We are drifting off-topic somewhat. This thread is for trip reports, not discussing the finer points of Belper bus station.
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Trips by Bus and Coach: Your reports
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I travelled to West Yorkshire this week, ostensibly to travel behind WCRC locomotive 47245 on the Dalesman trip, but my positioning was largely on the roads.
I planned to take the Megabus coach from London Victoria Coach Station at 2330 on Wednesday night. I walked to Redhill, took two trains to Battersea Park and walked to the coach station from there, neatly saving £2.10 on the fare to Victoria. With a bit more time 405 / 75 / 196 via Norwood Junction to Vauxhall or 405 / 50 to Stockwell is possible within the 62 minutes of the Hopper fare but the train is quicker.
On arrival around 2310, no sign of the three Megabus coaches booked out of the high numbered part of the coach station at 2330, and some other late departures apparent, including the M11X to Scotland which was run by a Van Hool Astromega in partial Megabus livery rather than one of the Mcleans VDL single decker vehicles often used - see pictures (not mine) here - which left just before I arrived and the 2230 M11 service via Manchester which is booked for a Megabus Panorama.
There are three 2330 departures now, M10 for Bristol, Cardiff and Swansea, M12 for the M1 corridor, Leeds, Middlesbrough and Newcastle and M15 for Birmingham and Manchester, which are the last departures from that end of the coach station. Unfortunately, the M12 was late arriving so we were moved to stand 5 and told it would be delayed by an hour. Eventually Interdeck YX68UAN arrived. The coach was relatively busy with Wednesday having been the day of the ASLEF strike and some of the passengers Chelsea supporters returning north. I had booked a seat in the second row at the front as these are offered at £1, unlike £3 for the front seats and £2 for the ones behind, but in my opinion, Megabus was better before the seating layout was changed and reservations were introduced. I took this place and departure was eventually at 0045. We picked up at Finchley Road, which seems to be a new innovation, obviously forcing the coach to use the Finchley Road route rather than Edgware Road and were out onto the M1. I think I woke briefly at Leicester and Nottingham but generally slept until I noted I had had a text message from Flixbus cancelling my southbound coach journey from Leeds. I spent some time rebooking from the 2359 departure to the 1600 one. Having left 75 minutes late, arrival at Meadowhall was 25 minutes late at 0445.
Next step was a walk to Cricket Inn Road for some tram rides. I bought a Silver Dayrider and took a few tram rides, first to Spring Road (111), back to Cathedral (110), Nunnery Square (203) and Meadowhall (115).
Then two bus rides, as I needed to get to Wakefield. Timings worked for the X17 to Barnsley and the 59 on to Wakefield.
The X17 is, in theory a long route, but the buses seem to overlap from Matlock to Sheffield and Chesterfield to Barnsley in each half hour, with only a handful of through trips. My bus, the 0714 from Meadowhall, which was Stagecoach Gold ADL Enviro400 MMC SK68LUO was a few minutes down arriving but was soon out onto the M1. Interestingly, this bus runs a reasonable distance on the M1, between the Meadowhall and Birdwell Interchanges then runs into Barnsley via Birdwell and the south western part of Barnsley. After negotiating the contorted access to Barnsley Interchange, we arrived broadly on time. The picture captures a golden glow on the bus before its return journey.
I had half an hour in Barnsley before the 59, so was able to get to Morrisons and back, and see the ongoing development of the town centre following the opening of the Glass Works shopping area.
The 59 links Barnsley and Wakefield each hour, taking a different route to the one traced by the railway between the two places. ADL Enviro400 MMC YX66WCV was the bus for this journey, the side of the bus (not my picture) extoling the virtues of Free WiFi, Free USB charging and E-leather seats, these being the rather garish blue and orange ones which replaced the beachball moquette as Stagecoach standard. Starting west, the bus went first to Monk Bretton, then Carlton and on to Royston before picking up the more direct route at Woolley. Quite a contrast between the locations on the route with the glass factory in Monk Bretton, the Premier Foods factory in Carlton and then some large houses in Notton village further north. One picturesque point from the front of the bus was the lake at Newmillerdam, just to the south of Wakefield.
I rode through to Wakefield's relatively modern bus station, which was a sea of Arriva blue buses, with the Stagecoach vehicle a strange interloper. I walked to Wakefield Kirkgate, then to Westgate and picked up the 47-hauled train to Skipton (obviously not a bus).
Had I not had my day cut short by the need to rearrange the coach back south, I may have done something different in Skipton involving buses, but as it was, I booked the 1359 train back to Leeds, to be formed of 158855 needed for mileage.
The departure point for the Flixbus service in Leeds is in a slightly odd peripheral location at Kirkgate but, Neoplan Tourliner OU22ZXF, operated by Hearn's was there waiting for the 1600 departure when I arrived.
The driver told everyone to ignore the reservations and sit where they like, the seat numbers of the Neoplan not matching to the row / seat numbers of a Levante. (I had had my reservation fee for the night coach refunded but was automatically allocated 1B on the 1600 service.) I took up a seat just over half way back and reclined the seat, the angle of recline somewhat more than offered on a Levante or Megabus Interdeck. No one immediately behind, but the person in front also reclined all the way. The upholstery was a bit odd, being of a cloth / moquette kind but seemingly with some sort of hardwearing thread in the fabric.
Shortly after departure, the driver indicated that we would be heading into a traffic issue on the M1 which would cause an hour's delay. I must have fallen asleep, as when I woke the coach was in standing traffic. We eventually left the motorway at the Dodworth junction and headed down some fairly narrow roads to the Birdwell junction. By the time we were back on the motorway, we were over two hours late, reaching Meadowhall at 1900, rather than 1640. The coach didn't leave Meadowhall full so I ended up with a seat free beside me for the rest of the way to London. (The website had suggested it was full so perhaps some passengers chose not to ride.)
With the driver due to run out of hours before he would make it to London, a swap was made at Watford Gap services, with the drivers swapping cars and coach. Still, 2 hours 20 late from Sheffield was 2 hours late at Finchley Road where I got off the coach at 2155. The coach had seemed quite smooth, arguably a step up on a Levante.
Trains then ensued to get me to East Croydon - Finchley Road & Frognal to Willesden Junction on 378222, Willesden Junction to Queens Park on 378219, Queens Park to Paddington on 3238+3541, Paddington to Farringdon on 345015, Farringdon to London Bridge on 700143 and London Bridge to East Croydon on 171806.
One more bus, although one I nearly missed because of slow running from London Bridge. I shuffled quickly from East Croydon to Park Street and made the 2335 405 departure for Redhill, which was ADL Enviro400H MMC SK70BVJ. This is a regular journey for me but due to an incident on the Brighton Road south of Purley Tesco, the bus made a nifty diversion via Foxley Lane, Smitham Bottom Lane and Smitham Downs Road. This option wasn't available to the HGVs so there was a lorry queue when we rejoined the Brighton Road. Arrival at Monson Road was 0005 and I walked home.
I planned to take the Megabus coach from London Victoria Coach Station at 2330 on Wednesday night. I walked to Redhill, took two trains to Battersea Park and walked to the coach station from there, neatly saving £2.10 on the fare to Victoria. With a bit more time 405 / 75 / 196 via Norwood Junction to Vauxhall or 405 / 50 to Stockwell is possible within the 62 minutes of the Hopper fare but the train is quicker.
On arrival around 2310, no sign of the three Megabus coaches booked out of the high numbered part of the coach station at 2330, and some other late departures apparent, including the M11X to Scotland which was run by a Van Hool Astromega in partial Megabus livery rather than one of the Mcleans VDL single decker vehicles often used - see pictures (not mine) here - which left just before I arrived and the 2230 M11 service via Manchester which is booked for a Megabus Panorama.
There are three 2330 departures now, M10 for Bristol, Cardiff and Swansea, M12 for the M1 corridor, Leeds, Middlesbrough and Newcastle and M15 for Birmingham and Manchester, which are the last departures from that end of the coach station. Unfortunately, the M12 was late arriving so we were moved to stand 5 and told it would be delayed by an hour. Eventually Interdeck YX68UAN arrived. The coach was relatively busy with Wednesday having been the day of the ASLEF strike and some of the passengers Chelsea supporters returning north. I had booked a seat in the second row at the front as these are offered at £1, unlike £3 for the front seats and £2 for the ones behind, but in my opinion, Megabus was better before the seating layout was changed and reservations were introduced. I took this place and departure was eventually at 0045. We picked up at Finchley Road, which seems to be a new innovation, obviously forcing the coach to use the Finchley Road route rather than Edgware Road and were out onto the M1. I think I woke briefly at Leicester and Nottingham but generally slept until I noted I had had a text message from Flixbus cancelling my southbound coach journey from Leeds. I spent some time rebooking from the 2359 departure to the 1600 one. Having left 75 minutes late, arrival at Meadowhall was 25 minutes late at 0445.
Next step was a walk to Cricket Inn Road for some tram rides. I bought a Silver Dayrider and took a few tram rides, first to Spring Road (111), back to Cathedral (110), Nunnery Square (203) and Meadowhall (115).
Then two bus rides, as I needed to get to Wakefield. Timings worked for the X17 to Barnsley and the 59 on to Wakefield.
The X17 is, in theory a long route, but the buses seem to overlap from Matlock to Sheffield and Chesterfield to Barnsley in each half hour, with only a handful of through trips. My bus, the 0714 from Meadowhall, which was Stagecoach Gold ADL Enviro400 MMC SK68LUO was a few minutes down arriving but was soon out onto the M1. Interestingly, this bus runs a reasonable distance on the M1, between the Meadowhall and Birdwell Interchanges then runs into Barnsley via Birdwell and the south western part of Barnsley. After negotiating the contorted access to Barnsley Interchange, we arrived broadly on time. The picture captures a golden glow on the bus before its return journey.
I had half an hour in Barnsley before the 59, so was able to get to Morrisons and back, and see the ongoing development of the town centre following the opening of the Glass Works shopping area.
The 59 links Barnsley and Wakefield each hour, taking a different route to the one traced by the railway between the two places. ADL Enviro400 MMC YX66WCV was the bus for this journey, the side of the bus (not my picture) extoling the virtues of Free WiFi, Free USB charging and E-leather seats, these being the rather garish blue and orange ones which replaced the beachball moquette as Stagecoach standard. Starting west, the bus went first to Monk Bretton, then Carlton and on to Royston before picking up the more direct route at Woolley. Quite a contrast between the locations on the route with the glass factory in Monk Bretton, the Premier Foods factory in Carlton and then some large houses in Notton village further north. One picturesque point from the front of the bus was the lake at Newmillerdam, just to the south of Wakefield.
I rode through to Wakefield's relatively modern bus station, which was a sea of Arriva blue buses, with the Stagecoach vehicle a strange interloper. I walked to Wakefield Kirkgate, then to Westgate and picked up the 47-hauled train to Skipton (obviously not a bus).
Had I not had my day cut short by the need to rearrange the coach back south, I may have done something different in Skipton involving buses, but as it was, I booked the 1359 train back to Leeds, to be formed of 158855 needed for mileage.
The departure point for the Flixbus service in Leeds is in a slightly odd peripheral location at Kirkgate but, Neoplan Tourliner OU22ZXF, operated by Hearn's was there waiting for the 1600 departure when I arrived.
The driver told everyone to ignore the reservations and sit where they like, the seat numbers of the Neoplan not matching to the row / seat numbers of a Levante. (I had had my reservation fee for the night coach refunded but was automatically allocated 1B on the 1600 service.) I took up a seat just over half way back and reclined the seat, the angle of recline somewhat more than offered on a Levante or Megabus Interdeck. No one immediately behind, but the person in front also reclined all the way. The upholstery was a bit odd, being of a cloth / moquette kind but seemingly with some sort of hardwearing thread in the fabric.
Shortly after departure, the driver indicated that we would be heading into a traffic issue on the M1 which would cause an hour's delay. I must have fallen asleep, as when I woke the coach was in standing traffic. We eventually left the motorway at the Dodworth junction and headed down some fairly narrow roads to the Birdwell junction. By the time we were back on the motorway, we were over two hours late, reaching Meadowhall at 1900, rather than 1640. The coach didn't leave Meadowhall full so I ended up with a seat free beside me for the rest of the way to London. (The website had suggested it was full so perhaps some passengers chose not to ride.)
With the driver due to run out of hours before he would make it to London, a swap was made at Watford Gap services, with the drivers swapping cars and coach. Still, 2 hours 20 late from Sheffield was 2 hours late at Finchley Road where I got off the coach at 2155. The coach had seemed quite smooth, arguably a step up on a Levante.
Trains then ensued to get me to East Croydon - Finchley Road & Frognal to Willesden Junction on 378222, Willesden Junction to Queens Park on 378219, Queens Park to Paddington on 3238+3541, Paddington to Farringdon on 345015, Farringdon to London Bridge on 700143 and London Bridge to East Croydon on 171806.
One more bus, although one I nearly missed because of slow running from London Bridge. I shuffled quickly from East Croydon to Park Street and made the 2335 405 departure for Redhill, which was ADL Enviro400H MMC SK70BVJ. This is a regular journey for me but due to an incident on the Brighton Road south of Purley Tesco, the bus made a nifty diversion via Foxley Lane, Smitham Bottom Lane and Smitham Downs Road. This option wasn't available to the HGVs so there was a lorry queue when we rejoined the Brighton Road. Arrival at Monson Road was 0005 and I walked home.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Wow - that's one hell of a day out, albeit a bit extended courtesy of Flixbus.
Barnsley Interchange never looked better
SouthEastBuses
On Moderation
Sorry for the late reply.
22/23 are great scenic routes. Next time you come to Gloucestershire, I recommend riding routes 33, 63 and 66, unmissable scenery! With the 33 going via the lovely Forest of Dean to eventually reach Ross-on-Wye and Hereford, whilst the 63 and 66 going via the beautiful Cotswold hills, and both going to Stroud! You might also want to consider the 351, goes from Gloucester to Tewkesbury via some nice villages and decent scenery, although not as exciting as the 33, 63 and 66.
S2 sure is a great route. Previously, this was numbered 853 and used Scania K230UB ADL Enviro300 single decker buses.
Also, pretty much all Oxford Bus Company buses have no defence screens you talk about.
X51 and X53 sure are great routes to ride. Lyme Regis also is lovely!
Regarding the Axe Valley Mini Travel B9TL, one other interesting thing to note is that it's one of the few independent bus companies in the UK that don't bother converting dual door buses to single door. Another one is Nu Venture in Kent.
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My dad used to work in the blue building where you got the mega bus in Leeds (in the pic)
I am a tad confused. I thought Megabus used the Leeds bus station now. Anyone know the true picture???
Megabus do indeed run from the main road outside the coach station. It is Flixbus who operate from the stop in Kirkgate.
I missed out on the good weather at the start of last week as I was in Spain, but I was able to take advantage of the sunny day (after early mist) yesterday. Due to an evening commitment I could not go far so I took the opportunity to visit an area I had not been to for ages with some topical interest.
So as the sun rose into the mist I was in Sandy, Bedfordshire. I have to be honest I have never liked this part of Bedfordshire on the A1 corridor. Flat, dull countryside, no architectural interest and so many houses built in the unattractive pale yellow from the colour of the local clay. Nothing in Sandy made me change my mind. I was waiting for the 72 to Bedford, this and the 73 provide a half-hourly service from Biggleswade and Sandy to Bedford with the 72 running via Potton, but these services are being completely axed as unsustainable by Stagecoach at the end of the month. I saw a 73 headed to Biggleswade, an against-the-flow journey, this had a fair number of passengers. Mine was a 72 to Bedford due to arrive in Bedford around 8.15, ideal for college students. The bus, an E400, arrived 6 minutes late and started out with a massive tour of the relatively modern estates of Sandy; we had quite a few passengers when I got on and picked up quite a few more round the estates and were 15 minutes late by the time we crossed the queue on the A1 to head towards Bedford. The route is complicated in these estates and buses to Bedford and Biggleswade do not always go in opposite directions due to one-way systems; a 72 headed to Biggleswade loaded up at the same stop as us with a fair queue, this being the school run to Biggleswade (of which more later). We kept picking up odd passengers and had well over 40 on board by the time we got to Bedford, the vast majority college students. We were 20 minutes late by the time arriving at Bedford. Without students there would not have been many passengers but form them this provides a vital service, I cannot accept that this journey is ‘unsustainable’. I note this journey was 4 minutes late on Monday, 20 yesterday and 13 today – are journey times really that variable?
My plan for a snack at Bedford was thwarted by the late arrival of the 72 so I moved straight on to my next journey, the 905 to Cambridge. This is the eastern half of the old Oxford-Cambridge X5 and is now run every half hour, by double deckers, all E400s. Last time I took this from Bedford to St Neots was when the previous coaches were quite new and I thought they seemed quite difficult to manoeuvre around the narrow streets, but I find it very strange that double deckers now rule the roost on both halves of the route. This was much less of a peak journey, leaving Bedford at 8.43. A handful boarded at the bus station and a number more at various points during the journey including St Neots, by which time the sun had come through and the mist lifted. At the moment the route then goes via Camborne, round the top of Cambridge and into the city via the Science Park. I had been to Camborne a few years ago but the development of the town had come on quite a bit since then and it was interesting to see it looked considerably more mature. We picked up quite a few in Camborne and dropped several in the Science Park area. Then we headed into the city via Milton Road, a sea of roadworks, culminating into 4-way traffic lights approaching the city centre. We were OK and actually arrived on time but it was clear that earlier buses had been hugely delayed. Buses running the other way were about 45 minutes late and one missing altogether. I don’t know who “they” are, but why “they” allow these road works to take place on such a busy site, during the day in school term, baffles me. Apart from emergency leaks there should never be road works causing these sort of delays. From the end of October the 905 is to be reduced to hourly between the peaks and rerouted to avoid Camborne and the Science Park, entering Cambridge from the west as it used to be and saving some time. This will be a shame for Camborne which will reduce from five Stagecoach buses per hour into Cambridge to two, all via the Science Park. I can’t say the load on my bus justified a half-hourly service but maybe if it is speeded up it will be more attractive.
I had time for a coffee and bacon roll in Cambridge. On previous visits I have headed into the city centre and tried to find attractive corners to photograph but always end up circling back to Kings College and the obvious picture. This time I didn’t bother and stayed around the bus station as I didn’t have long enough to do more. My next journey was on the 915 to Royston, on a single deck E300, another route being axed by Stagecoach at the end of the month as unsustainable. This seemed to be a different category, I was the only passenger leaving Cambridge Bus Station, one lady joined after a bit but left at Trumpington Park and Ride, one man joined there, a couple more joined at Melbourn and we reached the dizzy heights of four passengers coming into Royston. A reasonably attractive route around some of the villages but clearly not sustainable. Maybe the use of E300s suggests there are passengers in the peak times but this was very quiet. I saw the other two buses on the route, one we met near Trumpington had about six passengers, the other we met in Melbourn had one. I saw my bus a bit later after it had done a grand tour of Royston and it had four on board. I can understand why this will not survive, a token one journey shopping service will cater for the villages and through passengers have the train – unless it is used by significant student numbers at peak times.
I thought Royston was a reasonably attractive town and had half an hour there looking round the narrow and quiet streets of the central area. Then I headed off on Richmond service 91, an E200, through the attractive village of Ashwell, a tour of Baldock and onto Letchworth. There were more passengers on this occasional service with some joining in Ashwell and others in Clothall Common. I had another half hour in Letchworth, the original and really splendid ‘garden city’ with a number of 1930s buildings still looking great plus fountains in the town centre. From here a took an Arriva Pulsar on the 98 to Hitchin station. The bus times just didn’t drop right here so I had to take the train up to Biggleswade, a very short journey.
I had also thought Biggleswade to be another pretty dull town but it was bustling in the early afternoon with many dining outside around the busy market square. I hadn’t been here for a long time, the last time I think I arrived on a Charles Cook Scania Metropolitan from Stevenage! Arriving at 2.30 my plan was to get the Stagecoach 72 to Potton at 3.10 then the Herberts 189 via some villages back to Sandy. But there was no sign of the 72 (which would have arrived as a 73), nor had it run on Monday, so I took the Herberts 189 at 3.15 to tour another set of villages, go through Potton and more villages back to Sandy, very much the ‘scenic’ route. The missing 72 was the return school run from the school in Biggleswade; our bus went to the school too and there was clearly a group of children waiting for that bus, supervised by teachers, which was not going to turn up. In fact the next 72 was cancelled too, although today it is running. Nothing on the Stagecoach East website or Twitter, just a few cancellations from the Fenstanton depot. Absolutely appalling! I did see a 73 leave Biggleswade at 3.07 – I didn’t want to go that way – with a few shoppers on board and another one in Sandy once I had returned there, again with a good number on board. Lots of school children on my bus, it was fairly full leaving the school with passengers dropped off at most of the villages including quite a number in Gamlingay, surprisingly to me as it is in Cambridgeshire while Biggleswade in in Bedfordshire. It was empty then for the last leg into Sandy. I had seen but not stopped in Potton but it didn’t look like I had missed much.
So, on Stagecoach East, I cannot see how the 72/73 are unsustainable given the loads I encountered. Maybe the number of shoppers is down but it cannot help cancelling journeys and giving no notice. I can understand the reduction in the 905 and re-routing, maybe it will attract more passengers, although I think the return of coaches would help here. I quite understand the 915 to Royston being withdrawn on the basis of the loadings I saw.
The good news is that Grant Palmer are replacing the 72 and 73 from 30 October, albeit on a reduced timetable. Their morning student journey is due to arrive in Bedford about the time that I did, but unless it runs on time it is likely to be too late for students. And it can’t run on time, because the traffic simply doesn’t permit it, at least based on my trip. The replacement doesn’t cover Biggleswade to Potton and there clearly is some demand there and the school run back from Biggleswade is not covered at all. I hope they are going to run double deckers because on some journeys they will need them.
I have now reached the grand old age of state pension entitlement so I have a wrinklies pass, which I used for the first time. My first two journeys were too early and I paid but from Cambridge onwards the bus journeys were all free!
Some pictures - some autumn colours but not the most scenic!
The river at Bedford
St Neots
Cambridge
Royston
Ashwell
Letchworth
Letchworth
Letchworth
Biggleswade
Sandy
So as the sun rose into the mist I was in Sandy, Bedfordshire. I have to be honest I have never liked this part of Bedfordshire on the A1 corridor. Flat, dull countryside, no architectural interest and so many houses built in the unattractive pale yellow from the colour of the local clay. Nothing in Sandy made me change my mind. I was waiting for the 72 to Bedford, this and the 73 provide a half-hourly service from Biggleswade and Sandy to Bedford with the 72 running via Potton, but these services are being completely axed as unsustainable by Stagecoach at the end of the month. I saw a 73 headed to Biggleswade, an against-the-flow journey, this had a fair number of passengers. Mine was a 72 to Bedford due to arrive in Bedford around 8.15, ideal for college students. The bus, an E400, arrived 6 minutes late and started out with a massive tour of the relatively modern estates of Sandy; we had quite a few passengers when I got on and picked up quite a few more round the estates and were 15 minutes late by the time we crossed the queue on the A1 to head towards Bedford. The route is complicated in these estates and buses to Bedford and Biggleswade do not always go in opposite directions due to one-way systems; a 72 headed to Biggleswade loaded up at the same stop as us with a fair queue, this being the school run to Biggleswade (of which more later). We kept picking up odd passengers and had well over 40 on board by the time we got to Bedford, the vast majority college students. We were 20 minutes late by the time arriving at Bedford. Without students there would not have been many passengers but form them this provides a vital service, I cannot accept that this journey is ‘unsustainable’. I note this journey was 4 minutes late on Monday, 20 yesterday and 13 today – are journey times really that variable?
My plan for a snack at Bedford was thwarted by the late arrival of the 72 so I moved straight on to my next journey, the 905 to Cambridge. This is the eastern half of the old Oxford-Cambridge X5 and is now run every half hour, by double deckers, all E400s. Last time I took this from Bedford to St Neots was when the previous coaches were quite new and I thought they seemed quite difficult to manoeuvre around the narrow streets, but I find it very strange that double deckers now rule the roost on both halves of the route. This was much less of a peak journey, leaving Bedford at 8.43. A handful boarded at the bus station and a number more at various points during the journey including St Neots, by which time the sun had come through and the mist lifted. At the moment the route then goes via Camborne, round the top of Cambridge and into the city via the Science Park. I had been to Camborne a few years ago but the development of the town had come on quite a bit since then and it was interesting to see it looked considerably more mature. We picked up quite a few in Camborne and dropped several in the Science Park area. Then we headed into the city via Milton Road, a sea of roadworks, culminating into 4-way traffic lights approaching the city centre. We were OK and actually arrived on time but it was clear that earlier buses had been hugely delayed. Buses running the other way were about 45 minutes late and one missing altogether. I don’t know who “they” are, but why “they” allow these road works to take place on such a busy site, during the day in school term, baffles me. Apart from emergency leaks there should never be road works causing these sort of delays. From the end of October the 905 is to be reduced to hourly between the peaks and rerouted to avoid Camborne and the Science Park, entering Cambridge from the west as it used to be and saving some time. This will be a shame for Camborne which will reduce from five Stagecoach buses per hour into Cambridge to two, all via the Science Park. I can’t say the load on my bus justified a half-hourly service but maybe if it is speeded up it will be more attractive.
I had time for a coffee and bacon roll in Cambridge. On previous visits I have headed into the city centre and tried to find attractive corners to photograph but always end up circling back to Kings College and the obvious picture. This time I didn’t bother and stayed around the bus station as I didn’t have long enough to do more. My next journey was on the 915 to Royston, on a single deck E300, another route being axed by Stagecoach at the end of the month as unsustainable. This seemed to be a different category, I was the only passenger leaving Cambridge Bus Station, one lady joined after a bit but left at Trumpington Park and Ride, one man joined there, a couple more joined at Melbourn and we reached the dizzy heights of four passengers coming into Royston. A reasonably attractive route around some of the villages but clearly not sustainable. Maybe the use of E300s suggests there are passengers in the peak times but this was very quiet. I saw the other two buses on the route, one we met near Trumpington had about six passengers, the other we met in Melbourn had one. I saw my bus a bit later after it had done a grand tour of Royston and it had four on board. I can understand why this will not survive, a token one journey shopping service will cater for the villages and through passengers have the train – unless it is used by significant student numbers at peak times.
I thought Royston was a reasonably attractive town and had half an hour there looking round the narrow and quiet streets of the central area. Then I headed off on Richmond service 91, an E200, through the attractive village of Ashwell, a tour of Baldock and onto Letchworth. There were more passengers on this occasional service with some joining in Ashwell and others in Clothall Common. I had another half hour in Letchworth, the original and really splendid ‘garden city’ with a number of 1930s buildings still looking great plus fountains in the town centre. From here a took an Arriva Pulsar on the 98 to Hitchin station. The bus times just didn’t drop right here so I had to take the train up to Biggleswade, a very short journey.
I had also thought Biggleswade to be another pretty dull town but it was bustling in the early afternoon with many dining outside around the busy market square. I hadn’t been here for a long time, the last time I think I arrived on a Charles Cook Scania Metropolitan from Stevenage! Arriving at 2.30 my plan was to get the Stagecoach 72 to Potton at 3.10 then the Herberts 189 via some villages back to Sandy. But there was no sign of the 72 (which would have arrived as a 73), nor had it run on Monday, so I took the Herberts 189 at 3.15 to tour another set of villages, go through Potton and more villages back to Sandy, very much the ‘scenic’ route. The missing 72 was the return school run from the school in Biggleswade; our bus went to the school too and there was clearly a group of children waiting for that bus, supervised by teachers, which was not going to turn up. In fact the next 72 was cancelled too, although today it is running. Nothing on the Stagecoach East website or Twitter, just a few cancellations from the Fenstanton depot. Absolutely appalling! I did see a 73 leave Biggleswade at 3.07 – I didn’t want to go that way – with a few shoppers on board and another one in Sandy once I had returned there, again with a good number on board. Lots of school children on my bus, it was fairly full leaving the school with passengers dropped off at most of the villages including quite a number in Gamlingay, surprisingly to me as it is in Cambridgeshire while Biggleswade in in Bedfordshire. It was empty then for the last leg into Sandy. I had seen but not stopped in Potton but it didn’t look like I had missed much.
So, on Stagecoach East, I cannot see how the 72/73 are unsustainable given the loads I encountered. Maybe the number of shoppers is down but it cannot help cancelling journeys and giving no notice. I can understand the reduction in the 905 and re-routing, maybe it will attract more passengers, although I think the return of coaches would help here. I quite understand the 915 to Royston being withdrawn on the basis of the loadings I saw.
The good news is that Grant Palmer are replacing the 72 and 73 from 30 October, albeit on a reduced timetable. Their morning student journey is due to arrive in Bedford about the time that I did, but unless it runs on time it is likely to be too late for students. And it can’t run on time, because the traffic simply doesn’t permit it, at least based on my trip. The replacement doesn’t cover Biggleswade to Potton and there clearly is some demand there and the school run back from Biggleswade is not covered at all. I hope they are going to run double deckers because on some journeys they will need them.
I have now reached the grand old age of state pension entitlement so I have a wrinklies pass, which I used for the first time. My first two journeys were too early and I paid but from Cambridge onwards the bus journeys were all free!
Some pictures - some autumn colours but not the most scenic!
The river at Bedford
St Neots
Cambridge
Royston
Ashwell
Letchworth
Letchworth
Letchworth
Biggleswade
Sandy
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Great report and photos as usual @RELL6L
It's not an area I know that well. I've visited Bedford, Cambridge and St Neots by bus though not the rest of your excursion, passing through places like Biggleswade in the car. I know what you mean about the "scenery" in that part of the world - it really is nothing nor something around Bedford.
Stagecoach East is one of those businesses that seem to have simply lost its way; it felt like that when I travelled on them a few months ago when I've rated them in the past. That there are changes required is undoubtedly the case. I suspect that the issue with the 72/73 is very much the same as the 126 in Somerset, or the 11/12 in Newmarket. There is a market to exploit and they could/do wash their face. However, with pressure on driver numbers, they are simply chopping stuff that comes bottom of the pile.
It's very depressing and sadly, when the Hunt budget cuts come in, we will see more.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Probably one of the last ones now the weather is getting worse and the days are getting shorter. I just about managed to crowbar a trip in on Saturday, in between other commitments. I hope you enjoy the report!
It had been ten years since I'd travelled on buses in the Swansea area, though I've been on First Cymru services in Pembrokeshire, more recently, and around Bridgend and Port Talbot just a few months ago. However, this was a chance to sample an operation that, last time I'd travelled on it, was dominated by ex London Marshall bodied Darts and there's been a lot of change since then.
I began the day at Carmarthen with the X11. This service is one of the Cymru Clipper network and follows a pleasant route to the coast. It is operated by ex Glasgow Airport e200mmcs, which provide some very spacious accommodation being only 35 seaters. They also come with USBs and wifi and very comfortable seating, and are well suited to the route. They are, though, some of the newest vehicles in the fleet at 6 years old! We passed through the substantial village of Kidwelly and its castle that is, to be honest, largely hidden as you travel through. We then hit the coast and a pleasant bit of scenery around Pembrey and Burry Port where we looped around to serve the train station. Loadings were reasonable and we made our way to Llanelli. The town had a grim little, litter-strewn bus station that was buried under the new hotel and leisure development where a new bus station was constructed. The new one isn't brilliant but there's a Costa and a bakery and it's perfectly fine. There is a former First enquiry office that I guess is used by drivers, and this represents a pet hate of mine... There are plenty of these types of premises (and First is a common factor in these) where you have a now-closed office yet it is still in use for drivers. I'm not suggesting that the place should be reopened as a travel office in days of old, but there has to be a better way in which to use the facility to promote your services? An unmanned hub where you can get leaflets (if they're still produced) or even a static display of information - in Llanelli, rather than some graphics from 2016 (they are unchanged since then according to Streetview), what about something that promotes the X11, a map of local services and where they go? It's so frustrating that they could do something more.
My e200mmc from Carmarthen, in Llanelli bus station
Former First depot in Llanelli
Former travel office in Llanelli
It's also really noticeable about how much local services have declined in the area with the routes to Ammanford and Pontarddulais now less than hourly, whilst town routes seem very infrequent. Mind you, that might be a reflection on the decline of the town centre after the creation of the Trostre Park retail development. It is also probably a symptom of the closure of the local First depot that had latterly operated as a sub-depot of Swansea. I wandered round to the old site (vacated nearly two years ago). Still up for sale (apparently under offer) and a real eyesore with all the signage still in situ. This was a historic depot with the tramlines still in evidence even though the former tramshed was removed a few years ago before closure (I think). I guess it will be gone by next time I return. I wandered back, and then to my next bus which was to Gorseinon. This was a town that also once had a depot until the early 1990s, the site of which we passed in 47547, a Streetlite that originated in Bath and used to work some of my local routes. We made our way into Gorseinon and the depressing bus station - nothing much has changed there since 2012! There were a group of feral kids who could've ventured into the adjacent park (that oddly has some sort of stone circle there - big druid population in town?) but instead, two had a playfight in the middle of the bus station until they wisely decided they would be better moving than being mown down by my next bus. There are places that need bus stations; I'm not sure Gorseinon is one. It's a small dormitory town for Swansea and typical of the area - decaying high streets with closed banks and a succession of nail bars and charity shops. For me, the next bus was the 16 to Pontarddulais and another, newer, Streetlite. It's about 3 miles to Pontarddulais but the journey takes about 23 mins as the 16 takes in a lot of the western part of the town, with a lot of battles with badly parked cars and the like. It's a classic interurban bus route that operates in place of a town service (though Gorseinon surprisingly has one, courtesy of Adventure Travel). After many tight squeezes, we arrived at Pontarddulais bus station - it really is just two bus stops by the war memorial! There's not much in the town, other than a few pubs and a motorbike shop so I wasn't hanging around and it was time for another Streetlite... to Swansea. The X13 is another Cymru Clipper route linking Ammanford with Swansea, operating every 20 mins. It seems to be mainly 14 plate Streetlites that are fairly standard albeit in the revised two blue livery. To be honest, it wasn't a bad machine though the journey time of about 40 mins seemed generous (of that, more to come).
Gorseinon
Pontarddulais
Pontarddulais bus station (apparently)
We arrived at the smart bus station in Swansea. There is a bus info point, staffed by a fierce looking woman. Whilst there are digital displays, a simple list of departure bays for each service would also help but I didn't see one. It was a short stop though as I weighed up my options, paying the money for a run to Neath on the TrawsCymru T6. This was a former GHA Metrocity, shown by the embroidered headrests and this is where I have another whinge. TrawsCymru was a long distance bus service network with buses performing the role of local bus as well as longer inter-urban needs. The original Optare Tempos allocated were a good compromise but the vehicles (aside from some B8RLEs of Stagecoach and some e400s in North Wales) are now disappointingly standard; whilst this was an Adventure Travel stand-in, the Metrocity isn't really great for thrashing along on such work and yet it is employed here and elsewhere. Still, we had a well-loaded vehicle (nearly full) and at Neath Station, I alighted to see a load of older ladies being corralled onto the bus to head north towards Brecon by some bloke barely much younger. I wandered across to Neath bus station for my next trip. Neath Bus Station is a place that is reasonably well located yet is very down at heel. First and SWT had put some effort in a few years ago (as had Select) in terms of promotion and the signage is reasonable but perfunctory. Otherwise, it's a miserable place. The only notable thing was a Barbie Solo still running on the Pontrhydyfen service - I thought all those ex Bath ones were gone but 53813 was still going looking very battle-scarred. I was getting the SWT256 to Pontardawe - a route that is shared between First (56) and SWT. I think that's being kind - I think First reduced the frequency and SWT stepped in but someone like @Bristol LH will know better than me. My machine was ironically, a former First London e200. Very shabby affair internally and my fare was much more than the longer TC fare I'd previously paid. A handful of older ladies were returning home from their shopping and by the halfway point, I was the only passenger. Pontardawe was another of those places that used to have a depot until a few years ago; oddly, it survived when NBC-era South Wales closed its Neath Abbey depot (at one time, there were three depots in or near the town).
Former ownership of an Adventure Travel Optare
I remember these when new - it may be withdrawn by now!
It was a short wait for another Cymru Clipper, with the X6 performed by another Streetlite. Despite its relative proximity to Swansea, the journey from Pontardawe is timed for 50 mins! We made our way through Clydach (home once again to a depot that closed in the 1960s) which has a chemical works literally in the town centre! We left there and then the timings slowed and this was a problem on this and the following service. There is an odd bus lane under the M4 at Ynysforgan (you run counter to the other traffic) that then makes you wait to cross the main road to Morriston - rather than a help, it's a hindrance as there's no bus priority. You then trundle through Morriston and then back out but we were stopping constantly to wait time. Timings are clearly aimed at Mon-Fri rush hour not late Sat afternoon and this is the issue when you don't have good bus priority. Traffic flows are so inconsistent that timings are almost worst case. So buses drag their heels the rest of the time. It was only made slightly better with the phenomenon of people catching the Clipper to travel literally just a few stops - from the rail station to Kingsway - when perhaps the X6 (and others) should be more limited stop? If the X6 was bad, my final X11 back to Carmarthen was even worse. Having left the bus station, and being reunited with my earlier e200mmc, we trundled through the city centre and then waited time at every single stop on the A483 Carmarthen Road. I can imagine it was frustrating for the driver as he pulled in for a minute, and then limped along. Notably, on leaving the main road, the pace quickened as we passed across the Loughor Estuary and a beautiful view in the dusk. We had a loop via Trostre Retail Park, the development that really ripped the heart out of Llanelli town centre, picking up a few passengers. We arrived back into the bus station, and had quite a few passengers though most were heading to places like Burry Port (but clearly, they preferred the more convenient and frequent bus than the train). Oddly, two black guys got on with a little girl and a baby in a pram - nothing odd with that except the guy with the pram looked like he was out of a 1970s Blaxploitation film! Afro, black leather coat, black polo neck, and a couple of chains and a medallion - nothing wrong in that but not what I expect in Carmarthenshire! The little girl (probably about 5/6) was very funny though she eventually fell asleep on her dad, and after we left Kidwelly, it was just us for the remainder of the run to Carmarthen as we fairly whizzed through the now dark and wet countryside.
So observations of First (and other operators) in that corner of Wales? It's really quite average. First spent a lot of money in 2014/5 on new fleet and that is still evident on local routes, though they have drafted in some older deckers for Uni services. However, the promotion of those is a bit haphazard. Otherwise, the fleet isn't bad and is being upgraded as cascaded Solo SRs come from Hampshire as do secondhand 2015 e200s to remove the elderly Darts and Solos. Marketing is poor and confused - the Metro concept is still about but seems to have been superseded by the Stenning created imagery but it's rather piecemeal. The red livery is becoming more common but it's still a mix. Same with Cymru Clipper - most vehicles are in the new livery yet bus stops are often with the old logo. That said, bus stop flags were shocking in their presentation and the fragmented approach of the local authorities is shown by the quality of bus stop info - Carmarthenshire was good whilst Neath Port Talbot was more variable. I've said it before but the Justin Davies era of management was actually ok. His successor seemed to be getting things changed (Andy Sherrington) in a manner as per his mentor, James Freeman, but then the latest MD came in just as Covid was hitting so perhaps it's understandable that the progress seemed to stall. Now it's going to be managed from Bristol, I have concerns about how things will pan out - let's hope there's enough local management retained to make a difference.
Quality bus information in Morriston
Swansea bus station
Adventure Travel isn't much better to be honest. Lots of vehicles in NAT colours, and even on my repainted Metrocity, there was the old NAT logos alongside GHAs! SWT seems a reasonable outfit but again, it's all a bit scruffy and feels a bit 1993 not 2022 with the e200 that I had looking every inch and more of its 13 years - threadbare and faded seating. TrawsCymru is perhaps the bigger disappointment, given its lofty ideals on inception. The T1C was running with a coach that had about a dozen people on which looks a bit low, all things considered. That the T6 had a replacement bus on was excusable but the fleet on the T1 (Carmarthen to Aberystwyth) is now 9 years old and absolutely battered - will First be getting anything new for that or anything else in their operations? Will the WG perhaps insist/pay for something more appropriate than old e300s and lightweight Optare Metrocitys for what are major routes? All things that should be considered.
Anyhow, hope this was of interest and apologies that my photos aren't as scenic as @RELL6L
It had been ten years since I'd travelled on buses in the Swansea area, though I've been on First Cymru services in Pembrokeshire, more recently, and around Bridgend and Port Talbot just a few months ago. However, this was a chance to sample an operation that, last time I'd travelled on it, was dominated by ex London Marshall bodied Darts and there's been a lot of change since then.
I began the day at Carmarthen with the X11. This service is one of the Cymru Clipper network and follows a pleasant route to the coast. It is operated by ex Glasgow Airport e200mmcs, which provide some very spacious accommodation being only 35 seaters. They also come with USBs and wifi and very comfortable seating, and are well suited to the route. They are, though, some of the newest vehicles in the fleet at 6 years old! We passed through the substantial village of Kidwelly and its castle that is, to be honest, largely hidden as you travel through. We then hit the coast and a pleasant bit of scenery around Pembrey and Burry Port where we looped around to serve the train station. Loadings were reasonable and we made our way to Llanelli. The town had a grim little, litter-strewn bus station that was buried under the new hotel and leisure development where a new bus station was constructed. The new one isn't brilliant but there's a Costa and a bakery and it's perfectly fine. There is a former First enquiry office that I guess is used by drivers, and this represents a pet hate of mine... There are plenty of these types of premises (and First is a common factor in these) where you have a now-closed office yet it is still in use for drivers. I'm not suggesting that the place should be reopened as a travel office in days of old, but there has to be a better way in which to use the facility to promote your services? An unmanned hub where you can get leaflets (if they're still produced) or even a static display of information - in Llanelli, rather than some graphics from 2016 (they are unchanged since then according to Streetview), what about something that promotes the X11, a map of local services and where they go? It's so frustrating that they could do something more.
My e200mmc from Carmarthen, in Llanelli bus station
Former First depot in Llanelli
Former travel office in Llanelli
It's also really noticeable about how much local services have declined in the area with the routes to Ammanford and Pontarddulais now less than hourly, whilst town routes seem very infrequent. Mind you, that might be a reflection on the decline of the town centre after the creation of the Trostre Park retail development. It is also probably a symptom of the closure of the local First depot that had latterly operated as a sub-depot of Swansea. I wandered round to the old site (vacated nearly two years ago). Still up for sale (apparently under offer) and a real eyesore with all the signage still in situ. This was a historic depot with the tramlines still in evidence even though the former tramshed was removed a few years ago before closure (I think). I guess it will be gone by next time I return. I wandered back, and then to my next bus which was to Gorseinon. This was a town that also once had a depot until the early 1990s, the site of which we passed in 47547, a Streetlite that originated in Bath and used to work some of my local routes. We made our way into Gorseinon and the depressing bus station - nothing much has changed there since 2012! There were a group of feral kids who could've ventured into the adjacent park (that oddly has some sort of stone circle there - big druid population in town?) but instead, two had a playfight in the middle of the bus station until they wisely decided they would be better moving than being mown down by my next bus. There are places that need bus stations; I'm not sure Gorseinon is one. It's a small dormitory town for Swansea and typical of the area - decaying high streets with closed banks and a succession of nail bars and charity shops. For me, the next bus was the 16 to Pontarddulais and another, newer, Streetlite. It's about 3 miles to Pontarddulais but the journey takes about 23 mins as the 16 takes in a lot of the western part of the town, with a lot of battles with badly parked cars and the like. It's a classic interurban bus route that operates in place of a town service (though Gorseinon surprisingly has one, courtesy of Adventure Travel). After many tight squeezes, we arrived at Pontarddulais bus station - it really is just two bus stops by the war memorial! There's not much in the town, other than a few pubs and a motorbike shop so I wasn't hanging around and it was time for another Streetlite... to Swansea. The X13 is another Cymru Clipper route linking Ammanford with Swansea, operating every 20 mins. It seems to be mainly 14 plate Streetlites that are fairly standard albeit in the revised two blue livery. To be honest, it wasn't a bad machine though the journey time of about 40 mins seemed generous (of that, more to come).
Gorseinon
Pontarddulais
Pontarddulais bus station (apparently)
We arrived at the smart bus station in Swansea. There is a bus info point, staffed by a fierce looking woman. Whilst there are digital displays, a simple list of departure bays for each service would also help but I didn't see one. It was a short stop though as I weighed up my options, paying the money for a run to Neath on the TrawsCymru T6. This was a former GHA Metrocity, shown by the embroidered headrests and this is where I have another whinge. TrawsCymru was a long distance bus service network with buses performing the role of local bus as well as longer inter-urban needs. The original Optare Tempos allocated were a good compromise but the vehicles (aside from some B8RLEs of Stagecoach and some e400s in North Wales) are now disappointingly standard; whilst this was an Adventure Travel stand-in, the Metrocity isn't really great for thrashing along on such work and yet it is employed here and elsewhere. Still, we had a well-loaded vehicle (nearly full) and at Neath Station, I alighted to see a load of older ladies being corralled onto the bus to head north towards Brecon by some bloke barely much younger. I wandered across to Neath bus station for my next trip. Neath Bus Station is a place that is reasonably well located yet is very down at heel. First and SWT had put some effort in a few years ago (as had Select) in terms of promotion and the signage is reasonable but perfunctory. Otherwise, it's a miserable place. The only notable thing was a Barbie Solo still running on the Pontrhydyfen service - I thought all those ex Bath ones were gone but 53813 was still going looking very battle-scarred. I was getting the SWT256 to Pontardawe - a route that is shared between First (56) and SWT. I think that's being kind - I think First reduced the frequency and SWT stepped in but someone like @Bristol LH will know better than me. My machine was ironically, a former First London e200. Very shabby affair internally and my fare was much more than the longer TC fare I'd previously paid. A handful of older ladies were returning home from their shopping and by the halfway point, I was the only passenger. Pontardawe was another of those places that used to have a depot until a few years ago; oddly, it survived when NBC-era South Wales closed its Neath Abbey depot (at one time, there were three depots in or near the town).
Former ownership of an Adventure Travel Optare
I remember these when new - it may be withdrawn by now!
It was a short wait for another Cymru Clipper, with the X6 performed by another Streetlite. Despite its relative proximity to Swansea, the journey from Pontardawe is timed for 50 mins! We made our way through Clydach (home once again to a depot that closed in the 1960s) which has a chemical works literally in the town centre! We left there and then the timings slowed and this was a problem on this and the following service. There is an odd bus lane under the M4 at Ynysforgan (you run counter to the other traffic) that then makes you wait to cross the main road to Morriston - rather than a help, it's a hindrance as there's no bus priority. You then trundle through Morriston and then back out but we were stopping constantly to wait time. Timings are clearly aimed at Mon-Fri rush hour not late Sat afternoon and this is the issue when you don't have good bus priority. Traffic flows are so inconsistent that timings are almost worst case. So buses drag their heels the rest of the time. It was only made slightly better with the phenomenon of people catching the Clipper to travel literally just a few stops - from the rail station to Kingsway - when perhaps the X6 (and others) should be more limited stop? If the X6 was bad, my final X11 back to Carmarthen was even worse. Having left the bus station, and being reunited with my earlier e200mmc, we trundled through the city centre and then waited time at every single stop on the A483 Carmarthen Road. I can imagine it was frustrating for the driver as he pulled in for a minute, and then limped along. Notably, on leaving the main road, the pace quickened as we passed across the Loughor Estuary and a beautiful view in the dusk. We had a loop via Trostre Retail Park, the development that really ripped the heart out of Llanelli town centre, picking up a few passengers. We arrived back into the bus station, and had quite a few passengers though most were heading to places like Burry Port (but clearly, they preferred the more convenient and frequent bus than the train). Oddly, two black guys got on with a little girl and a baby in a pram - nothing odd with that except the guy with the pram looked like he was out of a 1970s Blaxploitation film! Afro, black leather coat, black polo neck, and a couple of chains and a medallion - nothing wrong in that but not what I expect in Carmarthenshire! The little girl (probably about 5/6) was very funny though she eventually fell asleep on her dad, and after we left Kidwelly, it was just us for the remainder of the run to Carmarthen as we fairly whizzed through the now dark and wet countryside.
So observations of First (and other operators) in that corner of Wales? It's really quite average. First spent a lot of money in 2014/5 on new fleet and that is still evident on local routes, though they have drafted in some older deckers for Uni services. However, the promotion of those is a bit haphazard. Otherwise, the fleet isn't bad and is being upgraded as cascaded Solo SRs come from Hampshire as do secondhand 2015 e200s to remove the elderly Darts and Solos. Marketing is poor and confused - the Metro concept is still about but seems to have been superseded by the Stenning created imagery but it's rather piecemeal. The red livery is becoming more common but it's still a mix. Same with Cymru Clipper - most vehicles are in the new livery yet bus stops are often with the old logo. That said, bus stop flags were shocking in their presentation and the fragmented approach of the local authorities is shown by the quality of bus stop info - Carmarthenshire was good whilst Neath Port Talbot was more variable. I've said it before but the Justin Davies era of management was actually ok. His successor seemed to be getting things changed (Andy Sherrington) in a manner as per his mentor, James Freeman, but then the latest MD came in just as Covid was hitting so perhaps it's understandable that the progress seemed to stall. Now it's going to be managed from Bristol, I have concerns about how things will pan out - let's hope there's enough local management retained to make a difference.
Quality bus information in Morriston
Swansea bus station
Adventure Travel isn't much better to be honest. Lots of vehicles in NAT colours, and even on my repainted Metrocity, there was the old NAT logos alongside GHAs! SWT seems a reasonable outfit but again, it's all a bit scruffy and feels a bit 1993 not 2022 with the e200 that I had looking every inch and more of its 13 years - threadbare and faded seating. TrawsCymru is perhaps the bigger disappointment, given its lofty ideals on inception. The T1C was running with a coach that had about a dozen people on which looks a bit low, all things considered. That the T6 had a replacement bus on was excusable but the fleet on the T1 (Carmarthen to Aberystwyth) is now 9 years old and absolutely battered - will First be getting anything new for that or anything else in their operations? Will the WG perhaps insist/pay for something more appropriate than old e300s and lightweight Optare Metrocitys for what are major routes? All things that should be considered.
Anyhow, hope this was of interest and apologies that my photos aren't as scenic as @RELL6L
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Very interesting report, thank you. Massive overlap with my recent report (post 451) and you went to many of the same places as my trip in August - Neath, Pontardawe, Swansea, Gorseinon (even an almost identical picture of the stones - I understand they are not 'genuine'), the Loughor estuary (see my pic), Llanelli, Burry Port, Kidwelly. I agree with your thoughts on First, not too bad but nothing great, and some routes very slow (I commented on the X6), reasonable loads on some routes.
I prefer not to go to 'new' places in the dark as I would be missing out on the places and the scenery, but happy to do return trips or complete a circuit by train etc in the dark. I have some planned which are either sunrise to sunset or go slightly longer on this basis. I certainly don't intend to stop for the winter if I can avoid it!
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
I remembered your trip because, unlike me, you actually had exploration in Kidwelly, and you did have a trip up the top end of the valley from Pontardawe. You're much better at actually having a detailed exploration of these towns and finding the attractive aspects of these places.
Knowing how much you get out, it's almost impossible not to have overlap with you
I did indeed spend half an hour at Kidwelly and at Burry Port and stopped off at Loughor. I do try and find the attractive aspects - some places it is difficult! Indeed we are bound to overlap in our explorations.I remembered your trip because, unlike me, you actually had exploration in Kidwelly, and you did have a trip up the top end of the valley from Pontardawe. You're much better at actually having a detailed exploration of these towns and finding the attractive aspects of these places.
Knowing how much you get out, it's almost impossible not to have overlap with you
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
I have travelled on the Heart of Wales line so knew the bit of coast at Loughor and it really is delightful. However, Burry Port and Kidwelly were new to me and I'd certainly fancy an explore with my better half at some point.
You did well to find a nice spot in Pontardawe - not a town that I'm especially taken with.
markymark2000
On Moderation
Not sure what ticket you had for First but SWT have a rather unadvertised scheme whereby on some routes, if you have a First ticket, you only pay £1 on SWT. I found out about it by chance on the 202 and just asked if my First ticket was valid (as their website promotes some First Bus ticket acceptance) and the driver let me pay just £1 for my ticket (but I see no reference to this anywhere on the SWT website).
Would you believe, the X6 actually goes a slower way into Swansea than the 4. There is a busway just off Neath Road, running alongside the railway. No bus stops, just avoids Neath Road traffic and the Metro 4 diverts along there with the X6 picking up at normal bus stops along Neath Road. Seems a bit backwards but I just assumed it was part of the original Metro works which happened as part of the FTR bendy buses.
Sadly, in my experience on First Swansea, I also found the timings were so slack. Like a number of other operators, they favour a higher punctuality rating with the traffic commissioner rather than putting passengers first, of course passengers wanting a faster journey. All the slack timings do is push people into their cars. People compare car vs bus times and see the bus times are 20 minutes longer than a car, they choose not to travel by bus when in reality, the journey time is only 10 mins longer and that would make them consider the bus.
Dai Corner
Established Member
- Joined
- 20 Jul 2015
- Messages
- 6,357
On the other hand, if you need to be somewhere at a particular time and the bus runs late because of the traffic and over-optimistic timings you'll probably drive next time if you can.
Buses are a last resort for most passengers.
markymark2000
On Moderation
Based off what I have seen with D&G then in the North West, padding timetables too much puts people off. D&G can take over a route and within weeks the numbers drop quite a bit as people see how much longer the journey takes with the bus sitting around everywhere.
Dai Corner
Established Member
- Joined
- 20 Jul 2015
- Messages
- 6,357
This should probably be taken to a new thread before the mods tell us off.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Now that is something I was unaware of. Looking at the SWT site, you get this
I was on a standard First South Wales day ticket so perhaps I could have saved myself £4.20!!
You may well be right that it's a legacy of FTR.
Again, you're probably right. The X6 was bad, and the X11 appalling, dawdling along and waiting time for very little reason. 43 minutes is crazy when you can drive it in 20. Granted, you will have to serve Clydach but I suspect you could easily trim 5 minutes out of the X6.
markymark2000
On Moderation
Very odd. I got on the SWT 19 in Swansea (another route not listed) and asked if the same offer was available to pay the £1 and they just waved me on so I think the offer is on a very 'need to know' basis and the normal travelling public don't need to know.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Nowt on the First Cymru page (that I can see)
To be clear, megabus run from inside the Bus Station when it is open, and stops outside when it is shut.
@TheGrandWazoo new electric buses on order for T1
Yutong chosen for TrawsCymru T1 battery-electric fleet - routeone
Carmarthenshire County Council has ordered eight Yutong E12 battery-electric buses for Trawscymru T1 between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth.
www.route-one.net
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TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Thanks for that @asb - now you've posted, that reminds me I had read it (and forgotten).To be clear, megabus run from inside the Bus Station when it is open, and stops outside when it is shut.
@TheGrandWazoo new electric buses on order for T1
Yutong chosen for TrawsCymru T1 battery-electric fleet - routeone
Carmarthenshire County Council has ordered eight Yutong E12 battery-electric buses for Trawscymru T1 between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth.
Not before time - the e300s are looking a bit careworn
I found your report.
The road works in Milton Road are a major upgrade project that will take 2 years and cost an estimated £24 million. More details here:
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SouthEastBuses
On Moderation
My first ever Birmingham trip.
Got two trains from Oxford - firstly a really overcrowded CrossCountry Voyager to Banbury, then a lovely Chiltern Railways 68+MK3 to Birmingham Moor Street.
Buses - just got some National Express West Midlands (NXWM) Platinum E400 MMCs but the routes were pretty nice. Firstly I had 6814 and 7514 on the X14, a pretty nice route. I did find the Aston Expressway section quite cool too!
A brief visit to Sutton Coldfield, not the most exciting place but ah well. Then another Platinum MMC to Birmingham on the 907, 6797. 907 also was a pretty good route, going through Perry Barr, undergoing regeneration.
And after that, I went to explore Birmingham city. So overall, National Express West Midlands do have some nice buses, but I've noticed some routes can be pretty questionable in terms of safety.
Got two trains from Oxford - firstly a really overcrowded CrossCountry Voyager to Banbury, then a lovely Chiltern Railways 68+MK3 to Birmingham Moor Street.
Buses - just got some National Express West Midlands (NXWM) Platinum E400 MMCs but the routes were pretty nice. Firstly I had 6814 and 7514 on the X14, a pretty nice route. I did find the Aston Expressway section quite cool too!
A brief visit to Sutton Coldfield, not the most exciting place but ah well. Then another Platinum MMC to Birmingham on the 907, 6797. 907 also was a pretty good route, going through Perry Barr, undergoing regeneration.
And after that, I went to explore Birmingham city. So overall, National Express West Midlands do have some nice buses, but I've noticed some routes can be pretty questionable in terms of safety.
You mean personal safety from the actions of other passengers? What evidence do you have to share?
SouthEastBuses
On Moderation
When I was filming the X14, at somepoint some teenegers came to have a chat with me about me being in Birmingham, and one of the guys made fun of me being posh as I told them I came from Oxford. Towards the end, they made fun of me filming.
Nothing really bad, but I have heard from friends and on the internet that some routes (like 16, 46, 94, 97, 101) can be pretty bad as they go to rather questionable areas.
ian1944
Member
A couple of points arising from things upthread.
It's good to see the fountain working in Letchworth, the sound of running water is one of the most relaxing things I know, to add to the visual appeal. Too many have been switched off (to save water? because people throw litter in them? because they're seen as a safety hazard?).
Swansea having a good bus station but no simple list of what leaves from where reminded me of a comment in the bad bus stations thread that, compared with the horrible Cumbernauld, the ones in Fife tended to be good. In particular, I've found Glenrothes a model of what things should be. Lots of overall information and maps repeated at each cluster of stands, detailed and accurate timetable at the individual ones, lots of space to move around, right by the covered shopping centre if that's your thing (it's not mine) and the local Wetherspoon is two minutes walk away (I know that that's not everyone's thing, but it is mine).
It's good to see the fountain working in Letchworth, the sound of running water is one of the most relaxing things I know, to add to the visual appeal. Too many have been switched off (to save water? because people throw litter in them? because they're seen as a safety hazard?).
Swansea having a good bus station but no simple list of what leaves from where reminded me of a comment in the bad bus stations thread that, compared with the horrible Cumbernauld, the ones in Fife tended to be good. In particular, I've found Glenrothes a model of what things should be. Lots of overall information and maps repeated at each cluster of stands, detailed and accurate timetable at the individual ones, lots of space to move around, right by the covered shopping centre if that's your thing (it's not mine) and the local Wetherspoon is two minutes walk away (I know that that's not everyone's thing, but it is mine).
Bits of a run out today. The weather was pretty dire but I had a few hours spare so why not?
Started with the 14:53 train from Shipley to Menston. I have never done the line through Baildon so as I was in Shipley, I went for it. Northern provided 333007 for my journey. nice train, usb sockets
I got out at Menston and wanted to get to Otley. I was keen try sample the Keighley Bus co DASH. Curious route. it picked me up at the station bus stop, looped round Menston then back to where I got on, then off to Otley
Reg YJ17FUY, an Optare Solo SR in Dash livery. Fleet no 156 configured B28F, new Aug 2017
Bit of a wander round the lanes in Otley before my next bus, the X84 15:40 to Ilkley, a First route
In Leeds green livery, SK68 TSZ was to take me to Ilkley. Its a Wright Streetdeck configured H45/28F, new 11/2018 fleet no 35522. There is a pic attached to this post but if I add it as a thumbnail it displays sideways.
Sorry its not the best image. Soggy weather and rubbish phone and an idiot who forgot to put his camera on charge last night
It was a bit late into Otley (They are digging the road up at Pool Bank), and we left fairly quickly. The banksman watched us out from his chair!
The route goes down Burras Lane, past Waitrose, then left into West Chevin Rd. good driving down this narrow street.
He got a move on on the A660 road to Burley. Though Burley, now bypassed, then onto the A65 down Coutances Way. The PA announced the stops as 'cow-tan-ces', but its a French place pronounced 'Coo-tonce'. Ho hum. Ilkley is twinned with Coutances. We lost more time on Coutances Way as the gas board are digging it up.
On to Ben Rhydding, then the trail through the houses in Valley Drive and to the train station where the X84 terminates.
Memories of the route being a joint Samuel Ledgard/West Yorkshire Road Car route.
I had a short wait for the 16:12 service 62 to Keighley. This used to be a Keighley West Yorkshire route 12 that went on to Haworth. But now its just an Ilkley - Keighley route run by Keighley Bus Company. Surprisingly it interworks with the 64 Ilkley to Skipton.
Bus was YJ05 FNN, a Volvo B7RLE with Wrights bodywork configured DP44F (or it was when new) new to Yorkshire Coastliner 3/2005. My pic of it in Ilkley Station forecourt coming in as a 64 from Skipton. Yes, its a lady driver.
So out onto the A65 then turned off down the old road past Sandbeds. Then through Addingham. Crossing the A65 at a roundabout it then climbed up on the way to Silsden. The highest part of the route it was quite dense fog. Down into Silsden, and a scenic trip round the houses, then back on the main road, past Steeton and Silsden station, and a left onto the old Skipton - Keighley road at Steeton Top.
The run into Keighley from Steeton is well served by buses with the 60 from Skipton, the Burnley Bus Co from Burnley and the 62 from Ilkley all on the same road. Into Keighley and into the busy bus station.
I elected to catch a 60 to Shipley to get back to my car, as it is quicker than the Shuttle 662, as it runs down the Aire valley trunk road while the 662 uses the old main road through Riddlesden. The 60 goes to Shipley Market place while the 662 stays on the main road at Saltaire so less of a walk.
So its PJ05 ZWE on the 1710 to Leeds. a Volvo B7TL with Wright Eclipse Gemini body, configured CH39/29F new Burney and Pendle 8/2005
The 60 and the Shuttle 662 are on adjacent stands with the same departure time so there was a slight delay as we let the shuttle depart first. The off down cevendish Street with its fine iron and glass canopy in front of the shops. past the station and into Dalton lane. Past Dalton Mills destroyed by fie a few months ago, and also a glimpse of the Keighley Bus Museum - but how long will they be there when the landlord wants them out?
Out onto the dual carriageway for a few miles non-stop running till we get to crossflats. Through Bingley then back on the trunk road for the run to Saltaire. Bit of a wiggle down to Shipley market place (Its Shipleys bus station - has been for years). Nipped though to the station to get my car and back home.
Transdev have got this corner of Yorkshire pretty sewn up. I didnt go out of my way to use their buses. Its just how it is.
Started with the 14:53 train from Shipley to Menston. I have never done the line through Baildon so as I was in Shipley, I went for it. Northern provided 333007 for my journey. nice train, usb sockets
I got out at Menston and wanted to get to Otley. I was keen try sample the Keighley Bus co DASH. Curious route. it picked me up at the station bus stop, looped round Menston then back to where I got on, then off to Otley
Reg YJ17FUY, an Optare Solo SR in Dash livery. Fleet no 156 configured B28F, new Aug 2017
Bit of a wander round the lanes in Otley before my next bus, the X84 15:40 to Ilkley, a First route
In Leeds green livery, SK68 TSZ was to take me to Ilkley. Its a Wright Streetdeck configured H45/28F, new 11/2018 fleet no 35522. There is a pic attached to this post but if I add it as a thumbnail it displays sideways.
Sorry its not the best image. Soggy weather and rubbish phone and an idiot who forgot to put his camera on charge last night
It was a bit late into Otley (They are digging the road up at Pool Bank), and we left fairly quickly. The banksman watched us out from his chair!
The route goes down Burras Lane, past Waitrose, then left into West Chevin Rd. good driving down this narrow street.
He got a move on on the A660 road to Burley. Though Burley, now bypassed, then onto the A65 down Coutances Way. The PA announced the stops as 'cow-tan-ces', but its a French place pronounced 'Coo-tonce'. Ho hum. Ilkley is twinned with Coutances. We lost more time on Coutances Way as the gas board are digging it up.
On to Ben Rhydding, then the trail through the houses in Valley Drive and to the train station where the X84 terminates.
Memories of the route being a joint Samuel Ledgard/West Yorkshire Road Car route.
I had a short wait for the 16:12 service 62 to Keighley. This used to be a Keighley West Yorkshire route 12 that went on to Haworth. But now its just an Ilkley - Keighley route run by Keighley Bus Company. Surprisingly it interworks with the 64 Ilkley to Skipton.
Bus was YJ05 FNN, a Volvo B7RLE with Wrights bodywork configured DP44F (or it was when new) new to Yorkshire Coastliner 3/2005. My pic of it in Ilkley Station forecourt coming in as a 64 from Skipton. Yes, its a lady driver.
So out onto the A65 then turned off down the old road past Sandbeds. Then through Addingham. Crossing the A65 at a roundabout it then climbed up on the way to Silsden. The highest part of the route it was quite dense fog. Down into Silsden, and a scenic trip round the houses, then back on the main road, past Steeton and Silsden station, and a left onto the old Skipton - Keighley road at Steeton Top.
The run into Keighley from Steeton is well served by buses with the 60 from Skipton, the Burnley Bus Co from Burnley and the 62 from Ilkley all on the same road. Into Keighley and into the busy bus station.
I elected to catch a 60 to Shipley to get back to my car, as it is quicker than the Shuttle 662, as it runs down the Aire valley trunk road while the 662 uses the old main road through Riddlesden. The 60 goes to Shipley Market place while the 662 stays on the main road at Saltaire so less of a walk.
So its PJ05 ZWE on the 1710 to Leeds. a Volvo B7TL with Wright Eclipse Gemini body, configured CH39/29F new Burney and Pendle 8/2005
The 60 and the Shuttle 662 are on adjacent stands with the same departure time so there was a slight delay as we let the shuttle depart first. The off down cevendish Street with its fine iron and glass canopy in front of the shops. past the station and into Dalton lane. Past Dalton Mills destroyed by fie a few months ago, and also a glimpse of the Keighley Bus Museum - but how long will they be there when the landlord wants them out?
Out onto the dual carriageway for a few miles non-stop running till we get to crossflats. Through Bingley then back on the trunk road for the run to Saltaire. Bit of a wiggle down to Shipley market place (Its Shipleys bus station - has been for years). Nipped though to the station to get my car and back home.
Transdev have got this corner of Yorkshire pretty sewn up. I didnt go out of my way to use their buses. Its just how it is.
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TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Thanks for the trip report. Certainly, Wharfedale is incrementally becoming more Transdev and less First, helped by the retreat of First, and the loss of Yorkshire Tiger's Flyer routes then precipitating the sale of the depot at Idle. I'm not certain what that depot now does though, compared to those Keighley depot runs.