lack of scrutiny by MSM in Scotland and the questions raised by the fact of a virtual one party state govt abusing its powers. Seems it took an English journal to dig in and be brave enough to disclose inconvenient facts. Lack of political opposition to all govts in power ( eg Corbyn's Labour party ) allows govts to get away with too much.

It's intriguing that Andrew Neil has so keenly jumped into the fray. He's hardly probed the English government - I guess we all know his political dispositions though...
He seems to be one of the few journalists who asks all politicians difficult questions and then follows up with more difficult questions. Apparently Mr Johnson was frit of giving him an interview before the last General election.
 

Journeyman

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2014
Messages
6,295
I know this is wishful thinking, because The Faithful will never abandon her, but I hope this prevents an SNP majority in May. I'm absolutely sick of them now, they need to go before they ruin us.
 

GusB

Established Member
Associate Staff
Buses & Coaches
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
4,188
Location
Elginshire
Surely the main aspect here is the lack of scrutiny by MSM in Scotland and the questions raised by the fact of a virtual one party state govt abusing its powers. Seems it took an English journal to dig in and be brave enough to disclose inconvenient facts. Lack of political opposition to all govts in power ( eg Corbyn's Labour party ) allows govts to get away with too much.
I really don't know where you're getting this ridiculous idea that Scotland is a "virtual one party state" when it's clearly not true. There are five main parties represented in Holyrood, and it even has one seat occupied by Reform UK. The current Scottish Government is a minority administration. If you're upset by the fact that the SNP keep getting elected, you can blame the voters who put them there under a democratic system - one which is proportional unlike the system we have for the UK.

To stay on topic, I really don't know what to make of the current fiasco. To have such disharmony in the run up to an election is not good, although despite this polls suggest that the SNP is still on course for an overall majority (obviously we can't always rely on polls). I'd like to see a majority of independence supporting MSPs, but at the same time I'm extremely disappointed in the SNP. I'll have to see which parties are on the ballot paper, but I'm seriously considering spoiling my constituency vote.
 

DarloRich

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
26,453
Location
Fenny Stratford
Amazing that alleged breaches of the ministerial code in Scotland are worthy of such coverage yet actual breaches of the ministerial code in London are not. I wonder why ?
 

takno

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
3,984
I really don't know where you're getting this ridiculous idea that Scotland is a "virtual one party state" when it's clearly not true. There are five main parties represented in Holyrood, and it even has one seat occupied by Reform UK. The current Scottish Government is a minority administration. If you're upset by the fact that the SNP keep getting elected, you can blame the voters who put them there under a democratic system - one which is proportional unlike the system we have for the UK.
I think one-party state is a bit of an overstatement, but it does feel like there's been over 10 years of pretty bad government, and the elections and discourse has been so centred on the independence question that there is effectively no democratic oversight of how the country is being run. Certainly the SNP has largely been a minority administration throughout, but propped up very avidly by the Greens, who achieve very little in return and are getting hollowed out faster than the Social Democrats in Germany.
 

Journeyman

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2014
Messages
6,295
I think one-party state is a bit of an overstatement, but it does feel like there's been over 10 years of pretty bad government, and the elections and discourse has been so centred on the independence question that there is effectively no democratic oversight of how the country is being run. Certainly the SNP has largely been a minority administration throughout, but propped up very avidly by the Greens, who achieve very little in return and are getting hollowed out faster than the Social Democrats in Germany.
I utterly loathe the way the SNP run Scotland. They're acting like they have a divine right to rule, and take the credit for everything good that happens in Scotland, while conveniently blaming everything bad on Unionist bogeymen who won't give them enough power or money. They care about absolutely nothing besides holding another referendum, which if won would likely plunge Scotland into chaos and years of absolutely gruesome austerity, which they patently refuse to be honest about. I'm also sick of their arrogant claims that they're fundamentally more honest and less corrupt than other parties, which right now is proving to be extremely dishonest.

We desperately need rid of them before they ruin us completely.
 

takno

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
3,984
I utterly loathe the way the SNP run Scotland. They're acting like they have a divine right to rule, and take the credit for everything good that happens in Scotland, while conveniently blaming everything bad on Unionist bogeymen who won't give them enough power or money. They care about absolutely nothing besides holding another referendum, which if won would likely plunge Scotland into chaos and years of absolutely gruesome austerity, which they patently refuse to be honest about. I'm also sick of their arrogant claims that they're fundamentally more honest and less corrupt than other parties, which right now is proving to be extremely dishonest.

We desperately need rid of them before they ruin us completely.
Ultimately I think the case for independence needs rid of them. I couldn't in all conscience vote for independent government by the current shower. Alec wrecked the police and fire, and heavily attacked both local democracy and the fundamentals of the justice system. Nicola is just a weird combination of inept, autocratic and self-satisfied. Both just treated Westminster as a bogeyman to push all the blame on for everything.

The current power games not only reduce the government to a pathetic soap opera, but simultaneously make a mockery of the Scottish justice system and the civil service. I'm starting to think that independence isn't even a real aim for them - it just feels like cover for their own self-aggrandisement
 

Journeyman

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2014
Messages
6,295
Ultimately I think the case for independence needs rid of them. I couldn't in all conscience vote for independent government by the current shower. Alec wrecked the police and fire, and heavily attacked both local democracy and the fundamentals of the justice system. Nicola is just a weird combination of inept, autocratic and self-satisfied. Both just treated Westminster as a bogeyman to push all the blame on for everything.

The current power games not only reduce the government to a pathetic soap opera, but simultaneously make a mockery of the Scottish justice system and the civil service. I'm starting to think that independence isn't even a real aim for them - it just feels like cover for their own self-aggrandisement
Absolutely spot on. The SNP made some absolutely colossal cock-ups reorganising the emergency services, which turned into a naked power grab, and when they made a huge mess with it that made the police and fire services liable to VAT, they tried to blame anyone but themselves. It was pretty obvious that Salmond wanted to crown himself the King of Scotland, and the personality cult around senior SNP figures is ridiculous. Nicola talks a good game and loves publicity, but she's absolutely hopeless, and ignores that fact that about half the country is absolutely sick of the independence debate and wants it to go away. The SNP are, in my mind, responsible for an absolutely gross dereliction of duty in failing to govern the country properly.

You're absolutely right, I'm currently opposed to independence because it just seems like an attempt to win power for the sake of it with these people. I think they've managed to convince enough people at the bottom of the pile that Scotland is suddenly going to become a land of milk and honey if we keep the faith and vote Yes, but these people already have a lot of power and have failed to deal with fundamental problems over and over again. A classic example is that for years they promised to reverse bus deregulation, but as soon as Brian Souter bunged them a few million, that policy mysteriously disappeared.
 

Scotrail314209

Established Member
Joined
1 Feb 2017
Messages
2,063
Location
From Paisley, sadly.
I'm relatively glad independence didn't happen in 2014, if this came along it'd be sayonara to most benefits as our economy would fall down with no Westminster to help us out.
 

smtglasgow

Member
Joined
15 Feb 2011
Messages
448
Location
Glasgow & London
Ultimately I think the case for independence needs rid of them
Probably not the answer you were looking for, but paradoxically, the best way to be rid of the SNP would be through independence. The SNP is a remarkably broad coalition united by their desire for independence – once that’s out the way the coalition will splinter. For example, Fergus Ewing is really a wet Tory in political outlook, but shares a party with many left of centre social democrats. An independent Scotland would offer huge opportunities for new Scottish versions of Labour and Conservative.

But the main point – which obviously winds up a lot of folk – is that the SNP dominates Scottish politics because they keep winning. Enough people think they’re doing a good enough job to keep electing them – at local, national and UK levels. I’m not one of them – I’m essentially a Labour supporter – but Brexit has turned me from a no to a yes voter, so I hope we get the chance to have another go at independence in the next few years. And for what it’s worth, I rate Nicola Sturgeon in a way I never could Salmond – and i’m not alone in that.
 

wireforever

Member
Joined
7 Feb 2019
Messages
118
I think there needs to be a rule change the FM of the devolved admins can only serve for 2 parliaments likewise the Prime Minister of the UK.In the case of Sturgeon she will win a vote of no confidence her powerful backers will ensure a SNP victory in May and then another Indy vote will take place eventually
 

PaulMc7

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2019
Messages
2,842
Realistically the only way to get rid of the SNP is through independence. When Labour and Tories are the main opposition it's not hard for them to keep winning
 

takno

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
3,984
Realistically the only way to get rid of the SNP is through independence. When Labour and Tories are the main opposition it's not hard for them to keep winning
Personally I think that Labour would be better off taking a neutral position on independence, and certainly I think there is potential for the growth of some other alternative parties. I just don't buy the idea that all I have to do is vote for independence and the ridiculous soap opera will magically be replaced with solid good government. I think it's more likely that Nicola would, through incompetence, an undue belief in her own ability, and pure overambition, mess up all the groundwork. We'd end up as an absolute mess of a barely-democratic country, which the EU would decline to touch with a bargepole.
 

HSTEd

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Jul 2011
Messages
14,126
Realistically the only way to get rid of the SNP is through independence. When Labour and Tories are the main opposition it's not hard for them to keep winning

It's been 30 years since the ANC won in South Africa, despite being a coalition of peopel who hate each other.
They are still going, despite numerous corruption scandals.

I'm afraid the SNP are here forever, even if independence happens.

Unless ofcourse the young people who voted for them end up emigrating to England when they realise freedom of movement with Eastern Europe isn't actually worth much to them once the economic shocks from separation do a number on the Scottish economy.
 

AlterEgo

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2008
Messages
15,174
Location
No longer here
I'm relatively glad independence didn't happen in 2014, if this came along it'd be sayonara to most benefits as our economy would fall down with no Westminster to help us out.
The SNP is just playing Brexit on a smaller playing board but with far worse mistakes, like not even knowing how the currency will work or whether or not they’ll have an army (better start recruiting: don’t forget which flag the current army salutes...). They have no idea whatsoever what independence will actually look like, but we are all reassured it is definitely not about Dislike of the English.

I'm amused at people who think the fudge of Brexit is a whopping great reason to support the SNP's idea of independence. I'm not opposed to independence per se, in fact I'm rather uninterested in what Scotland decides to do - but independence as per the SNP will be like watching a very fast car crash as opposed to the slow fender-bender happening with Brexit.
 
Joined
25 Jan 2016
Messages
463
Location
Wolverhampton
The scandal has hit the First Minister electorally, with 2 Labour Gains in 2 North Lanarkshire By-Elections and restores Labour to being largest Party in that bit of Scotland.

It also gives Keir and Anas Sarwar, there first By-Election successes since taking over
 

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
11,798
Personally I think that Labour would be better off taking a neutral position on independence, and certainly I think there is potential for the growth of some other alternative parties. I just don't buy the idea that all I have to do is vote for independence and the ridiculous soap opera will magically be replaced with solid good government. I think it's more likely that Nicola would, through incompetence, an undue belief in her own ability, and pure overambition, mess up all the groundwork. We'd end up as an absolute mess of a barely-democratic country, which the EU would decline to touch with a bargepole.
A vote for independence would leave Scotland in a worse negotiating position than the UK was with the EU at Brexit. It would be financially ruinous for Scotland, and it's not like Scotland is a net contributor financially to the rest of the UK (which the UK was to the EU) - why would the remains of the UK give Scotland a good deal?
 

HSTEd

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Jul 2011
Messages
14,126
A vote for independence would leave Scotland in a worse negotiating position than the UK was with the EU at Brexit. It would be financially ruinous for Scotland, and it's not like Scotland is a net contributor financially to the rest of the UK (which the UK was to the EU) - why would the remains of the UK give Scotland a good deal?
Ultimately Scotland has only one bargaining chip - Coulport and Faslane.

But its not a very powerful bargaining chip in the grand scheme of things, it would only cost a few billion to relocate in all likelihood.
 

Journeyman

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2014
Messages
6,295
Ultimately Scotland has only one bargaining chip - Coulport and Faslane.

But its not a very powerful bargaining chip in the grand scheme of things, it would only cost a few billion to relocate in all likelihood.
Talk to anyone who lives in Helensburgh, and you'll find they have a connection with the base somehow. Relocating it would cause economic devastation.
 

HSTEd

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Jul 2011
Messages
14,126
Talk to anyone who lives in Helensburgh, and you'll find they have a connection with the base somehow. Relocating it would cause economic devastation.
Well the experience of the Irish treaty ports is that naval bases on foreign soil are only maintainable with the cooperation of the hosting state.
Which means if Scottish independence occurs it is almost certain the bases would have to be evacuated and large parts of them demolished to deny hostile powers the intelligence coup of picking through an intact Trident base.
 

GusB

Established Member
Associate Staff
Buses & Coaches
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
4,188
Location
Elginshire
Well, it didn't take very long before the topic drifted from the "Nicola and Alex Show" to yet another discussion on Scottish Independence; a subject which is off-topic for this particular thread.

I don't think there's any point in keeping this thread, or any other relating to the constitutional affairs of Scotland, open because the usual suspects always end up hijacking the discussion with the same old hysteria.
 

RomeoCharlie71

Established Member
Joined
18 Sep 2017
Messages
1,513
Location
Scotland
The parliamentary committee has come to the conclusion that Nicola Sturgeon did mislead parliament over her role in the Salmond investigation.

A Scottish parliamentary committee has concluded that First Minister Nicola Sturgeon misled parliament.

Sky News understands that Holyrood's harassment committee has reached the conclusion by a majority vote ahead of the publication of its final report.

Members have decided that Ms Sturgeon misled the committee itself and, as such, misled parliament and potentially breached the ministerial code of conduct.

It will significantly increase pressure on Ms Sturgeon to step down. Her opponents have repeatedly levelled the accusation that, in misleading parliament, she breached the ministerial code of conduct.

It dictates that any minister found to knowingly be in breach should offer their resignation.

Sky News understands that the word "knowingly" was not included in the text agreed by the committee.

Its members decided by a majority that it was misled by evidence submitted to them by the first minister.

She appeared before them earlier this month to give oral evidence and, before that, made a written submission in which she insisted she had not offered to intervene in a Scottish government investigation into harassment complaints made against her predecessor, Alex Salmond.

However, Mr Salmond insisted that she had made such an offer during a meeting at her house on 2 April 2018.

Mr Salmond's account was confirmed by Duncan Hamilton QC, his legal adviser, who was present at the meeting and wrote to the committee that Ms Sturgeon had said: "If it comes to it, I will intervene."

The committee's finding, passed by a majority, reads:

"The committee notes there is a fundamental contradiction in the evidence in relation to whether, at the meeting on the 2nd April 2018, the First Minister did or did not agree to intervene.

"Taking account of the competing versions of the event, the committee believes that she did in fact leave Alex Salmond with the impression that she would, if necessary, intervene.

"This is corroborated by Duncan Hamilton, who was also at the meeting. Her written evidence is, therefore, an inaccurate account of what happened and she has misled the committee on this matter.

"This is a potential breach of the ministerial code under the terms of section 1.3 (c)."

Holyrood's harassment committee, comprising of four SNP MSPs and five members of the opposition, is due to publish its findings, in full, early next week.

Their inquiry has been looking into the Scottish government's mishandling of a 2018 investigation of harassment complaints against Mr Salmond.

He challenged its legality and a court ruled that it was "unlawful" and "tainted by apparent bias". Mr Salmond was subsequently acquitted of sexual assault charges at a criminal trial in March 2020.

The remit of the Holyrood committee has been to consider and report on the actions of the first minister, Scottish government officials, and special advisers.

It has examined the development of the government's policy regarding harassment, events surrounding Mr Salmond's judicial review and the handling of complaints, as well as matters concerning the ministerial code.

Ms Sturgeon is facing a separate inquiry into whether she breached the ministerial code.

James Hamilton, Ireland's former director of public prosecutions, is due to publish the findings of his investigation in the coming days.

Mr Hamilton is an independent adviser to the Scottish government on the code and has been conducting enquiries following Ms Sturgeon's self-referral amidst questions surrounding what she knew, and when.

The parliamentary committee is split across party lines so this outcome was to be expected; the independent report is expected to be published soon too and if that also shows she broke the ministerial code (and misled parliament), it's time for her to resign.
 

daodao

Established Member
Joined
6 Feb 2016
Messages
2,174
Location
Dunham/Bowdon
The parliamentary committee has come to the conclusion that Nicola Sturgeon did mislead parliament over her role in the Salmond investigation.



The parliamentary committee is split across party lines so this outcome was to be expected; the independent report is expected to be published soon too and if that also shows she broke the ministerial code (and misled parliament), it's time for her to resign.
The best solution to the current Scottish government crisis would be for the new Scottish Labour leader to win the constituency seat he is contesting at the forthcoming Scottish Assembly election. The issue of whether she needs to resign would then be moot. What are the odds on this happening?
 

takno

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
3,984
The best solution to the current Scottish government crisis would be for the new Scottish Labour leader to win the constituency seat he is contesting at the forthcoming Scottish Assembly election. The issue of whether she needs to resign would then be moot. What are the odds on this happening?
That really depends. Is he standing in her seat? Is she not additionally on their regional list? How close was it at the last election, and is it SNP territory pre-2008?

I'm in Scotland and interested in politics. I'm even interested in politics in Scotland to the point of being in a party. I'm finding it increasingly difficult to find a decent trustworthy news source on Scottish politics that I can stand to read though, so keeping up with the soap opera aspects of it all is proving a bit difficult
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top