Train driving suitable for a mum of 2

[Signal_Box]

Hi all, I finally have an interview date with southeastern after 10 months of checking my emails everyday! Anyway now I’m getting cold feet wondering if I can really do it. For context, I am a mum of 2 young kids (1 is in school the other is only 2). My partner is very hands on and works from home in the afternoon so does the school drop offs… in terms of working pattern can anyone let me know what it’s like at southeastern? Would I miss out on loads of my kids?

Get the job, do your training then go part time or accommodated hours that’s the usual pattern for both male, female and non gender defined people/persons do.

Unfortunately, flexibility always results in the people who suffer the effects of true shift work suffer covering the turns that suit the flexible working link.

The flexible working turns are usually jam packed with work to cover the hours you are required to work, so when your AL or whatever the full timers hate covering the job which breads resentment - hidden of course.

This comment will seem very negative, but it is the reality across the industry.

The railway like many many other industries is a 24/7, 365 job it really isn’t compatible with family life - ask any shift worker how many birthdays, events, sport days, parent evenings they’ve missed. This is down to a number of things, short staffing, sickness, part time working, flexi working, lazy staff who knock sick when they can’t be bothered among other things.

Shift working is crap, that’s why we get paid a above average salary so we have to put up with it.

I’ll take my hat off to anyone who works the full shift pattern without the need for flexi and part time working as a matter of course indefinitely.

Go for it. You are entitled to request flexible working accomodation from day one these days, if that would help you with childcare then apply for it. My advice is to join ASLEF from day one and speak to the reps if the shift pattern doesn't work to help you.

You *can* do this and the railway *will* work with you to make your career successful.

To the detriment of others unfortunately who suck up 0200 starts and 0321 finishes across the week.

Someone ALWAYS suffers to allow flexi working.

Being on the railway with kids does allow if anything more time with them id say due to the fact train drivers get more time off work than your average Monday to Friday 9 til 5 job. As long as you are prepared to work all shifts and won't quickly demand a personal link that shafts your colleagues who then get stuck with all the unsociable stuff, then as others have said , give it a try, you won't look back. It's still the best job in the world despite the current industrial unrest.


I agree with most of what you say, BUT , if everyone chooses flexible working, who is left to do the graveyard stuff? And i say this as someone with kids!

You and I, who just get on with it with our families suffering.

My children suffered from being in a shift work single parent family but it was a negative we sucked up and got on with.

There are 2 options available if you get the job….

1, realise that you need to be flexible around the job and you’ll have a great career
2, get the job and be completely inflexible, demand all sorts and play all the cards available!

either way works and I’ve seen both used through the years

Option 2… lose all confidence of your colleagues and seriously rub them up the wrong way - the messroom can be seriously lonely if that happens.

 

[Horizon22]

Well compared to my shifts sometimes I think just knowing what time you’re going to start is a huge advantage rather than on my end being called at 2am in the middle of the night to come in. at that point I start my shift just having a schedule would be nice for me. My shifts are all over the place it’s surprising how I probably get called in at random at least 2 times a week usually being around 2-4am when I’m initially preparing to start at 8am

Overall it depends where you are coming from

The majority of people don’t work shifts. Of the people who do, the vast majority know what shifts they are doing in advance (within reason). Then of that segment, the majority don’t have as extreme shifts as train crew. There is a slight exception of those on relief or GPR type rosters but even then they can only be moved slightly.

My comment was that love it or not, compared to all jobs out there (and indeed most in the railway industry) train crew shifts would be considered some of the most ‘severe’ and the OP has to appreciate that.

I’d be interested in what your role is and what sort of level of advance notice you have to get.

 

[Sonkicks]

The majority of people don’t work shifts. Of the people who do, the vast majority know what shifts they are doing in advance (within reason). Then of that segment, the majority don’t have as extreme shifts as train crew. There is a slight exception of those on relief or GPR type rosters but even then they can only be moved slightly.

My comment was that love it or not, compared to all jobs out there (and indeed most in the railway industry) train crew shifts would be considered some of the most ‘severe’ and the OP has to appreciate that.

I’d be interested in what your role is and what sort of level of advance notice you have to get.

I completely agree it’s for sure not easy but at least you know your shifts in advance that’s a bonus, I’m a maintenance assistant/ engineer working in facilities I usually get called in as we deal with health & social care, health and safety being our main priority and most issues fall under that sector could be anything from a bed being stuck in the air, power failure, plumbing issues or simple things like the internet being down. A lot of the time surprisingly I get called in at 2-4 am and at that point it’s not worth me coming in fixing the issue sometimes as little as 1 hour to then go home for 2-3 hours to come back in

 

[12LDA28C]

I completely agree it’s for sure not easy but at least you know your shifts in advance that’s a bonus

Not entirely true if you are rostered Spare, especially if your Ts & Cs allow a big movement off your spare hours. You could be booked 0600-1430 Spare and plan to pick your kids up from school, then you pick up a running turn 0900-1830 or even a PM book-on if your Ts & Cs allow it. Some rosters have a lot of Spare turns in them...

 

[16.19]

If you’re given the opportunity (and many aren’t) go for it. You’ve nothing to lose but a great amount to gain.

I have 3 young ones and sometimes you miss out on family events but you can always swap with other drivers so you can make important dates.

Shift work can take some getting used to but the job and pension is far worth it, in my honest opinion.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Flexible working is never popular. Especially when it's gone after by people who had kids when they started the job. The messroom response is usually "they knew what the job was when they applied, if they can't work the shifts they shouldn't do it/should be paid less etc"

Reality of it is, if you join then go straight for flexible working (or as everyone else calls it, inflexible working) then you'll be extremley unpopular.

Plus the law only says it has to be considered, not granted.

 

[Samsanbor]

The majority of people don’t work shifts. Of the people who do, the vast majority know what shifts they are doing in advance (within reason). Then of that segment, the majority don’t have as extreme shifts as train crew. There is a slight exception of those on relief or GPR type rosters but even then they can only be moved slightly.

My comment was that love it or not, compared to all jobs out there (and indeed most in the railway industry) train crew shifts would be considered some of the most ‘severe’ and the OP has to appreciate that.

I’d be interested in what your role is and what sort of level of advance notice you have to get.

In my opinion, I believe is the opposite.

In terms of shift patterns and arrangements the railway industry offer amongst the best you can have if compared to other categories of shift workers, otherwise you wouldn't see thousands of applications for every train driver position.

You work a 35h a week on average, most TOC's have a 4 day week rota, mostly with 2 consecutive days off and one detached, 4 or 5 consecutive days off after 3 or 5 weeks (long weekend), still many TOC's have Sundays not included but with a minimum of commitment through the year, decent minimum rest time between shifts.

Let's disregard the salary for now.

Try to ask about shift work experience to:
Aviation workers
Bus drivers
Lorry drivers
Hospitality workers
NHS workers
Police
Firefighters
Carers

 

[baz962]

In my opinion, I believe is the opposite.

In terms of shift patterns and arrangements the railway industry offer amongst the best you can have if compared to other categories of shift workers, otherwise you wouldn't see thousands of applications for every train driver position.

You work a 35h a week on average, most TOC's have a 4 day week rota, mostly with 2 consecutive days off and one detached, 4 or 5 consecutive days off after 3 or 5 weeks (long weekend), still many TOC's have Sundays not included but with a minimum of commitment through the year, decent minimum rest time between shifts.

Let's disregard the salary for now.

Try to ask about shift work experience to:
Aviation workers
Bus drivers
Lorry drivers
Hospitality workers
NHS workers
Police
Firefighters
Carers

Most of those do shifts , but they are usually uniform. Eg . Early 6-2/4/6 or late 2-10/12/02 or night 10-6/4/10 .
Although I did know a 9-5 Monday to Friday fireman. On the railway every shift is different. My week this week is 05.11 , 05.42 , 05.36 , 05.42. Next week I'm 08.40 and then 16.12 the next day. If I'm spare on the roster I don't know my start time until three days before.

 

[Train_manager]

In my opinion, I believe is the opposite.

In terms of shift patterns and arrangements the railway industry offer amongst the best you can have if compared to other categories of shift workers, otherwise you wouldn't see thousands of applications for every train driver position.

You work a 35h a week on average, most TOC's have a 4 day week rota, mostly with 2 consecutive days off and one detached, 4 or 5 consecutive days off after 3 or 5 weeks (long weekend), still many TOC's have Sundays not included but with a minimum of commitment through the year, decent minimum rest time between shifts.

Let's disregard the salary for now.

Try to ask about shift work experience to:
Aviation workers
Bus drivers
Lorry drivers
Hospitality workers
NHS workers
Police
Firefighters
Carers

I've done 2 of those jobs before joining the railway. Most of them are fixed rolling shift patterns and some are the golden 4 on 4 off shift pattern.

The railway is neither and is in a different league.

People don't realize until they join the railway.

 

[Mattydo]

I've worked shifts my whole life. As a driver for only a few years. In terms of planning, shift length, weekly hours and days at work the railway has been superior in almost almost every way. The trouble is the longer you're on the railway the less you know about the "outside" working conditions.

Again whilst there's no guarantee on flexible hours, and I wouldn't take the job dependent on them, the somewhat old fashioned views of other drivers shouldn't put you off applying for Flexi time either. Part time and job share really is the future in almost all industries and the railway needs to get used to that too.

Good luck.

I've done 2 of those jobs before joining the railway. Most of them are fixed rolling shift patterns and some are the golden 4 on 4 off shift pattern.

The railway is neither and is in a different league.

People don't realize until they join the railway.

Ironically the first time I had a 4 on 4 off pattern was my first job on the railway.

 

[Undiscovered]

I've got a 7yr old n two grown up kids.
Been on the railway for 5 yes. It's good, but it's tough, and getting up at 0300 never gets easier.
The job is the job. It's the family life that will get you. 0300 up for 0430 start. Finish 1400, pick up kids on way home. Do homework, etc, have tea and relax. If I'm on the same turn next day, then I'm in bed for 2000, possibly earlier. Have to be really disciplined on that front, so I'm not exhausted for the next day. Rinse, repeat.

Lates, may get into bed at 0200, but I'm up at 0800 to take the lad to school as I'm at work at 1400 and won't see him later. Get home, nap, potter and clean house, prep tea, go to work.

If you're not careful, you can easily end up being in your feet for 18hrs, and then wasting your days off being knackered. You also need to know yourself well- I'm terribly grumpy and short tempered when I'm tired and it's easy to take that out on the kids, or my other half.

 

[westcoaster]

Go for it 100%.

One thing I can't remember see being mentioned is annual leave.

We get 4 weeks rostered leave (they tell you your weeks off ( this does cycle each year, and you can try and swap for school holidays with colleagues)) and 8 ad hoc days free to book as you please.

As a new starter and least senior you are bottom of the pile for leave days (ad -hoc days not rostered leave).

So trying to get leave can be a struggle and sometimes nothing short of impossible.

You can miss key school events like nativity, Easter service, parents evening etc.

 

[baz962]

Go for it 100%.

One thing I can't remember see being mentioned is annual leave.

We get 4 weeks rostered leave (they tell you your weeks off ( this does cycle each year, and you can try and swap for school holidays with colleagues)) and 8 ad hoc days free to book as you please.

As a new starter and least senior you are bottom of the pile for leave days (ad -hoc days not rostered leave).

So trying to get leave can be a struggle and sometimes nothing short of impossible.

You can miss key school events like nativity, Easter service, parents evening etc.

Are you at Southeastern. That's harsh with the ad hoc. At the two tocs I have been/am at seniority doesn't come into it. First names that request it get it , certain number guaranteed. Also to point out OP , it's a great career and at least try it. When you are qualified you can move to other companies if you don't get on somewhere. It might be hard going while you start and while the children are young , but people will help you as it's just one big family and you will be glad you did.

 

[skyhigh]

My kids understood I can't always be there but I watch the 9-5'ers and I shiver at what that life is.

Exactly my view. I spent years working shifts and wondered if maybe 9-5 would actually be better for me. Did it for 4 months while seconded to a training role and couldn't wait to get back to the shift life. I hated it.

 

[Sonkicks]

Exactly my view. I spent years working shifts and wondered if maybe 9-5 would actually be better for me. Did it for 4 months while seconded to a training role and couldn't wait to get back to the shift life. I hated it.

Couldn’t agree more Monday - Friday 9-5 constantly, trying to get appointments for anything is a nightmare even to MOT your car is a pain

 

[Train_manager]

Couldn’t agree more Monday - Friday 9-5 constantly, trying to get appointments for anything is a nightmare even to MOT your car is a pain

And traveling to work at 0800. No thanks

 

[Horizon22]

I've done 2 of those jobs before joining the railway. Most of them are fixed rolling shift patterns and some are the golden 4 on 4 off shift pattern.

The railway is neither and is in a different league.

People don't realize until they join the railway.

Indeed. Whilst those other roles can be difficult with T&Cs worse, the uniformity (which is what I was refering) to is much worse and irregular and as a driver you might start 0347 then the next day 0516 then 0432 (numbers plucked out of thin air) but in other roles you at least know you start at say 0630/0700.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Indeed. Whilst those other roles can be difficult with T&Cs worse, the uniformity (which is what I was refering) to is much worse and irregular and as a driver you might start 0347 then the next day 0516 then 0432 (numbers plucked out of thin air) but in other roles you at least know you start at say 0630/0700.

To be fair, I have been involved with traincrew, as a timekeeper, then as a TCS for well over 30 years, and booking on times, links etc have nearly always from day to day.
The job either suits or it doesn't and I have seen an odd few footplate grade decide to do other things in life - buildsing, driving instructing, legal profession etc.

 

[jettofab]

I agree with most of the comments on flexible working, which is a shame because I do recognise the benefits it brings individually and more broadly on a societal level but to take out the (often few) sociable hours jobs and give them to a small group of people so everyone else exclusively gets the dross isn't a popular thing.

I disagree somewhat with the comments on missing birthdays etc. Yes, you can't do it all but nor can someone in a mon-fri, 9-5 role. If you are flexible and helpful to your colleagues and aren't always looking for one way swaps it's normally pretty easy to sort things out with a combination of swaps and annual leave. Of course there are always some who want to swap rest days but only if they can get a certain job or who never offer swaps in return, and funnily enough they find it harder...

I've not heard of seniority based ad hoc leave before, that sounds pretty rubbish. Christmas is often done via a draw for vacant weeks and/or ad hoc days which is something else the original poster should be aware of.

 

[Stigy]

I’ve worked shifts pretty much all my working life and wouldn’t have it any other way (generally speaking; open to change for career progression). As others have said, train crew shifts are about as extreme as they get, with the most random book on/off times I’ve ever seen though. However, once you get used to it, they’re generally not too bad and per week (where I work at least) the times are roughly all the same five or take maybe an hour or two?

There’s usually the option to swap with someone once you’re established in your role and sign all the routes/traction necessary. I swap to lates with another driver on a week by week basis where I work. We could do it as a permanent swap with rosters, but week by week works, and I don’t mind the odd early when needed.

 

[43066]

There’s usually the option to swap with someone once you’re established in your role and sign all the routes/traction necessary. I swap to lates with another driver on a week by week basis where I work. We could do it as a permanent swap with rosters, but week by week works, and I don’t mind the odd early when needed.

This really is the key to making it work. Albeit it’s a lot easier to do if (like me) you happen to prefer the less popular “all day” type shifts.

Swapping for permanent early-earlies would be a lot more difficult as more seem to want them.

 

[Iamanoob]

Looking at these posts about drivers start/finish times. Are there any passenger trains that run that run 3-4 in the morning or finish late?

 

[Qwerty133]

Indeed. Whilst those other roles can be difficult with T&Cs worse, the uniformity (which is what I was refering) to is much worse and irregular and as a driver you might start 0347 then the next day 0516 then 0432 (numbers plucked out of thin air) but in other roles you at least know you start at say 0630/0700.

Ok, we don’t have the odd minute starts but those of us in hospitality regularly work a pattern along the lines of Late, Early, Early, Late, Early within the same run of shifts so in some ways a run of starts within a couple of hours of each other would seem basically the same shift to many hospitality works.

 

[craigybagel]

Looking at these posts about drivers start/finish times. Are there any passenger trains that run that run 3-4 in the morning or finish late?

Not many, but last trains at night often need taking to a depot, and the first ones in the morning bringing off again. Throw in time to prepare the train for service, the time to get to the depot and the time before all that to do the booking on process and it all adds up.

Most larger depots have night turns as well even though night trains are few and far between - trains still need drivers out side of the hours they're carrying passengers.

 

[43066]

Ok, we don’t have the odd minute starts but those of us in hospitality regularly work a pattern along the lines of Late, Early, Early, Late, Early within the same run of shifts so in some ways a run of starts within a couple of hours of each other would seem basically the same shift to many hospitality works.

Earlies can vary by more than a couple of hours - more like four or five hours (obviously rosters tend to be planned to minimise this). The lack of consistency is also an issue switching between the two: we have points in the roster where you’ll finish Saturday night at 0030, or later during engineering, and be expected back in again 0450 for an early on the Monday! The Sunday is counted as a “day off”.

It’s certainly notable that people who join the railway from other backgrounds, including ex coppers and other shift workers, all observe that railway shifts are far harder than any other industry. And of course, for drivers in particular, the concentration required is the same whatever time of day.

 

[Stigy]

Looking at these posts about drivers start/finish times. Are there any passenger trains that run that run 3-4 in the morning or finish late?

Trains often leave their origins at gone midnight and arrive at the end of the line at home 2am, then need to be put to bed. Some TOCs have drivers working night shifts or shifts akin to night shifts.

 

[12LDA28C]

Looking at these posts about drivers start/finish times. Are there any passenger trains that run that run 3-4 in the morning or finish late?

Not many passenger trains in service but certainly some ECS moves to get from a Depot location to the starting point for a passenger train, yes.

 

[GemGem]

Hi! Driver and mum of 2 smalls here too! Yes it’s hard. I struggle with lates because sometimes I’ll still have to do the school run knackered but I will just go back to bed after. Hard missing things and going to work on weekends and school holidays but that’s the job unfortunately. I do look forward to all the time off with them though and try to swap my rostered leave for holidays. But I love my job!

 

[SteveL9]

Hi! Driver and mum of 2 smalls here too! Yes it’s hard. I struggle with lates because sometimes I’ll still have to do the school run knackered but I will just go back to bed after. Hard missing things and going to work on weekends and school holidays but that’s the job unfortunately. I do look forward to all the time off with them though and try to swap my rostered leave for holidays. But I love my job!

As you’re the perfect person to give a view on this topic - do you (or your partner if you have one) ever regret you going in to the railway and consider switching to a 9-5?

 

[Wyrleybart]

Looking at these posts about drivers start/finish times. Are there any passenger trains that run that run 3-4 in the morning or finish late?

The TOC I work for the last passenger trains end around 0030ish but there are a number of ECS stocks betwen 2300 and 0100ish. Not many drivers who book off after 0200 (when night rate kicks in. There probably 40 odd drivers who book on before 0500 across the country though, the first around 0300 with taxis to depots to bring off ECSs. First passenger trains are around 0500.