TPE Nova 3 (Class 68 + Mk5s) updates and withdrawal from service

[43 302]

New dawn on South Pennine prior to some diagrams running to Liverpool from May. Traction training started today, 0Z31 07.09 Longsight to Sheffield.

Seems early to me if they don't start until Dec 2022 timetable change. Or is this normal?

 

[BHXDMT]

Seems early to me if they don't start until Dec 2022 timetable change. Or is this normal?

There are 2 68 diagrams from May and 6 from December so traction training has already started.

I'm not sure whether these light loco runs are for driver route learning, traction training, or both though.

 

[43 302]

There are 2 68 diagrams from May and 6 from December so traction training has already started.

I'm not sure whether these light loco runs are for driver route learning, traction training, or both though.

Thanks. Are those two from May all the way from Liverpool to Cleethorpes?

 

[BHXDMT]

Thanks. Are those two from May all the way from Liverpool to Cleethorpes?

The ones from May will be Cleethorpes to Manchester Piccadilly, December is when Liverpool commences.

 

[Watershed]

There are 2 68 diagrams from May and 6 from December so traction training has already started.

I'm not sure whether these light loco runs are for driver route learning, traction training, or both though.

They're traction training.

 

[CW2]

So is Cleethorpes instead of Saltburn, or as well as Saltburn?
Does this spell and eventual end of 68 operation to Scarborough?

 

[Watershed]

So is Cleethorpes instead of Saltburn, or as well as Saltburn?

As well as Saltburn. There aren't enough (feasible) Cleethorpes diagrams for all 68s to be deployed on that route.

Does this spell and eventual end of 68 operation to Scarborough?

Yes, though not for another year. Once the noise "issue" came to the fore, it was inevitable really. The current arrangements are not sustainable; the fuel range of the 68s (with fuelling solely at Longsight) really limits what can be done.

 

[Freightmaster]

The ones from May will be Cleethorpes to Manchester Piccadilly,

Will there be a newspaper train at 02bungle from MAN?




MARK

 

[CW2]

As well as Saltburn. There aren't enough (feasible) Cleethorpes diagrams for all 68s to be deployed on that route.


Yes, though not for another year. Once the noise "issue" came to the fore, it was inevitable really. The current arrangements are not sustainable; the fuel range of the 68s (with fuelling solely at Longsight) really limits what can be done.

Thanks.
If all this comes to pass, life for a class 68 basher will be very busy indeed.

 

[xotGD]

Hold on. Cleethorpes and Saltburn, but not Scarborough? That's new gen for me. So when does Saltburn start and Scarborough end?

 

[Liverpool 507]

As well as Saltburn. There aren't enough (feasible) Cleethorpes diagrams for all 68s to be deployed on that route.


Yes, though not for another year. Once the noise "issue" came to the fore, it was inevitable really. The current arrangements are not sustainable; the fuel range of the 68s (with fuelling solely at Longsight) really limits what can be done.

Not sure where you got your info from here? 68s will continue to Scarborough.

 

[Fokx]

As well as Saltburn.

Scarborough*
No 68s to Saltburn.

So is Cleethorpes instead of Saltburn.

Yes

 

[43 302]

My understanding was also Scarborough plus Cleethorpes, with Saltburn being 185s.

 

[CW2]

Shame - Cleethorpes had a long history of loco haulage to/from Manchester (including the two newspaper trains at 0120 via Doncaster and 0210 via Lincoln) whereas Saltburn only saw the occasional excursion or charter. So I was hoping for Saltburn.
Mind you, it doesn't do to be too picky! If it comes off, there will still be some decent bashing opportunities.

 

[Watershed]

Scarborough*
No 68s to Saltburn.


Yes

All I can say is, my information comes from a reliable source.

 

[D6130]

The current arrangements are not sustainable; the fuel range of the 68s (with fuelling solely at Longsight) really limits what can be done.

If that's the case, Saltburn is much further from Manchester than either Cleethorpes or Saltburn, so it's a 'no brainer'.

 

[Watershed]

Saltburn is much further from Manchester than either Cleethorpes or Saltburn

Errr...?

 

[D6130]

Saltburn is much further from Manchester than either Cleethorpes or Saltburn,

Errr....I meant Scarborough instead of the second Saltburn! Sorry - been to the pub this evening. Hic!

 

[sjpowermac]

All I can say is, my information comes from a reliable source.

Thank you for the info about Saltburn, there’s certainly a logic to it (I should emphasise that I’m just a nosy trainspotter and don’t have any inside knowledge!).

Regarding the Saltburn route, fuelling could take place overnight at Longsight (or possibly Crofton?) with the sets utilised on overnight services over the Pennines to get them in place for the early morning trains from Saltburn.

Due to manual signalboxes on the Scarborough to York route being closed overnight, the first two services on a morning from Scarborough have to stable there overnight.

On the topic of noise, on some occasions I’ve seen drivers switch off the ETS for about 20 to 25 minutes of the 36 minutes the sets currently layover at York. In this mode the noise from the loco is actually less than that made by a Class 185.

 

[Watershed]

Regarding the Saltburn route, fuelling could take place overnight at Longsight (or possibly Crofton?) with the sets utilised on overnight services over the Pennines to get them in place for the early morning trains from Saltburn.

And indeed that's exactly what happened for a short time (it's also why some of the overnight services have 68-55A timing loads and long reversals).

It still doesn't solve the fuel mileage issue though - if anything, it makes it worse since you are increasing the number of round trips you are doing in a day!

So as you can see, there will have to be fuelling somewhere to the east of the Pennines for the 68s.

 

[D6130]

And indeed that's exactly what happened for a short time (it's also why some of the overnight services have 68-55A timing loads and long reversals).

It still doesn't solve the fuel mileage issue though - if anything, it makes it worse since you are increasing the number of round trips you are doing in a day!

So as you can see, there will have to be fuelling somewhere to the east of the Pennines for the 68s.

York Siemens TPE Depot?

 

[DarloRich]

So as you can see, there will have to be fuelling somewhere to the east of the Pennines for the 68s

Tees Yard or run back to York?

 

[VauxhallNova]

You could use the new depot planned at Dringhouses, as planned through the 2016 franchise win.

 

[sjpowermac]

York Siemens TPE Depot?

The Nova 3 sets have been notably absent from there this year, with crew training for York drivers taking place at Gascoigne Wood…

You could use the new depot planned at Dringhouses, as planned through the 2016 franchise win.

You could try it and perhaps it would be ok for a few months.

Then you would have a small number of local residents complaining, getting egged-on by the local council/free local newspaper and then the depot would be mothballed ‘awaiting further developments’…

Tees Yard or run back to York?

I’m happy to be corrected but I would be very surprised if York were to feature due to the potential for noise complaints from nearby residents.

And indeed that's exactly what happened for a short time (it's also why some of the overnight services have 68-55A timing loads and long reversals).

It still doesn't solve the fuel mileage issue though - if anything, it makes it worse since you are increasing the number of round trips you are doing in a day!

So as you can see, there will have to be fuelling somewhere to the east of the Pennines for the 68s.

It will be interesting to see where the fuelling takes place!

 

[Fokx]

So as you can see, there will have to be fuelling somewhere to the east of the Pennines for the 68s.

Such as Scarborough?

 

[BoroAndy]

Such as Scarborough?

A bit of organising, the locos could refuel at Scarborough overnight then return to the station. The mk5as could remain in depot for cleaning. The noise issue is simple to solve compared to major rail issues

 

[JonathanH]

A bit of organising, the locos could refuel at Scarborough overnight then return to the station. The mk5as could remain in depot for cleaning. The noise issue is simple to solve compared to major rail issues

Perhaps if there was a shunting engine that could take them on and off the depot. A 68 under its own power is not going to be acceptable even without its coaches. Is there any safety case for disconnecting a 68 from its coaches anywhere other than Longsight?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

York Siemens TPE Depot?

Plenty of houses near that depot so probably not a good idea!

 

[sjpowermac]

Perhaps if there was a shunting engine that could take them on and off the depot. A 68 under its own power is not going to be acceptable even without its coaches. Is there any safety case for disconnecting a 68 from its coaches anywhere other than Longsight?

Twice this week there have been Class 68s uncoupled from Mk5a sets in Scarborough station.
Coupling/uncoupling has been discussed previously and brings its own set of problems.

Other issues then arrise such as having someone who is competent to couple and uncouple (TPE Drivers and Guards are not competent) and the need of an additional brake continuity test, all adding time and expense to the situation. Additional train paths etc.

 

[VauxhallNova]

The Nova 3 sets have been notably absent from there this year, with crew training for York drivers taking place at Gascoigne Wood…


You could try it and perhaps it would be ok for a few months.

Then you would have a small number of local residents complaining, getting egged-on by the local council/free local newspaper and then the depot would be mothballed ‘awaiting further developments’…


I’m happy to be corrected but I would be very surprised if York were to feature due to the potential for noise complaints from nearby residents.


It will be interesting to see where the fuelling takes place!

Perhaps if a suitable power supply were to be installed at any of the suggested locations, the diesel locos wouldn't need to run all night.