Transport for Wales Class 231 / 756 FLIRTs

[Dan22Edwards]

I believe we had our first breakdown of an in-service 231 today. Incidentally I only know because I had to drive to Cardiff instead! The 11.25 Bargoed to Penarth service had a traction failure and blocked the line for a good while.

Interesting/worrying to see that after years of complaining about the reliability of the 769s and 150s, we're seeing issues with the 231s as soon as two/three are in service simultaneously..

 

[43102EMR]

I believe we had our first breakdown of an in-service 231 today. Incidentally I only know because I had to drive to Cardiff instead! The 11.25 Bargoed to Penarth service had a traction failure and blocked the line for a good while.

Interesting/worrying to see that after years of complaining about the reliability of the 769s and 150s, we're seeing issues with the 231s as soon as two/three are in service simultaneously..

Such is the case with brand new trains - they all have their faults when introduced. Greater Anglia’s were a lot worse back in 2019, now they’re fairly reliable - so will be a matter of time hopefully!

 

[Brissle Girl]

In terms of passenger quality, I had my first trip on one on Friday and I was most impressed by the overall package. One small thing that really stood out was the PIS, though I’m not sure whether it is specific to the Stadler units or will be on all TFW’s new stock?

 

[AdamWW]

I believe we had our first breakdown of an in-service 231 today. Incidentally I only know because I had to drive to Cardiff instead! The 11.25 Bargoed to Penarth service had a traction failure and blocked the line for a good while.

Interesting/worrying to see that after years of complaining about the reliability of the 769s and 150s, we're seeing issues with the 231s as soon as two/three are in service simultaneously..

So far it sounds like an issue and I don't think one can extrapolate much meaningful from a single event.

Not to mention the fact that they have been running several units on a given day for some time now, just with no more than one in passenger service, and an ECS failure would block the line just as well as the failure of one in passenger service.

(And is there a reliability problem with 150's? It generally seems to be 769s that fail and block the line)

Such is the case with brand new trains - they all have their faults when introduced. Greater Anglia’s were a lot worse back in 2019, now they’re fairly reliable - so will be a matter of time hopefully!

I would hope that these would be more realiable from the start as Stadler should have learned from the issues they found in Anglia.

One small thing that really stood out was the PIS, though I’m not sure whether it is specific to the Stadler units or will be on all TFW’s new stock?

Stood out it what way?

In my experience while it looks nice and fancy, it rather falls down on the fundamentals like announcing the correct stations, and even on some occasions having the huge arrow pointing you to the platform side going in the wrong direction. (I once thought I even saw it trying to point both ways at once, but maybe that was my imagination.)

And I don't know if this is design or a bug, but the verbal announcements only seem to give the station names once you're there, rather than beforehand as is customary.

Other than the PIS the trains are really nice though.

 

[43102EMR]

I would hope that these would be more realiable from the start as Stadler should have learned from the issues they found in Anglia.

Makes little difference given every new train has teething problems here and there - the fact this is the first breakdown experienced in the fleet after almost 2 months in service is pretty good considering how bad Anglia’s were and how bad mass designs such as the Aventras seem to be holding up.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Stood out it what way?

In my experience while it looks nice and fancy, it rather falls down on the fundamentals like announcing the correct stations, and even on some occasions having the huge arrow pointing you to the platform side going in the wrong direction. (I once thought I even saw it trying to point both ways at once, but maybe that was my imagination.)

And I don't know if this is design or a bug, but the verbal announcements only seem to give the station names once you're there, rather than beforehand as is customary.

Other than the PIS the trains are really nice though.

I suspect those are teething problems, which weren't apparent on my short journey.

It's much clearer, provides much more information, and is light years ahead of the scrolling single row matrix displays on GWR services. Many continental services have had this type of display and information provided for some time (I first came across them in Zurich in 2009, so they are hardly brand new technology.) Elizabeth Line ones are not dissimilar.

 

[Peter Sarf]

.................................................

Stood out it what way?

In my experience while it looks nice and fancy, it rather falls down on the fundamentals like announcing the correct stations, and even on some occasions having the huge arrow pointing you to the platform side going in the wrong direction. (I once thought I even saw it trying to point both ways at once, but maybe that was my imagination.)

And I don't know if this is design or a bug, but the verbal announcements only seem to give the station names once you're there, rather than beforehand as is customary.

Other than the PIS the trains are really nice though.

I really noticed when arriving at stations that the Passienger Information System was very busy pointing out which side to get out - I can see platforms for myself and most visually impaired people will not see the arrows either !. Also welcoming passengers aboard - do I really need to know it is a Transport For Wales Service ?. I really felt I had missed any announcements for the actual station the doors were about to open at !. Compounded by the lack of a platform mounted station name boards compared to London !.

But overall a good information capability - just needs fine tuning.

 

[Meerkat]

I really noticed when arriving at stations that the Passienger Information System was very busy pointing out which side to get out - I can see platforms for myself and most visually impaired people will not see the arrows either !. Also welcoming passengers aboard - do I really need to know it is a Transport For Wales Service ?. I really felt I had missed any announcements for the actual station the doors were about to open at !. Compounded by the lack of a platform mounted station name boards compared to London !.

But overall a good information capability - just needs fine tuning.

You can see the platform before you get there? Don't know about South Wales but in commuterland we are queue up for the doors in good time before the train gets to the station. If we knew which side the doors were going to open then people with luggage could be in the right place (and those standing in the way with their blooming bikes could get out of the way prior to arrival!)

 

[Peter Sarf]

You can see the platform before you get there? Don't know about South Wales but in commuterland we are queue up for the doors in good time before the train gets to the station. If we knew which side the doors were going to open then people with luggage could be in the right place (and those standing in the way with their blooming bikes could get out of the way prior to arrival!)

As a frequent user I tend to know which side the platform will be. Of course Victoria, like most termini is almost exactly a 50:50 probability (assuming an even number of platforms) !. It is never a really big deal sorting out platform side. Once the train has arrived I think repeating the station name is more important than the obvious location of the platform.

 

[AdamWW]

You can see the platform before you get there? Don't know about South Wales but in commuterland we are queue up for the doors in good time before the train gets to the station. If we knew which side the doors were going to open then people with luggage could be in the right place (and those standing in the way with their blooming bikes could get out of the way prior to arrival!)

All true but I'm pretty sure that the arrows only appear once the train has stopped.

Makes little difference given every new train has teething problems here and there - the fact this is the first breakdown experienced in the fleet after almost 2 months in service is pretty good considering how bad Anglia’s were and how bad mass designs such as the Aventras seem to be holding up.

I would have thought that as well as flaws in individual builds, it's likely that introducing a new train design would likely show up problems common to the entire fleet which are dealt with either by modifications to the trains or how they are used and maintained.

So I would have expected Statdler to have learned from experience in Anglia and for these trains to be much more reliable. Which - as you said - does seem to be the case.

Also welcoming passengers aboard - do I really need to know it is a Transport For Wales Service ?.

I don't think there is any getting away from this sort of thing these days. I just appreciate the brevity of "Welcome to Transport for Wales" rather than "Welcome to this Transport for Wales service".

 

[6Gtraincrew]

Three in service today. 231002, 004 and 008

 

[norbitonflyer]

You can see the platform before you get there? Don't know about South Wales but in commuterland we are queue up for the doors in good time before the train gets to the station. If we knew which side the doors were going to open then people with luggage could be in the right place (and those standing in the way with their blooming bikes could get out of the way prior to arrival!)

There are also places like Finsbury Park and Norwood Junction where there are platforms on both sides but the doors only open on one side. I nearly got overcarried at Finsbury Park because of that - franticaly hitting the "doors open" button on the wrong side!

 

[Jez]

Three in service today. 231002, 004 and 008

Excellent news. Is this the first day more than 1 have been in passenger service? Fingers crossed all the Penarth-Bargoed/Rhymney will be covered by 231s in time for the May TT.

 

[60159]

Excellent news. Is this the first day more than 1 have been in passenger service? Fingers crossed all the Penarth-Bargoed/Rhymney will be covered by 231s in time for the May TT.

Also 3 others out on 3 codes. Driver training?

 

[6Gtraincrew]

Is this the first day more than 1 have been in passenger service?

There have been two in-service previously, but just on Rugby Saturdays.

 

[Peter Sarf]

There have been two in-service previously, but just on Rugby Saturdays.

According to Part Time Spotter today Monday 27/02/2023
In service 231002, 231004 & 231008 (Penarth / Rhymney valley),
Testing/training 231001, 231006 & 231010.
That means more than half the fleet of 11 are in action today. That feels like very positive progress. Particularly a significant number now doing testing/training for such a small fleet. How soon before May ?.

Makes me wonder what 756001 might be doing soon ?.
Obviously waiting for knitting up the valleys !.
Can only guess tested and training on the Cardiff to Newport (and onwards) route in the meantime.

 

[Jez]

There have been two in-service previously, but just on Rugby Saturdays.

Thanks. So looks like good progress is being made.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Hearing that 756103 has left Dollands Moor on its way to Ripple Lane.

Realtime Trains | 6L22 1659 Dollands Moor Sdgs to Ripple Lane Exch Sdgs | 27/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 6L22 1659 departure from Dollands Moor Sdgs to Ripple Lane Exch Sdgs on 27/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Is it 756103 ?.

 

[3973EXL]

Realtime Trains | 5Q99 0502 Ripple Lane Exch Sdgs to Canton Sidings | 28/02/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q99 0502 departure from Ripple Lane Exch Sdgs to Canton Sidings on 28/02/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[william.martin]

What is the difference between the 231 and 756?

 

[Brissle Girl]

756s are tri-mode, whereas 231s are diesel only.

 

[craigybagel]

What is the difference between the 231 and 756?

231s are 90mph diesel only units, 756s are 75mph tri-mode (diesel, electric, battery). Also the 756s have an extra door on each side of the unit.

 

[AdamWW]

231s are 90mph diesel only units, 756s are 75mph tri-mode (diesel, electric, battery). Also the 756s have an extra door on each side of the unit.

And 756's say "Metro" on the side...

 

[Spirit555]

756103, does that mean they are renumbering to avoid clash with 231's as can only find 756's as /0's in books.

Mark

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

756103, does that mean they are renumbering to avoid clash with 231's as can only find 756's as /0's in books.

Mark

No, you’ll often find classes where /0 indicates the 3 car variant and /1 indicates the 4 car variant, like 380, 385 - 756 is the same.

 

[Peter Sarf]

756103, does that mean they are renumbering to avoid clash with 231's as can only find 756's as /0's in books.

Mark

756001 - 756007 three car (+ power pack)
756101 - 756117 four car (+ power pack)

756001 is already in South Wales, now joined by 756103.

EDIT :-
To add nnn/0 does not always mean the same number of cars across different classes. Most common is four car takes the nnn/0 slot as that is (has been) the most common length around London and the home counties. Easier to assume /0 means the shortest and /1 the next length but its not hard and fast.

It is true that some efforts do get made to allow different classes of train to be uniquely identified by their last three digits within certain areas.
An example I have heard are the TfL 378s and 710s. It is true that the only over lap is on the last two digits of 378201-230 and 710101-130. EXCEPT for 378256 & 257 overlap 710256 & 257 !. So it is unwise to read too much into any inferred logic.

The subclass (fourth digit) usually indicates a difference within a class - usually the number of coaches, dual/single voltage (378/1 vs 378/2) or batteries (777/0 vs 777/1).

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Really I reckon the two trains should have separate threads. Once people have got over the novelty of 231s being in service, which won’t be long as they’ve been around for a while and aren’t anything overly remarkable nor running on a route of much notabilty, some will start awaiting alerts from this thread to check for updates of whether or not 756s are closer to service, and receiving alerts purely for more information on what will be standard 231s will become irritating.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Really I reckon the two trains should have separate threads. Once people have got over the novelty of 231s being in service, which won’t be long as they’ve been around for a while and aren’t anything overly remarkable nor running on a route of much notabilty, some will start awaiting alerts from this thread to check for updates of whether or not 756s are closer to service, and receiving alerts purely for more information on what will be standard 231s will become irritating.

I know what yoo mean. Personally I can see a connection because the 756s are likely to follow in the footsteps of the 231s diagram wise with the 231s moving on to the Cheltenham (iirc ?) services. Of course the whole lot is dependant on the pace of Valley line electrification. I think I mean the two classes are not as distinct or easy to separate as in other cases - 197 vs 230 vs 231+756.

 

[AdamWW]

Really I reckon the two trains should have separate threads. Once people have got over the novelty of 231s being in service, which won’t be long as they’ve been around for a while and aren’t anything overly remarkable

That is of course a matter of opinion and personally I consider a modern train in the UK where the windows mostly match up with the seats to be somewhat remarkable in itself, never mind the other novel aspects of these trains.

In other news, 2P47 had some kind of failure this afternoon resulting in it sitting in Queen Street for over 10 minutes, then being terminated at Central. There was no explanation for passengers on board (which, perhaps irrationally, I find very annoying) but as I was sitting behind the cab door it was clear that the problem was with the train, and there seemed to be some difficulty getting into the appropriate cabinet to deal with it.

On the up side, it meant that I happened be in Central to see 66 001 go past towing a 756 towards Canton (which at least at present I can conveniently mention in the same thread).

 

[Bikeman78]

Three in service today. 231002, 004 and 008

Same three in passenger service today. Is it 231003/9/11 that haven't worked yet? I think all the others have.