RustySpoons
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On the subject of 'could have beens'... Some alternative proposals for the mid life refresh of the 36 Geminis, as well as some ideas for what became the rather short lived Burnley Connect brand.
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Transdev Blazefield
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M803UYA
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It must be the old man in me (and I'm not even 40) but the 'me me me' mentality which comes with social media, twitter especially just grates.
I'm not interested in such things and don't go looking for them. I accept other people are, though, which is up to them.
To be honest, the bus operator that goes out there, quietly, and delivers the services customers want and has happy drivers counts for a lot more than the self congratulatory antics of some of the 'industry's best' in my book. The operator that quietly gets on with it never enters awards, feels no need to be told how wonderful they are by the industry. They just go out and run their services and keep their customers happy.
What really matters is the customer and delivering the service they want. So really hard things like buses turning up when the timetable says it will, ensuring staff turnover is minimal, having buses clean and tidy and in a consistent livery are all the customer wants.
Branding has it's place, especially on corridors and can grow the passenger journeys, but there needs to be buy in at the depot level. That is something Transdev manages to do well, but the predecessor company invented the concept of branding and applied it very successfully to grow the market.
theblackwatch
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Sadly, despite the reductions (which are the second), cancellations are still occurring. I turned up for the 19.40 Harrogate to Knaresborough last night and it failed to run. While the 7/8 to 10 min change may not be noticed greatly, cancellations when services are less frequent certainly are.
The bus operator that runs a good service but doesn't promote itself won't attract new passengers.
That's s fine strategy when people don't have access to a car, but disastrous when they do.
Two 36's running cancelled this morning from Ripon - to be fair they did post the cancellations on social media but not much use if you turn up at Ripon Bus Station to get to work.
That's simply wrong. Most people "buy" a car on a lease deal now. So they have paid their "deposit" which is non-refundable, and they are paying their monthly rental, plus the road tax, insurance, servicing, if they are not included in the deal. They know how many miles they can do under the deal. So why are they going to suddenly use a bus, just because it is well, or cheesily, or naffly marketed? It means that they are paying again for transport and also paying for a car that they are not using. If you have a car then you are going to use it, at least for all your leisure travel
You might choose not to use it to commute, and fewer people commute now, but I don't think that it is marketing that makes that decision for people. Fuel costs, the cost of parking, the availability of parking close to where they work versus the cost of bus travel, the frequency of service and the proximity of the bus stop are they things that might persuade people to use the bus, but not the bus itself, because no matter how fancy the bus and the branding, it's still a bus, shared with other people and all the resulting disadvantages.
The internet is the best marketing tool for bus use. If you decide not to use your car for whatever reason, you will look up the bus service online. It's so easy to do. You can thank bustimes for that, and not any operator. That site is miles better than any operator's timetables. You look at the times, the frequency, the journey time and you decide if it suits you.
If it does, you will give the bus a try, when you don't want to/can't/shouldn't use the car and if the driver gives you hassle about the ticket you want (happened to me yesterday (not on a Transdev bus) and claims it's the incorrect ticket, and he will phone the office, even when he was wrong), or the bus is crowded and you are squashed into the window by the fat man eating some smelly food, listening to the din from the earphones of the person in front, and the schoolchildren rioting at the back, you really won't notice the slick marketing, the sunroofs, the fairylights or the fake wooden floor. You will just vow to never use the bus again.
You might choose not to use it to commute, and fewer people commute now, but I don't think that it is marketing that makes that decision for people. Fuel costs, the cost of parking, the availability of parking close to where they work versus the cost of bus travel, the frequency of service and the proximity of the bus stop are they things that might persuade people to use the bus, but not the bus itself, because no matter how fancy the bus and the branding, it's still a bus, shared with other people and all the resulting disadvantages.
The internet is the best marketing tool for bus use. If you decide not to use your car for whatever reason, you will look up the bus service online. It's so easy to do. You can thank bustimes for that, and not any operator. That site is miles better than any operator's timetables. You look at the times, the frequency, the journey time and you decide if it suits you.
If it does, you will give the bus a try, when you don't want to/can't/shouldn't use the car and if the driver gives you hassle about the ticket you want (happened to me yesterday (not on a Transdev bus) and claims it's the incorrect ticket, and he will phone the office, even when he was wrong), or the bus is crowded and you are squashed into the window by the fat man eating some smelly food, listening to the din from the earphones of the person in front, and the schoolchildren rioting at the back, you really won't notice the slick marketing, the sunroofs, the fairylights or the fake wooden floor. You will just vow to never use the bus again.
RustySpoons
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..but stopped publishing them on Twitter. Suppose it makes it easier to have all the cancellations in one place, but it's an extra step people need to take to find cancellations. And as was the case previously not all cancellations seem to be published.
I'd have thought that by now, especially considering the reduced timetables, that the amount of cancelled journeys would be reduced by quite a lot, but if anything there seems to be more and this is despite all the extra staff that have been taken on. Incidentally the average annual earnings on the recruitment campaign have gone up an extra thousand pounds to £28k now. Only a few months ago it was 'earn up to £21k'
Are other operators still having the same issues with cancellations?
Goldfish62
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Rosso looks to be a bit of a disaster area.
Driving around Saturday and today, I see Transdev have replaced Wizz and Dalesway 66 bus stops in N Yorks with new route branded ones. The ones between Skipton and Steeton were very scruffy before and are far better now. Dont remember what was there before on the Wizz.
Some of the West Yorkshire PTE and Lancashire ones are looking decidedly scruffy now. Not the best advert for the services that serve them.
Some of the West Yorkshire PTE and Lancashire ones are looking decidedly scruffy now. Not the best advert for the services that serve them.
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RustySpoons
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Interesting contrast here from a blog post by friend of the company Roger French.
A dozen best practice initiatives from Transdev Blazefield in Harrogate.
Though with regards to the cancelled journeys appearing on Twitter, they don't anymore and are indeed listed on the website as mentioned in a previous post on here. Not as easy to find, and not as up to date as they should be as there's still missing journeys that aren't publicised. The downside is that the company Twitter feeds now just seem to be endless recruitment campaigns and PR about how good they are.
Single/Return fares are expensive, though the DayTripper tickets do offer quite spectacular value for money depending on the journey you're making, especially if you're in a group.
I personally feel too much praise is given by friends of the company/management which is treated as gospel. You'll never get Stenning publicly complaining about the Burnley Dart with the Burnley Football Club contravision over the windows, nor will he complain about the unbranded B10 with differing shades of white panels. Yet if these vehicles were operating with Arriva he'd be retweeting pictures saying it's disgusting and it's treating passengers like second class citizens or some other over the top remark.
There's a balance. I never understand why someone would want to share their holiday pictures or photos of their friends all looking like they're having a great time on a night out. Just seems like a massive attention grab to show people you're having a good time instead of actually having a good time. Same with the endless positive PR companies put out.
Given the choice between the company that just gets on with it versus the one that's always shouting about how great it is with the sycophants blindly agreeing I'll go with the former, the latter just turns into a circle jerk and the problems and issues just get swept under the carpet.
However in this day and age the company that just gets on with it doesn't move forward. You need the social media presence and you do need to publicly advertise the services you offer. Using the Witch Way as an example. With no promotion it just looks like a bus to the majority. It looks nice, granted, but you'd have no idea of the amazing (fully aware that word gets overused) interior comfort or the features it offers. You'd also have no idea of the fares or special offers. But I do agree that you don't need to see endless posts about it, or that (apparently) 9 in 10 journeys are still operating, or how a bus driver used to work in a petrol station. I'd much rather see accurate and up to date posts about late or missing journeys, something that is still an issue and the reason I've not used the bus for a while now.
TLDR - Transdev are very good, but there are still lots of issues stopping them from being very very good.
A dozen best practice initiatives from Transdev Blazefield in Harrogate.
I can't disagree with what's said, they do a lot of stuff very well. Although at the other end of the scale some of the comments paint a different picture...
Though with regards to the cancelled journeys appearing on Twitter, they don't anymore and are indeed listed on the website as mentioned in a previous post on here. Not as easy to find, and not as up to date as they should be as there's still missing journeys that aren't publicised. The downside is that the company Twitter feeds now just seem to be endless recruitment campaigns and PR about how good they are.
Single/Return fares are expensive, though the DayTripper tickets do offer quite spectacular value for money depending on the journey you're making, especially if you're in a group.
I personally feel too much praise is given by friends of the company/management which is treated as gospel. You'll never get Stenning publicly complaining about the Burnley Dart with the Burnley Football Club contravision over the windows, nor will he complain about the unbranded B10 with differing shades of white panels. Yet if these vehicles were operating with Arriva he'd be retweeting pictures saying it's disgusting and it's treating passengers like second class citizens or some other over the top remark.
There's a balance. I never understand why someone would want to share their holiday pictures or photos of their friends all looking like they're having a great time on a night out. Just seems like a massive attention grab to show people you're having a good time instead of actually having a good time. Same with the endless positive PR companies put out.
Given the choice between the company that just gets on with it versus the one that's always shouting about how great it is with the sycophants blindly agreeing I'll go with the former, the latter just turns into a circle jerk and the problems and issues just get swept under the carpet.
However in this day and age the company that just gets on with it doesn't move forward. You need the social media presence and you do need to publicly advertise the services you offer. Using the Witch Way as an example. With no promotion it just looks like a bus to the majority. It looks nice, granted, but you'd have no idea of the amazing (fully aware that word gets overused) interior comfort or the features it offers. You'd also have no idea of the fares or special offers. But I do agree that you don't need to see endless posts about it, or that (apparently) 9 in 10 journeys are still operating, or how a bus driver used to work in a petrol station. I'd much rather see accurate and up to date posts about late or missing journeys, something that is still an issue and the reason I've not used the bus for a while now.
TLDR - Transdev are very good, but there are still lots of issues stopping them from being very very good.
First Bradford have recently introduced a new batch of double decks, the first for 6 years. I think there was one post announcing it meaning they’ve gone completely under the radar. They also never tweet any service cancellations so nobody knows about them unless they are directly effected. Presumably this is the sort of company quietly getting along with it, that Transdev should aspire to.
The cancellations today include the last two trips in both directions on the 67 between Nelson and Clitheroe, so the last departure from Clitheroe would have been at 16:08 rather than the published 18:33. This should be completely unacceptable for a tendered service paid for by local taxpayers. If this is a common issue (and given the performance across the company as a whole I expect it is) the council need to find another operator pronto.
Listing those tenders on the Rosso page is useless anyway - if the bus is orange and runs in the Burnley and Pendle area why isn't it on the Burnley site?! The average punter is not checking the details of VOSA registrations.
RustySpoons
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From what I've heard it does seem to be a regular occurrence with that journey. It's not as though other services can be used as an alternative due to the villages it serves.
And you raise another issue that comes from having services registered to another subsidiary. An enthusiast may know to look under the Rosso page for a service operating in the Ribble Valley using Ribble branded buses in Burnley colours with absolutely zero branding for Rosso, but how would a passenger?
I'd like to see a return to good old fashioned PR as well as not over the top self promotion online. In the pre Transdev era you'd regularly see a spotless X43 branded Plaxton President or Mainline B10BLE in Burnley town centre on a busy Saturday getting lots of attention from passers by. It still happened up until Covid put a stop to it whenever new vehicles were introduced. I remember the Starship Versas getting a lot of attention when they were launched, as did the Witch Way B9s and even the Burnley Connect Streetlites. The last one I remember was the Mainline Versas, but they were quite unlucky with the weather there... Guess what I'm saying is that this sort of promo shouldn't just be restricted to new vehicle launches. Any big event whether it's a local fair, festival, etc should be a perfect time for a bit of promo.
Yet again I’m puzzled why all these sorts of discussions always end up in this Transdev thread. Discussions about the state of the industry seem to always gravitate here for some reason. It really is quite strange.
You can’t say anything positive online unless every single thing about the service is perfect seems to be the rule, hence Transdev fail this, but First and Arriva don’t, as their service isn’t perfect, and they also never promote anything about their service either.
You can’t say anything positive online unless every single thing about the service is perfect seems to be the rule, hence Transdev fail this, but First and Arriva don’t, as their service isn’t perfect, and they also never promote anything about their service either.
I was slightly surprised by Roger Frenchs article as to some extent it repeated earlier postings by him, re the Electrics in particular. His twitter feed fetaured his visit and on the basis of that I thought an article on the Route1/X1 competition could have been forthcoming. There are some amusing comments on their concerning the standard of branding used by Connexions.
The fact that first two 3's in Harrogate this morning (actually 36s) were cancelled was the subject of a few tweets today on the back of a rewteet by Alex Hornby of a customers praise for Team Pennine. It seems that although those 36s obviously continue to Leeds the 3 section is undertaken by the same driver. Alex offered the complainant a refund of their taxi fare and reacted positively to the suggestion that Route1 workings should have been cancelled instead; that then raises an issue of them often cancelling the once a hour 1D, an extension of the 1C serving a new housing development where its hardly going to attract custom by having a 2 or 3 hour gap in service
The fact that first two 3's in Harrogate this morning (actually 36s) were cancelled was the subject of a few tweets today on the back of a rewteet by Alex Hornby of a customers praise for Team Pennine. It seems that although those 36s obviously continue to Leeds the 3 section is undertaken by the same driver. Alex offered the complainant a refund of their taxi fare and reacted positively to the suggestion that Route1 workings should have been cancelled instead; that then raises an issue of them often cancelling the once a hour 1D, an extension of the 1C serving a new housing development where its hardly going to attract custom by having a 2 or 3 hour gap in service
I do find Roger French (and Ray Stenning as well) a bit biased, seeing things they want to see and ignoring things they don’t want to see.
A recent post where he visited Halifax - A scruffy First Halifax bus was highlighted as hardly being a great advert for the customer, despite the fact that Team Pennine buses in Tiger livery are equally scruffy. The latter could be argued as work in progress and to give them a bit of leeway, but then First Halifax are also introducing a new livery, also noted in the blog, which might be why some buses are overdue a repaint, but no leeway was given here.
A recent post where he visited Halifax - A scruffy First Halifax bus was highlighted as hardly being a great advert for the customer, despite the fact that Team Pennine buses in Tiger livery are equally scruffy. The latter could be argued as work in progress and to give them a bit of leeway, but then First Halifax are also introducing a new livery, also noted in the blog, which might be why some buses are overdue a repaint, but no leeway was given here.
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
I'd say more than a bit.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Indeed - Transdev do the stuff that Roger likes and there's obviously personal friendships.
I guess my puzzlement is that you have some individuals who look to have a pop at Transdev, usually with a reference to #amazing this and that. The gambit really is this... How do you gauge Transdev?
Do you look at the promo activity (and Alex's self promo tweets) and then pick out how the reality doesn't match the promotion? That seems to be the approach of many critics. And to be fair, some of that criticism is warranted - pushing out positive tweets when journeys are being cancelled does display a bit of a tin ear. Likewise, indulging in the competitive behaviour with Team Pennine when they couldn't run their existing registrations.
Conversely, travel on Transdev and then compare to the neighbouring operators - Diamond, First West Yorkshire, Arriva Yorkshire, Connexions. It isn't all fur coat - the operations are generally better. However, having courted publicity, they do attract more scrutiny.
Goldfish62
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I think that's the crux of the matter.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Indeed and that scrutiny seems based on a comparison with the publicity vs. reality and those gaps are seized upon as being not #amazing, rather than benchmarking to neighbouring operators.
peterblue
Member
I think there is also some tension between locals (who use the service daily) and enthusiasts (who are just riding for the sake of it; and can easily plan and have backup options if things go awry). The former group, presumably, must find it irritating seeing endless PR campaigns and publicity retweets on social media but no actual service information or diversion/cancellation updates. The social media teams (and Alex) also have a habit of ignoring criticism and instead retweeting/publicising positive trip reports by one-off visitors.
Of course, they're not perfect and they're faced with the same challenges that all bus companies are facing right now - declining ridership, lack of drivers, etc. But if you would compare Transdev with neighbouring companies, I would say they generally do things a lot better.
Of course, they're not perfect and they're faced with the same challenges that all bus companies are facing right now - declining ridership, lack of drivers, etc. But if you would compare Transdev with neighbouring companies, I would say they generally do things a lot better.
Ashly_Jethro
Member
I agree, they’re not perfect but then again, who is? But as you say, they do a damn sight better than their neighbouring competitors and are evidently trying their best. Not all operators do. Does that make them the best? I guess nobody will truly know, I know others out there him high like they do and preform just as well, but it is know that Blazefield has a long history of leading the industry and still does. Not to say some other operators don’t do certain aspects better cause they may well do. So yes, Transdev certainly has its flaws but nothing really to deserve some of the criticism it receives. At the end of the day they’re doing there best and constantly trying to improve and that’s something worth admiring in my book.
RustySpoons
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The £1 after 7pm flat fare is extended through Spring and Summer.
There are no plans to reintroduce the night-X43 services back from Manchester too, be interesting to see if they'll make a return especially whilst the £1 fare offer is ongoing.
There are no plans to reintroduce the night-X43 services back from Manchester too, be interesting to see if they'll make a return especially whilst the £1 fare offer is ongoing.
Roger French's grandson is (or was) employed in a managerial role at Transdev HQ in Harrogate.
Edit - an online search would show that he has now moved on to a different company which RF knows a lot more about.
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That's a shame. That would have come in very useful tomorrow for a trip I'm no longer taking as Manchester hotels are silly money but a 20 mile taxi ride would have been worth it. A 50 mille taxi ride from Manchester, not so much.
GNERman
Established Member
One that caught me out this morning - from 10th April CityZap Leeds - York has gone hourly, vice the standard half-hourly timetable.
Transdev stating that "many of our routes have shown a good level of recovery since the extended lockdown periods, however the return of customers back to Cityzap has been slower", however they do also state that they hope it's a temporary change.
First bus from Leeds now not until 0820, so no pre-0900 arrival in York anymore unfortunately.
Further details: https://www.transdevbus.co.uk/cityzap/were-making-some-changes-our-timetable-10-april
Transdev stating that "many of our routes have shown a good level of recovery since the extended lockdown periods, however the return of customers back to Cityzap has been slower", however they do also state that they hope it's a temporary change.
First bus from Leeds now not until 0820, so no pre-0900 arrival in York anymore unfortunately.
Further details: https://www.transdevbus.co.uk/cityzap/were-making-some-changes-our-timetable-10-april
Also changes at Harrogate, Blackburn and Rosso including large changes in Rochdale and expanding out to Oldham. Team Pennine's 83, 83A, 84 and 84A will also become the Denby Darts D2 and D3 from the 16th May.
We're making some changes to our timetables
Further temporary changes to our timetables to improve our reliability during the ongoing national shortage of drivers
We're making some changes to improve reliability in Blackburn
Buses will still run as regularly, though travel times have changed to help us improve reliability throughout the journey.
Changes in Rochdale and Bury from 24 April
Following a renewed partnership with Transport for Greater Manchester.
More flights on Denby Darts from 16 May
Denby Darts D2 and D3 will replace the 83, 83A, 84 and 84A buses between Denby Dale and Huddersfield.
RustySpoons
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They said the withdrawal of the late X43s would only be temporary, but accidentally revealed to an enquiry on Twitter that there are no plans to bring them back.
Must say I'm surprised that recovery has been slow for CityZap, especially considering the massive investment it's recently had.