Trawscymru Service News

[splashoutradio]

Timetables have been published for the revised T3, T3C, T2 & T28 (was X28) routes on the Cyngor Gwynedd Council website.

Amserlenni bws

Amserlenni bws

www.gwynedd.llyw.cymru

The times (especially last services) differ from previously proposed timetables. And from a personal perspective, I'd be interested to see how the new T3/T3C goes.

 

[markymark2000]

--Updated slightly due to new information)

Timetables have been published for the revised T3, T3C, T2 & T28 (was X28) routes on the Cyngor Gwynedd Council website.

Amserlenni bws

Amserlenni bws

www.gwynedd.llyw.cymru

The times (especially last services) differ from previously proposed timetables. And from a personal perspective, I'd be interested to see how the new T3/T3C goes.

T2 yes it may have a nicer timetable but let's not mess around here. You have increased journey times as all buses now plod around Commis Coch and all trips now go via Criccieth (and for some daft reason, they are still sending the bus via Tremadog rather than via Porthmadog Aldi. I presume to keep the train connection that no one actually makes).
Mach-Doll has a later first bus and earlier last bus returning. (According to Lloyds, this is not the case, seemingly a lack of communication somewhere along the line) Bangor has a pretty raw deal out of this too with first and last buses in and out an hour later/earlier respectively.
Sunday's shame to see services from Mach Northbound starting 4 hours later.
Bad news for Morrisons shoppers too as trips to Aberystwyth Morrisons will be gone. Not sure how well used this link is, it does feel a bit like Lloyds had spare time and for trips with a break, it's a better place to give buses a break out of the way.

What I don't get is why ruin the core long distance route sending it around Criccieth and then have the new stupid T22 (which doesn't even seem to be going ahead yet based off the lack of timetable and registration) become the fast bus between Porthmadog and Caernarfon. Penalize longer distance travellers to satisfy shorter distance ones. That's always a good way to win over passengers! Very much like someone has doctored this all in such a way to give the T22 some patronage to save it being the completely stupid idea that it really is. Someone justifying their job or idea.


On the T3,
Mon-Fri is has a reduction of 1 bus from Wrexham and 2 buses per day to Wrexham. Much more frequent on Sundays but on reduced operating hours which isn't very good. First bus from Corwen now 2 hours later and the last bus from Barmouth through to Ruabon 3.5 hours earlier and 50 minutes earlier through to Wrexham! With Sundays being all T3, a few villages will lose their Sundays service, I wonder how this will go down. Not like they use it much but we all know what villages are like with their 'lifeline services'.
Really good to see the reduced journey times though, just a shame Wrexham loses out on some journeys.
It looks like Lloyds Wrexham depot is closing based off the T3 timetable and so hopefully this will put a stop to the antics of diverting off route on Sundays so you can sit on a bus in Doll depot while they fuel the bus.
-New comment given additional information-
Interesing that the T3 will no longer go through Johnstown. I don't think that the usage was too high and there are plenty of alternatives. What doesn't make sense though is the insistence on the T3 going via Wrexham B&Q. This area is frequently congested and from my experience, little used. Why is it not diverted to come off the A494 one junction earlier and then go via Croesnewydd Rd. This would provide a proper bus service for the estates around Croesnewydd Rd but also provide a half decent bus service to Moneypenny which reportedly has 900 staff based out of their Wrexham office. (https://www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/20217470.moneypenny-wrexham-office-pub-gym-treehouse/)

Moneypenny HQ, based in Wrexham is home to around 900 employees and the office is pretty extraordinary.

Mixed bag really, Monday - Saturday core timetable is very poor in my opinion with the reduced operating hours. So much for encouraging people to use public transport eh. Please use buses, but don't use it for commuting to the cities and don't use it for nights out and don't use it for day trips from the cities into the tourist areas. You must stay if you want to make full use of the day, oh and by the way that's now going to cost you more because of the tourist tax. Couldn't make it up.
Sunday's yes some improvements but again, reduced operating times.

 

[WelshBuses93]

Lloyds Coaches Wales | News | Call Us: 01654 702 100

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lloydscoaches.com

Lloyds have announced the timetables on Gwynedd and TrawsCymru website for service T2 are incorrect and some journeys are missing.

Following journeys are as followed..
06:20 and 07:20 Machynlleth to Dolgellau.
07:05 and 08:05 Dolgellau to Aberystwyth.
21:00 and 23:00 Dolgellau to Machynlleth, considering there is already a journey at 21:05 from Dolgellau operating up to Aberystwyth on the new timings.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Bad news for Morrisons shoppers too as trips to Aberystwyth Morrisons will be gone. Not sure how well used this link is, it does feel a bit like Lloyds had spare time and for trips with a break, it's a better place to give buses a break out of the way.

I can't remember if it was T2 vehicles or other services, but I'm pretty sure I've seen Lloyds buses using the petrol station at Aberystwyth Morrisons to refuel in the past.

Mixed bag really, Monday - Saturday core timetable is very poor in my opinion with the reduced operating hours. So much for encouraging people to use public transport eh. Please use buses, but don't use it for commuting to the cities and don't use it for nights out and don't use it for day trips from the cities into the tourist areas.

With Bwcabus going and various bus routes seeing cuts recently (the ones I'm aware of being the 349 Haverfordwest-Neyland-Tenby and 430 Cardigan-Narberth) the current financial suituation for Welsh rural bus services appears to be dire. Against this backdrop it's somewhat surprising that the T1 had such an upgrade in terms of services earlier this year (I've not sampled the new electric buses so not sure if the vehicles are also an upgrade).

 

[markymark2000]

Lloyds Coaches Wales | News | Call Us: 01654 702 100

Lloyds Coaches Wales | Quality Bus & Coach services Wales | Coach Hire Wales | Local Bus Services based in Machynlleth Mid Wales | Call Us: 01654 702 100

lloydscoaches.com

Lloyds have announced the timetables on Gwynedd and TrawsCymru website for service T2 are incorrect and some journeys are missing.

Following journeys are as followed..
06:20 and 07:20 Machynlleth to Dolgellau.
07:05 and 08:05 Dolgellau to Aberystwyth.
21:00 and 23:00 Dolgellau to Machynlleth, considering there is already a journey at 21:05 from Dolgellau operating up to Aberystwyth on the new timings.

Gwynedd timetable looks like the timetable leaflet so does that mean lots of incorrect timetables are about to be printed?

I said it before to TrawsCymru, it's amazing how they have the contract yet have zero clue what buses are running and when. We had a Saga on the T8 when TrawsCymru had to ask Llew Jones what trips they were running so the timetables could be updated. Bunch of incompetents.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I said it before to TrawsCymru, it's amazing how they have the contract yet have zero clue what buses are running and when. We had a Saga on the T8 when TrawsCymru had to ask Llew Jones what trips they were running so the timetables could be updated. Bunch of incompetents.

Is TrawsCymru a QuANGO like TfW or just a brand name? I know there is a 'TrawsCymru Network Manager' (I believe his name is David Hall) but who is his employer?

 

[Dai Corner]

Is TrawsCymru a QuANGO like TfW or just a brand name? I know there is a 'TrawsCymru Network Manager' (I believe his name is David Hall) but who is his employer?

I believe Trawscymru is part of TfW.

 

[burns20]

I've got a few bits to tidy up first then we will publicise the new timings.

X28 and T2 hardly carry between Aberystwyth Bus Station and Morrisons since the opening of Lidl, Tesco and M&S by the Bus Station plus the closure of the Government and Ceredigion Council offices at Canolfan Rheidol.

Standardising the route at Comins avoid confusion with drivers and the public plus increased usage by students at Coleg Ceredigion and the Halls of Residents on the Waunfawr Road

The T2 still serves Tremadog to give access to the footpath to Ysbyty Alltwen Hospital and also Ysgol Eifion in Porthmadog.

The T22 will operate via Garndolbenmaen, Nazareth and Llanllyfni so the T2 will still be faster via Criccieth

Lloyds Wrexham Depot is not closing

I hope this clears some things up

Daniel King
Assistant Operations Manager
Lloyds Coaches

 

[markymark2000]

X28 and T2 hardly carry between Aberystwyth Bus Station and Morrisons since the opening of Lidl, Tesco and M&S by the Bus Station plus the closure of the Government and Ceredigion Council offices at Canolfan Rheidol.

That makes sense. As I say, it did seem like a convenient operational extension rather than one due to heavier patronage. Given the increased facilities now in the town, I think it's a fair cut. Just an inconvenience for anyone with loyalty to Morrisons.

Standardising the route at Comins avoid confusion with drivers and the public plus increased usage by students at Coleg Ceredigion and the Halls of Residents on the Waunfawr Road

So it satisfies a small amount of demand and the large amount of people travelling the longer distances have to suffer. If the T2 gets much slower, it will actually be quicker to get the train from Bangor to Aber than it will be to use the T2! Based off the December timetables, train journey planners are offering me a 4h 12-4h20 journey time, the T2 taking 3h50. So only a 20-30 minute difference between the bus and train. I mean, why not go the whole hog and divert the T2 via Dinas Mawddwy as well, after all, people don't want to actually get where they are going, they want to plod around irrelevant areas all day.

The T2 still serves Tremadog to give access to the footpath to Ysbyty Alltwen Hospital and also Ysgol Eifion in Porthmadog.

But the hospital is a 10 minute walk up hill. Hardly an attractive proposition. Unless Gwynedd are going to actually put kids on the T2 for Ysgol Eifion, that seems like an odd move as well. Gwynedd loves duplicating their school buses over core bus routes and so I am unsure why this could be different? Looking at the information from Gwynedd Council for the existing school routes as well, the T2 doesn't seem to match the school start or finish times. The buses arrive at the school for 08:40ish, the T2 gets in from both directions at 8am, school buses leave at 15.35, the T2 goes through both ways at 4pm.

The T22 will operate via Garndolbenmaen, Nazareth and Llanllyfni so the T2 will still be faster via Criccieth

So either way, passengers who travel in any way between Porthmadog and Caernarfon are now screwed into longer journey times so that the buses can instead plod through areas of almost zero population or areas which have a sufficient bus service already (the Caelloi 3 provides a fantastic service already or is TrawsCymru just yet again competing against a commercial route in a bid to steal passengers and accelerate the downfall of commercial buses in Wales, after all, it's not as if we aren't seeing it enough already with other TrawsCymru routes. Easy way to push franchising, kill the commercial routes.

Lloyds Wrexham Depot is not closing

Unless there are more trips to add to the T3 timetable, I can't see how Wrexham is going to stay open as there is only 1 bus which will start in Wrexham (1 bus starts in Corwen so perhaps could run from Wrexham but not much difference to running it from Doll) and only 1 bus seems to finish close to Wrexham, that being the T3C shorts bus but again, that finishes in Corwen (so wouldn't make much, if any difference running that to Doll rather than Wrexham).

 

[RELL6L]

Some interesting changes here.

The T2 and T3 look great in that they connect at Dolgellau and the times remain pretty fixed throughout the day and therefore much more memorable. The journey time to Wrexham is considerably quicker.

I hope the T3 has sufficient resilience built in to cover delays. It has a quick turnround at Barmouth, much less than before (14 minutes) at Wrexham and then 10 minutes when passing through Dolgellau. It isn't clear whether the journeys terminating at Dolgellau will be the same bus going back, but given that Dolgellau-Barmouth-Wrexham-Barmouth-Dolgellau is too long for a single shift then maybe it will be. I hope the connections work as intended because it looks attractive. I assume there isn't any through traffic from west of Bala to the villages such as Llandrillo and only college traffic from Llanuwchllyn to Dolgellau because these links are lost by the T3/T3C split. Connections from these villages to east of Corwen are maintained, I assume these are more useful. I wonder to what extent double deckers will continue to be used. In theory it is now only 4 buses.

The statement that Wrexham depot is remaining is interesting and authoritative - its always great to hear directly from operators, thank you. Its odd in that a T3 starts there at 06.37 and is probably based there, otherwise it would probably start somewhere further down the route. But the last arrival at Wrexham is at 20.53 and goes back to Dolgellau. There is also the T3C which appears to start at Corwen at 07.15 and finish there at 19.50. The first journey looks like a positioning journey to Llangollen so it could easily have run light from Dolgellau (but not Wrexham). The last journey might then run back to Dolgellau but alternatively it could run to Wrexham. The vehicles swap anyway as the T3/T3C northbound journeys at 15.30ish from Bala swap, the T3C runs through to Wrexham. Could there even be some inter-play with the T12, which has three vehicles visit Wrexham during the day and are there for an hour during which the T3 comes and goes...?

Some other interesting changes in Gwynedd. The Lloyds 38/39 become the G22 with an improved regular hourly service. Why G22? I note some other services are changed to start with a G prefix - could it be for entirely Gwynedd subsidised services? And could the G22 then connect with the T22 when it starts, as well as connecting at Barmouth with the T3? No timetable for the T22 has appeared yet.

Lloyds own website also shows changes to the 28 and X29. Rather concerning is that the 28 timetable also shows journeys on the 30 (between Tywyn and Bryncrug) but the website (and Gwynedd) make no reference to any changes to the 30. But the timings shown on the 28 timetable suggest that the three daytime journeys on the 30 maybe only go as far as Abergynolwyn - at the moment the second and third go to Minffordd - this would be a terrible shame as the section along Tal-y-Llyn is incredibly scenic.

Also winter reductions on the Snowdon Sherpa routes although the S1 continues to be hourly through the day to Bews y Coed, just two fewer journeys. Other services are reduced more with just two round trips between Beddgelert and Pen-y-Pass but at times that make sense for walkers. It all seems reasonably proportionate. The T10 timetable shows extra journeys from the spring between Bangor and Betws y Coed too.

 

[JohnJ]

That makes sense. As I say, it did seem like a convenient operational extension rather than one due to heavier patronage. Given the increased facilities now in the town, I think it's a fair cut. Just an inconvenience for anyone with loyalty to Morrisons.

Also inconvenient for those living north of Aber town centre who need to visit Ystwyth surgery or the Council offices, both on the route from the bus station to Morrisons.

 

[markymark2000]

Could there even be some inter-play with the T12, which has three vehicles visit Wrexham during the day and are there for an hour during which the T3 comes and goes...?

The trips from Lloyds on the T12 are ran by Mach depot and the T3 would be Doll depot and given the T12 is specifically timetabled so that Lloyds buses run to/from Mach and Tanat buses generally to/from Oswestry, I think the potential for mixing the two routes just isn't going to happen and it could make routes very unreliable.

Some other interesting changes in Gwynedd. The Lloyds 38/39 become the G22 with an improved regular hourly service. Why G22? I note some other services are changed to start with a G prefix - could it be for entirely Gwynedd subsidised services? And could the G22 then connect with the T22 when it starts, as well as connecting at Barmouth with the T3? No timetable for the T22 has appeared yet.

Shame that the G22 timetable is entirely in Welsh. Why not in English as well? Given English is the majority language in Wales, to exclude English is just a joke. (For the record

No timetable for the T22 as it's seemingly been delayed with Llew Jones taking on the 3B instead of the T22 for now.

Lloyds own website also shows changes to the 28 and X29. Rather concerning is that the 28 timetable also shows journeys on the 30 (between Tywyn and Bryncrug) but the website (and Gwynedd) make no reference to any changes to the 30. But the timings shown on the 28 timetable suggest that the three daytime journeys on the 30 maybe only go as far as Abergynolwyn - at the moment the second and third go to Minffordd - this would be a terrible shame as the section along Tal-y-Llyn is incredibly scenic.

I think the 30 is included on the 28 timetable to give a fuller picture on the services available so as to help passengers. If you go to the 30 timetable, you can see the through journeys. I'd be interested to see about the 14:47 school journey from Tywyn as this bus is advertised as running through to Aberlefenni yet the tracking consistently shows that the bus turns around at Abergynolwyn and does the 15:05 journey with no service tracking between Abergynolwyn and Aberlefenni. Timetable completely different to how the service is actually operated.

 

[RELL6L]

The trips from Lloyds on the T12 are ran by Mach depot and the T3 would be Doll depot and given the T12 is specifically timetabled so that Lloyds buses run to/from Mach and Tanat buses generally to/from Oswestry, I think the potential for mixing the two routes just isn't going to happen and it could make routes very unreliable.

I agree it is highly unlikely, my suggestion was rather tongue in cheek but not impossible.

Shame that the G22 timetable is entirely in Welsh. Why not in English as well? Given English is the majority language in Wales, to exclude English is just a joke. (For the record

No timetable for the T22 as it's seemingly been delayed with Llew Jones taking on the 3B instead of the T22 for now.

On the Gwynedd website the G22 seems to have changed to the G23, agreed it is still in Welsh. Strange!

I think the 30 is included on the 28 timetable to give a fuller picture on the services available so as to help passengers. If you go to the 30 timetable, you can see the through journeys. I'd be interested to see about the 14:47 school journey from Tywyn as this bus is advertised as running through to Aberlefenni yet the tracking consistently shows that the bus turns around at Abergynolwyn and does the 15:05 journey with no service tracking between Abergynolwyn and Aberlefenni. Timetable completely different to how the service is actually operated.

Yes but the timings shown for the 30 are different on the 28 timetable and the 30 timetable. All of the Tywyn-bound 30 journeys show at completely different times.

What used to happen- and I know this because I’ve been on it - is that a 30 ran up from Machynlleth at 14.20 on schooldays via the 34 route to Aberlefenni then to Minffordd and down to Abergynolwyn where it met the other 30, took on a few school children then headed back to Aberlefenni. The first part is not shown on Lloyds timetable for the 30 but is still in the Gwynedd version. I haven’t studied the tracking.

Sorry- I made a pig’s ear of this post using my phone yesterday, no corrected to what I intended!

 

[nwales58]

Pedants'r'us, Cyngor Gwynedd show G23 rather than G22. Best frequency there's been in over 20 years. Whether the timetable survives July/August traffic remains to be seen. Need to check the connections with T3 and whatever finally comes of T22.

 

[RELL6L]

Pedants'r'us, Cyngor Gwynedd show G23 rather than G22. Best frequency there's been in over 20 years. Whether the timetable survives July/August traffic remains to be seen. Need to check the connections with T3 and whatever finally comes of T22.

Indeed. But yesterday it didn't.....!

Connects with the T3 at Barmouth apart from the pm school journeys. T22 - we'll have to wait and see.

 

[burns20]

I think the 30 is included on the 28 timetable to give a fuller picture on the services available so as to help passengers. If you go to the 30 timetable, you can see the through journeys. I'd be interested to see about the 14:47 school journey from Tywyn as this bus is advertised as running through to Aberlefenni yet the tracking consistently shows that the bus turns around at Abergynolwyn and does the 15:05 journey with no service tracking between Abergynolwyn and Aberlefenni. Timetable completely different to how the service is actually operated.

I wanted to divert the T2 via Dinas Mawddwy and the Dyfi Valley as it would serve 7 villages instead of 3 on the current route, it's also a nicer wider road to drive in a bus, it's also the diversionary route for when the Dyfi Bridge floods and with further delays on the new bridge make it permanent. The only issue then was the Dulas Valley communities losing their link to Dolgellau and Aberystwyth.

Buses up Penglais Hill and along the Waun(fawr) are busier than ever after the cuts by Mid Wales Travel with full standing loads at 0830 of students going to the University and Lluest for Coleg Ceredigion, they seem to have given up on Mid Wales Travel 03 University Shuttle/Two Hourly 304 Town Circular.

The 30 at 1447 from Tywyn is two buses, one is a short working to Abergynolwyn that returns as the 1505 from Abergynolwyn to Tywyn, the other continues to Aberlefenni.

From my suggestion to Gwynedd passengers would get confused between G22 and T22 so it was decided to renumber it to G23 as it links the T2 at Porthmadog to the T3 at Abermaw/Barmouth.

The T12 will never interwork with the T3.

In reply to JohnJ the Council Offices and Welsh Government Offices have closed down/been mothballed, we are working with TfW to offer through ticketing on Services T1 and T5 to enable the small amount of trips down to Morrisons to be made.

I hope this has cleared a few things up.

Daniel King
Assistant Operations Manager
Lloyds Coaches

 

[markymark2000]

Yes but the timings shown for the 30 are different on the 28 timetable and the 30 timetable.

They look to match except for the fact on the 28 timetable, times for the 30 don't show the intermediate timing points on the 30.

Buses up Penglais Hill and along the Waun(fawr) are busier than ever after the cuts by Mid Wales Travel with full standing loads at 0830 of students going to the University and Lluest for Coleg Ceredigion, they seem to have given up on Mid Wales Travel 03 University Shuttle/Two Hourly 304 Town Circular.

The solution should therefore be for support to be given to Mid Wales (or other operators in the area) to improve the local service rather than pushing everyone onto the longer distance interurban bus or is this just the 5A scenario all over again. Stick everyone on the T2 and make the journey needlessly longer and uncomfortable for anyone travelling the longer distances. That is definitely the way to go to get normal people onto buses, make their journeys substantially longer. Why has no other company thought about that! God help us if this is the future of buses in Wales.

The 30 at 1447 from Tywyn is two buses, one is a short working to Abergynolwyn that returns as the 1505 from Abergynolwyn to Tywyn, the other continues to Aberlefenni.

The through run never tracks then. Is that trip ran by the handhelds machines?

 

[Dai Corner]

The solution should therefore be for support to be given to Mid Wales (or other operators in the area) to improve the local service rather than pushing everyone onto the longer distance interurban bus or is this just the 5A scenario all over again. Stick everyone on the T2 and make the journey needlessly longer and uncomfortable for anyone travelling the longer distances. That is definitely the way to go to get normal people onto buses, make their journeys substantially longer. Why has no other company thought about that! God help us if this is the future of buses in Wales.

But remember that hardly anyone uses buses unless they have no alternative, they travel for free on concessionary passes or they're enthusiasts.

Why subsidise two buses when one will do?

 

[Rhydgaled]

Stick everyone on the T2 and make the journey needlessly longer and uncomfortable for anyone travelling the longer distances. That is definitely the way to go to get normal people onto buses, make their journeys substantially longer. Why has no other company thought about that! God help us if this is the future of buses in Wales.

Definitely not the only example of this - when Arriva withdrew from Aberystwyth what would become the T5 was diverted via New Quay to replace the Arriva service 50 between Aberystwyth and New Quay (via Synod Inn). Doing so probably made a huge amount of financial sense, but made Cardigan-Aberystwyth journeys significantly longer. More recently, the T5 has had more trips diverted via Aberporth (again the this is the slower route, but unlike the New Quay detour means other villages lose service as a result); I think this may have been to replace the 554 (which provided additional Cardigan-Aberporth journies) but I'm not sure if that was withdrawn or the contract transfered to a different operator (it was previously Richards Bros whose website stated that they would no longer be running the 554 (and a few other services)).

But remember that hardly anyone uses buses unless they have no alternative, they travel for free on concessionary passes or they're enthusiasts.

Why subsidise two buses when one will do?

If all you are trying to do is cater for the people with no alternative then yes - by all means just run one bus. However, we should in my view aspire to modal shift from car to bus, and for that you need a substatially better service. With car parking being very limited at some railway stations (eg. Aberystwyth) there is also an argument for trying to encourage rail passengers to connect by bus rather than driving further due to limited parking at the nearest railhead).

 

[Simon75]

I wanted to divert the T2 via Dinas Mawddwy and the Dyfi Valley as it would serve 7 villages instead of 3 on the current route, it's also a nicer wider road to drive in a bus, it's also the diversionary route for when the Dyfi Bridge floods and with further delays on the new bridge make it permanent. The only issue then was the Dulas Valley communities losing their link to Dolgellau and Aberystwyth.

Buses up Penglais Hill and along the Waun(fawr) are busier than ever after the cuts by Mid Wales Travel with full standing loads at 0830 of students going to the University and Lluest for Coleg Ceredigion, they seem to have given up on Mid Wales Travel 03 University Shuttle/Two Hourly 304 Town Circular.

The 30 at 1447 from Tywyn is two buses, one is a short working to Abergynolwyn that returns as the 1505 from Abergynolwyn to Tywyn, the other continues to Aberlefenni.

From my suggestion to Gwynedd passengers would get confused between G22 and T22 so it was decided to renumber it to G23 as it links the T2 at Porthmadog to the T3 at Abermaw/Barmouth.

The T12 will never interwork with the T3.

In reply to JohnJ the Council Offices and Welsh Government Offices have closed down/been mothballed, we are working with TfW to offer through ticketing on Services T1 and T5 to enable the small amount of trips down to Morrisons to be made.

I hope this has cleared a few things up.

Daniel King
Assistant Operations Manager
Lloyds Coaches

Hi Daniel, would you consider extending the T3 from Wrexham to Nantwich?
I know this has been tried before years ago

 

[nwales58]

T3+G23 connect at Barmouth.
T2 and G23 are 30 minute waits at Porthmadog, although southbound the T2 has a tight connection into southbound trains.
T3 connects into northbound trains at Ruabon, better than currently, but not in the return direction.
At Bangor T2-train connections are still pretty awful unfortunately.

These changes need serious marketing to achieve value for the extra/redirected subsidy - or is the G23 commercial? I hope that is imminent. Lloyds know more about marketing than Gwynedd.

The improved connections between T3 and G23, massively improved frequency on the G23, and hopefully improved T2+T22 frequency if/when that happens need to get through to non-users and occasional users. Different marketing needs to be targetted at holiday makers from Easter onwards.

Otherwise in a year or two's time the value for money will look poor and I fear the frequencies will get trimmed again.

 

[GusB]

T3+G23 connect at Barmouth.
T2 and G23 are 30 minute waits at Porthmadog, although southbound the T2 has a tight connection into southbound trains.
T3 connects into northbound trains at Ruabon, better than currently, but not in the return direction.
At Bangor T2-train connections are still pretty awful unfortunately.

These changes need serious marketing to achieve value for the extra/redirected subsidy - or is the G23 commercial? I hope that is imminent. Lloyds know more about marketing than Gwynedd.

The improved connections between T3 and G23, massively improved frequency on the G23, and hopefully improved T2+T22 frequency if/when that happens need to get through to non-users and occasional users. Different marketing needs to be targetted at holiday makers from Easter onwards.

Otherwise in a year or two's time the value for money will look poor and I fear the frequencies will get trimmed again.

Are these actual changes to services, or what you would like to see?

If it's the latter, you should post your ideas in a new thread. This thread is for discussing what's actually happening.

 

[Statto]

Hi Daniel, would you consider extending the T3 from Wrexham to Nantwich?
I know this has been tried before years ago

Not a chance in hell, their is nothing between Wrexham & Nantwich other than Holt pop 1500, & a couple of tiny hamlets, & Nantwich is not a traffic objective for TrawsCymru either, plus 90% of that route is in England.

Chester is more of a traffic objective for Trawscymru than Nantwich ever will be, & i don't care if the T3 in previous disguises ever went that way either.

 

[RELL6L]

They look to match except for the fact on the 28 timetable, times for the 30 don't show the intermediate timing points on the 30.

Sorry to be pedantic but they don't. The 28 timetable (new) shows 30 journeys from Bryncrug to Tywyn at 8.15, 9.43, 11.43, 13.43, 15.23, 17.03. Actually, from the 30 timetable, they are at 8.15, 9.32, 12.02, 14.02, 15.15, 16.58.

I wanted to divert the T2 via Dinas Mawddwy and the Dyfi Valley as it would serve 7 villages instead of 3 on the current route, it's also a nicer wider road to drive in a bus, it's also the diversionary route for when the Dyfi Bridge floods and with further delays on the new bridge make it permanent. The only issue then was the Dulas Valley communities losing their link to Dolgellau and Aberystwyth.

That would be great, for some journeys at least, apart from a school day run and something on Saturdays the route via Dinas Mawddwy has almost no service.

I think extending the T3 beyond Wrexham to Nantwich would be out of the question. For one thing it is contracted by the Welsh Government, secondly it is too far from base, thirdly there wouldn't be any passengers.

I think the G23 must be Gwynedd contracted. Some other routes around Caernarvon are changing from a C prefix to a G prefix. Why else would it be G? It is interesting that in Gwynedd services seem to be well supported - especially the Snowdon Sherpa but others too - whereas elsewhere we have lost services like the X19 and others.

As for the through bus on the 30 at 14.47, that's interesting. Gwynedd's timetable for the 30 still shows a SD departure from Machynlleth at 14.20 (which I have previously ridden), but Lloyds does not and we have been assured it doesn't run like that. It doesn't seem ever to track. I notice the 533 never tracks either - I hope it does really exist because one day I have a plan to use it!

 

[burns20]

Apologies for the errors on the 28/30 this has just been rectified, the website should update by noon.

The T3 would go to Chester over Nantwich, when the D94/X94 was extended to Crewe it wasn't successful. The X94 under Arriva was extended to Chester for a short time.

The 533 does exist and has a regular driver, Walter

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think extending the T3 beyond Wrexham to Nantwich would be out of the question. For one thing it is contracted by the Welsh Government, secondly it is too far from base, thirdly there wouldn't be any passengers.

Very true - there's a reason why they get one bus a day out to places like Bulkeley

A fourth issue - the A534 is a really awful bit of road. Not great from Wrexham but the bit between the A41 and A49 is appalling.

 

[markymark2000]

Sorry to be pedantic but they don't. The 28 timetable (new) shows 30 journeys from Bryncrug to Tywyn at 8.15, 9.43, 11.43, 13.43, 15.23, 17.03. Actually, from the 30 timetable, they are at 8.15, 9.32, 12.02, 14.02, 15.15, 16.58.

I must have clicked the wrong timetables then as I was say there comparing them and they were the same.

Hi Daniel, would you consider extending the T3 from Wrexham to Nantwich?

Not a chance in hell, their is nothing between Wrexham & Nantwich other than Holt pop 1500, & a couple of tiny hamlets, & Nantwich is not a traffic objective for TrawsCymru either, plus 90% of that route is in England.

When D&G ran the Nantwich - Wrexham, it was once per week on a shopper trip, under contract to Cheshire East (the bus did a different shopper trip each day of the week) and it was actually quite busy taking around 20 odd people per week from Nantwich to Wrexham. All bar one or two people started in Nantwich too and it was timed to be 09:25 departure so all the pass holders had to pay half fare. The only chances of this sort of thing coming back though would be a Reaseheath College operator to give their driver something to do between runs, Anything more than an irregular shopping link is too much. Holt and Farndon have a more than sufficient service already with the Stagecoach 5 and I don't believe that there is any apetite from those areas to travel to Nantwich, only to Chester and Wrexham.

 

[Statto]

Very true - there's a reason why they get one bus a day out to places like Bulkeley

A fourth issue - the A534 is a really awful bit of road. Not great from Wrexham but the bit between the A41 and A49 is appalling.

Indeed, & as i said Chester is more of a traffic objective than Nantwich & Crewe ever will be, if TfW ever decide to extend the T3 beyond Wrexham, i do remember Arriva extending the X94 to Chester a few years back (i might have a timetable for it somewhere) not sure how long it lasted.

 

[nwales58]

For Chester, T8 is Corwen-Ruthin-Mold-Chester and now connects with T3 at Corwen, although connecting with the ultra-frequent 1 that runs through to Chester rail station is more convenient for most.

 

[RELL6L]

Apologies for the errors on the 28/30 this has just been rectified, the website should update by noon.

The T3 would go to Chester over Nantwich, when the D94/X94 was extended to Crewe it wasn't successful. The X94 under Arriva was extended to Chester for a short time.

The 533 does exist and has a regular driver, Walter

The website has indeed been rectified - what a pleasure to deal with someone who actually likes to be advised of errors so they can put them right!
Glad the 533 exists, its a long long way from home but maybe one day I can get to cover some of the links I haven't done, of which this is one.
And the Lloyds website map of North Wales is the best - if not the only - decent one that exists, bang up to date. Thanks for providing this.

Out of interest - and feel free to ignore for other more pressing matters - is the 1Bws ticket valid on all Lloyds services that go to Gwynedd? It says it can be used in Gwynedd and to Aberystwyth on the T2/X28, what about into Machynlleth on the X29 or on the 36 from Machynlleth to Dinas Mawddwy? One would presume not the T12 though as that doesn't go to Gwynedd at all.