The Nicola and Alex Show

[Journeyman]

Was bound to fail when the Greens decided to vote for the SNPs. Labour deciding to abstain to avoid being seen as voting against them

The Tories were stupid to go ahead with it, and Labour were sensible not getting involved.

 

[takno]

I see another no confidence vote failed mainly as the spineless labour and tory parties abstained or perhaps they knew if they won they may have to actually do some work and run Scotland or the other nuclear option would have been special advisers and rule from Westminister ?

It was bound to fail and intimately tied to the Conservatives. Whether you agree with the independent report or not, once it came back negative there wasn't a lot of justification for turfing the government out this close to an election anyway. I admire the Conservatives dedication at the moment but it's really all just politics, and it appeals to their base a lot more than it does to the people Labour and the LibDems are trying to take from the SNP

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

The Tories were stupid to go ahead with it, and Labour were sensible not getting involved.

Indeed. It just gave the SNP a free opportunity to plaster "the Scottish Parliament have confidence in the First Minister" posters all over their socials.

 

[Butts]

Indeed. It just gave the SNP a free opportunity to plaster "the Scottish Parliament have confidence in the First Minister" posters all over their socials.

It's so frustrating living in a One Party State

Will Sturgeon go on as long as Fidel Castro and will she start smoking Havana's ?

 

[GusB]

It's so frustrating living in a One Party State

Will Sturgeon go on as long as Fidel Castro and will she start smoking Havana's ?

You're not living in a one-party state, though. You're just living in a place where more people disagree with your views than agree

We're coming up for 11 years of Conservative rule in Westminster, but I don't hear anyone complaining that the UK is a one-party state.

 

[Romsey]

(photo shows a model railway wagon sign written with “Salmond & Sturgeon, A wee bit fishy.”

 

[skyhigh]

And now the news that Salmond has decided to launch his own party - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-56539696

Former SNP leader Alex Salmond has announced the creation of a new pro-independence party which will stand in the Scottish Parliament election.
He said the Alba Party expected to field at least four candidates across every region of the country.
His statement came at the end of a dramatic week at Holyrood.
On Wednesday, Mr Salmond said he would take fresh legal action over the conduct of the Scottish government's top civil servant.
A report by MSPs on Tuesday described the government's handling of harassment complaints against Mr Salmond as "seriously flawed".
The previous day, First Minister Nicola Sturgeon was cleared of breaching the ministerial code over her involvement in the Alex Salmond saga.
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version.

 

[ainsworth74]

We're coming up for 11 years of Conservative rule in Westminster, but I don't hear anyone complaining that the UK is a one-party state.

Oh it's a thought that's been rattling around my head for a while...

And now the news that Salmond has decided to launch his own party - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-56539696

Very dramatic! Though interestingly it appears that their goal is to try and get a "Supermajority" for independence by leaving the constituencies to the SNP and trying to get independence supporters to give them their list votes rather than trying actively compete with the SNP more generally. Indeed they encourage people to vote SNP! From their website:

1. Tip the balance in Scotland’s Favour​

The more success a party has on the constituency vote, the less well it does on the regional list vote. That's why in 2016 #BothVotesSNP led to 1 million wasted pro-independence list votes.

Voting Alba Party on May 6th will make sure no pro-independence vote goes to waste by securing a #Supermajority for independence.

Let’s tip the balance in Scotland’s favour.

2. The mandate to negotiate independence​

The Westminster Government has already said it will not allow another independence referendum in Scotland.

The #Supermajority will be the only mandate needed to begin negotiating Scotland’s independence as a parliament, rather than just a party.

3. It’s time for #BothVotesYES​

#voteALBA on the List​

On May 6th you have two votes. On your constituency ballot paper, #voteSNP for your local SNP candidate. On your regional ballot paper, #voteAlba Party to ensure an independence #Supermajority.

The weight of these two votes combined, will tip the balance in Scotland's favour and guarantee a #Supermajority for independence in the Scottish Parliament this year.

Sign in

www.albaparty.org

 

[GusB]

Very dramatic! Though interestingly it appears that their goal is to try and get a "Supermajority" for independence by leaving the constituencies to the SNP and trying to get independence supporters to give them their list votes rather than trying actively compete with the SNP more generally. Indeed they encourage people to vote SNP! From their website:

The thing is, that the SNP plus Greens were already a majority for independence, and if recent opinion polls are to be believed, this majority was predicted to increase slightly. If Salmond is going ahead with this venture it could potentially split the list vote and have the opposite effect.

I certainly won't be changing the way I vote.

 

[Journeyman]

The thing is, that the SNP plus Greens were already a majority for independence, and if recent opinion polls are to be believed, this majority was predicted to increase slightly. If Salmond is going ahead with this venture it could potentially split the list vote and have the opposite effect.

I certainly won't be changing the way I vote.

I can't imagine the Greens are very happy, as this potentially reduces their chances of success. I'm extremely unhappy as to me it feels like a blatant attempt to game the system, which was supposedly designed not to be manipulated. It reduces yet another election, which should be about a whole range of issues, to being all about independence and nothing else.

 

[GusB]

I can't imagine the Greens are very happy, as this potentially reduces their chances of success. I'm extremely unhappy as to me it feels like a blatant attempt to game the system, which was supposedly designed not to be manipulated. It reduces yet another election, which should be about a whole range of issues, to being all about independence and nothing else.

This is one of the rare times when I find myself agreeing with you! I vote Green on the list because I want to see Green representation in the Scottish Parliament and not just because they're another independence-supporting party. If they end up losing seats because of this, I certainly won't be very happy about it.

 

[21C101]

I like the SNP so much I am overjoyed that there are now two of them to choose between.

 

[Journeyman]

This is one of the rare times when I find myself agreeing with you! I vote Green on the list because I want to see Green representation in the Scottish Parliament and not just because they're another independence-supporting party. If they end up losing seats because of this, I certainly won't be very happy about it.

I like the Greens and voted for them at the general election, but feel unable to do so in the Scottish Parliament because they prop up the SNP seemingly without question.

 

[eoff]

On the other hand George Galloway is proposing tactical voting to stop an SNP majority.

 

[Journeyman]

On the other hand George Galloway is proposing tactical voting to stop an SNP majority.

Can he be taken even remotely seriously? And does tactical voting even work?

 

[eoff]

Can he be taken even remotely seriously? And does tactical voting even work?

I'm sure it has in some circumstances.
I think he is arguing to vote for the most likely to win non-SNP/Green candidate in one vote and for his party in the second vote.

 

[Butts]

You're not living in a one-party state, though. You're just living in a place where more people disagree with your views than agree

We're coming up for 11 years of Conservative rule in Westminster, but I don't hear anyone complaining that the UK is a one-party state.

What about the Havana's ?

 

[yorksrob]

We're coming up for 11 years of Conservative rule in Westminster, but I don't hear anyone complaining that the UK is a one-party state.

Although for the first four years of that, it was a two party Government !

 

[Journeyman]

Although for the first four years of that, it was a two party Government !

Supposedly. The Tories played the Lib Dems like a fine Stradivarius.

 

[yorksrob]

Supposedly. The Tories played the Lib Dems like a fine Stradivarius.

"I agree with Journeyman"

(topical ten years ago)

 

[Journeyman]

"I agree with Journeyman"

(topical ten years ago)

Hahaha! Indeed.

 

[Butts]

Supposedly. The Tories played the Lib Dems like a fine Stradivarius.

Hard to remember now the Lib Dem's actually went down from 60 odd MP's to 50 odd at the 2010 Election did they not ?

What wouldn't they give for half that number now.

Does The Women's Equality Party exist in Scotland ?

Despite an initial (Middle Class Driven ?) fanfare they flopped spectacularly down south. Wonder if the current climate will make any difference with women's concerns over safety to the fore.

Will a non-white female be elected to The Scottish Parliament for the first time this year ?

 

[Journeyman]

Hard to remember now the Lib Dem's actually went down from 60 odd MP's to 50 odd at the 2010 Election did they not ?

What wouldn't they give for half that number now.

Does The Women's Equality Party exist in Scotland ?

Despite an initial (Middle Class Driven ?) fanfare they flopped spectacularly down south. Wonder if the current climate will make any difference with women's concerns over safety to the fore.

Will a non-white female be elected to The Scottish Parliament for the first time this year ?

It certainly seems that a lot of women don't want to be seen supporting Salmond's little vanity project.

 

[Mojo]

Kenny MacAskill MP has switched to the ALBA Party and is now the new party’s sole MP. He only won the seat off of Labour (as the SNP candidate) in the 2019 election, but was previously an MSP again for the SNP.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Speaking as a long, long time SNP member from a long time family of SNP members from the North-East heartlands, I really wish I could give Alec a huge slap right now. And this is speaking as someone who regards him as the architect of the modern SNP, and who has a lot of respect for him for taking the SNP from a very marginal position to an incredibly strong one.

We simply don't need this drama right now. I get it, he's furious with Sturgeon and all the rest of it, but why is he doing it now? Wouldn't it be better to simply shut up, go away and let the SNP do their thing? He still has his supporters in the SNP, and he would be a powerful voice for independence when it comes to galvanising people. Instead, all he's doing is confusing and manipulating the electorate for no real reason whatsoever.

IMO, Salmond's games are going to cost us the majority for independence. The only hope I have right now is that Salmond will take attention away from the Unionist parties, and if the campaign revolves around independence, then the Unionist parties are going to really, really struggle to have anything to say. Labour and the Lib Dems in particular are lost with the independence question, as no-one knows what Labour actually stand for, while the Lib Dems are largely discredited for doing nothing about their proposals for a federal UK.

 

[Journeyman]

Speaking as a long, long time SNP member from a long time family of SNP members from the North-East heartlands, I really wish I could give Alec a huge slap right now. And this is speaking as someone who regards him as the architect of the modern SNP, and who has a lot of respect for him for taking the SNP from a very marginal position to an incredibly strong one.

We simply don't need this drama right now. I get it, he's furious with Sturgeon and all the rest of it, but why is he doing it now? Wouldn't it be better to simply shut up, go away and let the SNP do their thing? He still has his supporters in the SNP, and he would be a powerful voice for independence when it comes to galvanising people. Instead, all he's doing is confusing and manipulating the electorate for no real reason whatsoever.

IMO, Salmond's games are going to cost us the majority for independence. The only hope I have right now is that Salmond will take attention away from the Unionist parties, and if the campaign revolves around independence, then the Unionist parties are going to really, really struggle to have anything to say. Labour and the Lib Dems in particular are lost with the independence question, as no-one knows what Labour actually stand for, while the Lib Dems are largely discredited for doing nothing about their proposals for a federal UK.

As someone who thinks independence would be an unmitigated disaster both sides of the border, and who thinks it's the absolute last thing we should be thinking about right now, I'm actually really pleased that this has shown up many nationalists for what they are - selfish, faction-ridden egotists taking the electorate for granted.

Sarwar has made Labour's position clear going into this election - they oppose another independence referendum. That's good enough for me.

 

[Cloud Strife]

it's the absolute last thing we should be thinking about right now,

On the contrary, I think the whole mess over the last year has shown that the UK needs to be reformed. The Unionists may well have escaped this time from the independence question, but unless we see federalism implemented in a serious way within 5-10 years, the UK is finished as a whole. I still find it strange and surreal that there's such opposition to an English parliament with the same competences as the Scottish one.

Sarwar has made Labour's position clear going into this election - they oppose another independence referendum.

But the rank and file don't oppose it, and this is the reason why Labour are floundering. It would be much better for them to say that they'll support a second referendum, as it would help to lure back some of the electorate from the SNP. As it stands, what distinguishes them from the Tories, really? Even their humming and hawing over the coalition issues in Aberdeen City Council show that they don't really have a clue.

 

[Journeyman]

On the contrary, I think the whole mess over the last year has shown that the UK needs to be reformed. The Unionists may well have escaped this time from the independence question, but unless we see federalism implemented in a serious way within 5-10 years, the UK is finished as a whole. I still find it strange and surreal that there's such opposition to an English parliament with the same competences as the Scottish one.

Well, I agree with you there. "Do nothing" is clearly not an option.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Well, I agree with you there. "Do nothing" is clearly not an option.

I do think that if the Tories got their act together and passed legislation 6 months ago introducing Devo-Max to Scotland (to start with the new Parliament), they would have delivered a hammer blow to the SNP. We saw what happened with The Vow more or less stopping the charge for Yes, and there's no reason why it wouldn't have worked again if there was actual legislation in place.

Instead, all we got was veiled threats from Boris and others to take back power from the Scottish Parliament, getting people's backs up and creating the situation where independence seems like the better option. They didn't have to do this, and it remains a mystery why the Tories wouldn't want to dominate a future English parliament for a generation.

 

[HSTEd]

I do think that if the Tories got their act together and passed legislation 6 months ago introducing Devo-Max to Scotland (to start with the new Parliament), they would have delivered a hammer blow to the SNP. We saw what happened with The Vow more or less stopping the charge for Yes, and there's no reason why it wouldn't have worked again if there was actual legislation in place.

It would have stopped it for a handful of years.
Then the nationalists would have come back and demanded independence anyway - giving extra powers to the Scottish government hasn't stopped the demands for independence so far, why would a handful more powers do it?

Instead, all we got was veiled threats from Boris and others to take back power from the Scottish Parliament, getting people's backs up and creating the situation where independence seems like the better option. They didn't have to do this, and it remains a mystery why the Tories wouldn't want to dominate a future English parliament for a generation.

Because they wouldn't dominate it, it would be politically impossible to insist on FPTP for such a Parliament when none of the other devolved bodies used it.
They would have had to use AMS or STV.

On the contrary, I think the whole mess over the last year has shown that the UK needs to be reformed. The Unionists may well have escaped this time from the independence question, but unless we see federalism implemented in a serious way within 5-10 years, the UK is finished as a whole. I still find it strange and surreal that there's such opposition to an English parliament with the same competences as the Scottish one.

What good would federalism do?

The Scottish Parliament/Government have essentially all the powers they would have under a reasonable federal settlement.

Indeed the recent demands that the UK Government not be permitted to spend money in Scotland without their approval takes us well beyond any federal settlement I am aware of in the entire world.