We‘re all used toTPE. They‘re supposedly faster than local trains so they charge a whopping great premium.
It is true that one of the first things TPE did, was put up the fares (in line with Government policy) that they set. However it's often possible to get around it, by purchasing tickets to slightly different destinations, where the fare is set by Northern, and finishing "short". In some cases TPE's fare rises appear to have invalidated certain routes, but we know that routes that were valid when the RG first was released are considered to be "protected" and some changes were made unlawfully, without DfT approval. It is legitimate to use those routes, in my opinion, and any dispute could get TPE into hot water.
The DfT chose to make a premium franchise, with higher fares, and I can't see that changing, and the higher fares aren't going to reduce.
We all have our tricks, I am not going to publish them so easily that TPE can attempt to abolish them, but Liverpool to Manchester, York to Manchester, York to Leeds, York to Huddersfield, and so on, all have cheaper options which bring the fares down to a level that is only a little higher than what they should be, rather than the extortionately bloated prices they now are.
It's a game of cat and mouse, and there's only one way to win: don't be the mouse.
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What will happen with TPE anyway?
Will it be merged with Northern or kept separate?
If they merged, it would be far easier for TPE to increase the fares which undercut their high fares.
So my vote is for the status quo to exist, as at least we can get around it at present!
Yes, this is one of the routes where they made the SVR restricted, and introduced a much more expensive SOR.
A classic example is Preston - Manchester Airport, which is also very easy to get around
This fare has increased at an alarming rate, so much so that Northern have introduced their own "via Harrogate" fares. There are at least 2 ways I know of, to get around the extortionate York - Leeds fares.
The PTE fares are obviously not fares they have an influence over.
(if anything, TPE can be cheaper than Northern as they do advance fares whilst Northern generally don't)
Northern now offer Advance fares on selected flows, however I think Yorksrob was comparing walk-up fares.
A journey such as York - Manchester for walk-up travel has more doubled in price for many walk-up passengers in around 10 years. Inflation is nowhere near that bad!
Fortunately there are loopholes and anomalies.
Not sure that "express trains" require them to be fairly empty?
The good news is that most TPE journeys are going to be run by EMUs in a few years time, which will mean longer trains, faster services etc.
Realistically, what else were TPE meant to do, since the engines for 185 coaches couldn't be built any more after the Government's delay and they had to take on the Scottish services (to allow more Cheshire - London services to run). All the fault of the DfT, not TPE
Agreed