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Tyne and Wear Metro unable to run under closed Gateshead flyover

kez19

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Just comparing the maps on the closure of road:

Apple Maps says it’s closed til 15 Jan 2025

Google Maps it varies, on one part it says 31 Dec then on another December 2025? On both maps both were found under “traffic”.

Apple Maps updated today at 10:54
Google maps unsure of update (or last update).

Relating to what I posted earlier up thread in relation to this, I believe it was Sunderland Road the buses ran through possibly the 27 & 56 before it was closed off? (Reopened then closed again).
 
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rg177

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The 27 uses Sunderland Road (and stops) while the X10 (and X24/X34 where required, though normally they'd use the A184) run through without stopping. The only difference it's made is that when heading into Gateshead, the buses keep left by the Aldi and use the main roundabout rather than a shortcut that saw them go straight on and more directly onto the High Street by going under the Flyover.
 

kez19

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The 27 uses Sunderland Road (and stops) while the X10 (and X24/X34 where required, though normally they'd use the A184) run through without stopping. The only difference it's made is that when heading into Gateshead, the buses keep left by the Aldi and use the main roundabout rather than a shortcut that saw them go straight on and more directly onto the High Street by going under the Flyover.

Thanks for the info (must have been the 27 I used), yet just to add Google maps hasn’t updated that road for 9 years, it comes to a dead end (as such on street view).

When did Sunderland Road officially open? (As anytime I have visited it seems to have been opened then closed then open again?)
 

rg177

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Thanks for the info (must have been the 27 I used), yet just to add Google maps hasn’t updated that road for 9 years, it comes to a dead end (as such on street view).

When did Sunderland Road officially open? (As anytime I have visited it seems to have been opened then closed then open again?)
The Bus Link opened at some point at mid-2022 (from what I can see online). It's worth mentioning that Sunderland Road refers to the road that goes all the way to High Heworth (just past Heworth Metro) rather than just this short stretch under the Flyover.
 

AndrewE

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the next priority should be to demolish it, with the longer term priority being to re-configure/optimise the ground level road/junctions and improve the surrounding landscape (which has been pretty grim for decades). After that, Gannon should be sent the bill. :D
There is a good precedent for this, as Runcorn has drastically reduced the amount of link roads and flyovers leading to the old road bridge. They show up as lots of empty bits on https://www.google.com/maps/place/R...try=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTIxMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw==
 

kez19

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The Bus Link opened at some point at mid-2022 (from what I can see online). It's worth mentioning that Sunderland Road refers to the road that goes all the way to High Heworth (just past Heworth Metro) rather than just this short stretch under the Flyover.

Thanks for the additional info, I’m surprised that I have been near the flyover on visiting (if using the bus), and on the other passing it under via Metro.
 

MarkyT

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danielnez1

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There is a good precedent for this, as Runcorn has drastically reduced the amount of link roads and flyovers leading to the old road bridge. They show up as lots of empty bits on https://www.google.com/maps/place/Runcorn/@53.3405871,-2.7427195,838m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x487ae230b9cf8731:0xf48c6c2a5af9dd08!8m2!3d53.342078!4d-2.729673!16zL20vMDFmMW5s?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTIxMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw==
Gateshead (and Newcastle to a similar extent) suffer due to the 60s roadbuilding, that is also literally half finished, like the A167(M) Central motorway in Newcastle. At the time, the leader of Newcastle City Council, T. Dan Smith wanted Newcastle to be "the Brasilia of the North" which included an intensive urban motorway network. After his sandal ridden downfall, we were left with a half finished urban motorway, that cut communities and places in half and has poor (and unsafe) pedestrian thoroughfare and is visually obtrusive. Worse still, the likes of the unfinished Gateshead flyover and the Central Motorway just dump their traffic onto the old roads anyway. Hopefully like with rhe example you posted of Runcorn, the removal of some of the unnecessary and degraded 60s infrastructure will have a halo effect in opening the spaces up again for the benefit of people living next to them, and for future developments that cater to more than just car users.
 

Killingworth

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Gateshead (and Newcastle to a similar extent) suffer due to the 60s roadbuilding, that is also literally half finished, like the A167(M) Central motorway in Newcastle. At the time, the leader of Newcastle City Council, T. Dan Smith wanted Newcastle to be "the Brasilia of the North" which included an intensive urban motorway network. After his sandal ridden downfall, we were left with a half finished urban motorway, that cut communities and places in half and has poor (and unsafe) pedestrian thoroughfare and is visually obtrusive. Worse still, the likes of the unfinished Gateshead flyover and the Central Motorway just dump their traffic onto the old roads anyway. Hopefully like with rhe example you posted of Runcorn, the removal of some of the unnecessary and degraded 60s infrastructure will have a halo effect in opening the spaces up again for the benefit of people living next to them, and for future developments that cater to more than just car users.

The present situation highlights international issues but they're particularly acute here. We love planning things, can be good at building things, arent so good at completing things and are bad at maintaining things.

In my grandfather's youth there were 3 bridges, High Level, Swing and Redheugh.

The fist Redheugh was opened in 1871 but by 1897 it waa already having to be replaced. In turn by the 1960s that bridge became inadequate and unsafe leading to the presrnt bridge opened in 1983. It's now in need of significant repairs.

The 4 track King Edward rail bridge came in 1906 now reduced to 3 track.

My father remembered the building of the iconic Tyne Bridge, 4 lanes with tram tracks, opened in 1928. It's now undergoing long delayed major maintenance that seems will take almost as long as it took to build the bridge and cost a lot more.

By the 1960s there were 5 bridges and Vaux Breweries built their flagship Swallow Hotel the Five Bridges just beside the southern end of the now condemned flyover. All was looking so positive, but not everyone felt that way.

The western bypass swept round the south side of Gateshead proving inadequate for the extra traffic it attracted, Tyneside's M25! The old Scotswood Bridge had been replaced by a more robust design, now somewhat forgotten.

The Tyne Tunnel was opened in 1967 and had to be doubled, now forming the A19 Eastern bypass.

In my lifetime we've gained the Queen Elizabeth Metro bridge and the Blinking Eye pedestrian bridge. The High Level Bridge is now much restricted but I recall driving across with buses in both directions.

Back on topic, that flyover has been an eyesore since it was built and needs to go. It contributes very little benefit. Leaving the Metro aside, I sense there are soon going to be concerns about the elevated parts of the Central Motorway through Newcastle. Great North Run participants may have noticed that.
 

aar0

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I can only really see one solution here, which is demolish the flyover, and surely short term the section at risk of collapse needs to be cut out and lowered to the ground, so the metro can resume? That is probably doable in two weeks once the decision to do it is made.
 

AndrewE

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I can only really see one solution here, which is demolish the flyover, and surely short term the section at risk of collapse needs to be cut out and lowered to the ground, so the metro can resume? That is probably doable in two weeks once the decision to do it is made.
that's assuming the section can actually be "cut out and lowered!" I'd guess it was probably installed as a dozen parallel beams and then concreted/tarmacked over.
I would think the quickest thing would be to put down a weight-bearing / spreading floor, then pack the void with strong steel support sections and top it off with a strong crash deck to demolish it from the top down. (all assuming that it isn't predicted to drop soon with no warning, making the packing too much of a risk.)
Alternatively, put hoardings up each side and fill the void with lightweight foam concrete/grout which would have the same weight-spreading effect when it had set.
 

800001

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Wasn’t the North East Mayor meant to of had a meeting with the government last Monday?
Any news of what was discussed/agreed?
 

DanNCL

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Wasn’t the North East Mayor meant to of had a meeting with the government last Monday?
Any news of what was discussed/agreed?
They failed to reach any agreement. Funding for a temporary fix will be coming out of the mayoral budget.
 

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MotCO

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I can only really see one solution here, which is demolish the flyover, and surely short term the section at risk of collapse needs to be cut out and lowered to the ground, so the metro can resume? That is probably doable in two weeks once the decision to do it is made.
Should be, but you've got to get emergency tenders written, approved, costed, let, monitored etc etc. It should / must be quick, but I doubt it will be :frown:
 

androdas

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Whatever the mayor says I wouldnt bet on metros running under it in January probably going to take a couple of months whatever they choose to do, maybe less if the decision is to simply demolish. But this isnt going to be sorted in days or even weeks. If it is in imminent (Structural engineers will know already) danger of collapse then they wont take the chance and pull it down quickly, that will probably delay the metro reopening even more than if the take their time. In terms of sorting the roads out you are looking at months probably years of disruption.
 

northeast10

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Didn’t the mayor release something saying that it wouldn’t be shut for to much longer? That something was in the process of being made to make the pillar safe, and that once made would take roughly 3 days to install?
 

800001

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Didn’t the mayor release something saying that it wouldn’t be shut for to much longer? That something was in the process of being made to make the pillar safe, and that once made would take roughly 3 days to install?
Just found a tweet from the mayor sent on Xmas Eve

Christmas Eve update on Gateshead Flyover and @My_Metro:

1) Gateshead Council know how urgent it is that the Metro gets back to normal. Their engineers now have a detailed plan to make the flyover safe enough for that with work due to start on site this week.
2) Metro will wind down as planned for Christmas but there will be an hourly service all evening for those who need it, including replacement buses.
3) Nexus have a plan for a good service on Boxing Day and have additional replacement buses lined up to run from Heworth-Monument due to the @NUFC match.

A huge thank you to everyone for their patience and understanding. All the decisions about the flyover and the Metro are to keep people safe. A special thank you to the staff who have worked to get solutions in place an especially to this on the front line at Metro stations , at interchanges and on trains who have worked incredibly hard to help people under challenging circumstances.
 

edwin_m

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The 4 track King Edward rail bridge came in 1906 now reduced to 3 track.
It's still four tracks. I think the High Level was 3 reduced to 2.
I would think the quickest thing would be to put down a weight-bearing / spreading floor, then pack the void with strong steel support sections and top it off with a strong crash deck to demolish it from the top down. (all assuming that it isn't predicted to drop soon with no warning, making the packing too much of a risk.)
It must be at risk of collapsing without warning, otherwise they wouldn't have stopped the Metro.
Didn’t the mayor release something saying that it wouldn’t be shut for to much longer? That something was in the process of being made to make the pillar safe, and that once made would take roughly 3 days to install?
If the concern is only about the one pillar then it ought to be possible to build some sort of steel structure around it to hold up the deck. But again there is the risk that the whole thing collapses while people are working on it.
 

swt_passenger

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It's still four tracks. I think the High Level was 3 reduced to 2.
The only slight change to the King Edward was during electrification the easternmost track of the 4 became sort of dedicated to the Sunderland direction, the other 3 still become 4 again after the bend. I don’t think it’s of much relevance to an attempt to summarise the area’s road changes though.
 
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800001

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ITV Tyne Tees local news has just said, ‘that it is hoped the tunnels will be reopened before New Year’.
 

DanNCL

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Work to prop up pillar 9 has began today. It’s estimated to take 4 days to complete, the Metro tunnel should be able to reopen as soon as that’s done, though a reduced timetable will be needed to start with whilst the fleet maintenance backlog is cleared.

I’m astonished they’ve managed to keep a service running south of the Tyne this long.
 

kez19

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Work to prop up pillar 9 has began today. It’s estimated to take 4 days to complete, the Metro tunnel should be able to reopen as soon as that’s done, though a reduced timetable will be needed to start with whilst the fleet maintenance backlog is cleared.

I’m astonished they’ve managed to keep a service running south of the Tyne this long.

Asking as an outsider here, if they are propping up pillar 9, is traffic set to resume on the junction or will it be shut off completely to traffic and the next steps will be?
 

DanNCL

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Asking as an outsider here, if they are propping up pillar 9, is traffic set to resume on the junction or will it be shut off completely to traffic and the next steps will be?
The latter. My understanding is that the new supports will be placed on top of the road underneath the flyover.
 

800001

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Work to prop up pillar 9 has began today. It’s estimated to take 4 days to complete, the Metro tunnel should be able to reopen as soon as that’s done, though a reduced timetable will be needed to start with whilst the fleet maintenance backlog is cleared.

I’m astonished they’ve managed to keep a service running south of the Tyne this long.
Credit where it’s due to get started today, hoping it goes to plan and the line can reopen next week.
 

rg177

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I’m astonished they’ve managed to keep a service running south of the Tyne this long.
Three spare sets are still available (with a fourth possibly repairable). Only two cars are out of commission entirely (80 has an MA fault, 04 has something else though it's almost out of KMs anyway).

I'd estimate you could probably continue like this for a week or so before things started to get hairy - but as we know, all it takes is one bad morning with a couple of sudden faults or some vandalism (as has already happened) to start causing cancellations and eventually a suspension.

There's been a lot going on behind the scenes from all teams to keep the entire south side moving, even if it's been a much-reduced service. Hopefully some normality (and a longer-term plan) await us in the New Year.
 

DanNCL

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Three spare sets are still available (with a fourth possibly repairable). Only two cars are out of commission entirely (80 has an MA fault, 04 has something else though it's almost out of KMs anyway).

I'd estimate you could probably continue like this for a week or so before things started to get hairy - but as we know, all it takes is one bad morning with a couple of sudden faults or some vandalism (as has already happened) to start causing cancellations and eventually a suspension.

There's been a lot going on behind the scenes from all teams to keep the entire south side moving, even if it's been a much-reduced service. Hopefully some normality (and a longer-term plan) await us in the New Year.
29 is effectively out of action too, it’s been vandalised and it’s boxed in at Pelaw by the two faulty cars.

Credit given where credit is due, they’ve managed to sustain a service South of the Tyne in what can best be described as a very poor set of circumstances for a whole week now, I didn’t think they’d be able to manage this long.
 

ModernRailways

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I didn’t think they’d be able to manage this long.
I don’t think Metro thought they’d manage this long. I don’t quite know what it is but with the standard day to day running of the service, Metro struggles, but if you give them a challenge somehow things just about work out and they look competent.
 

Paul_10

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On the flip side why not, given the reduced service, not all sets will be used everyday, christmas day is no service in anycase, mileage I'm going to assume will be less than in normal circumstances and probably less passengers than normal so the doors are not being opened and closed as much so less likely of door faults.

It will be interesting if there will be a fleet shortage once things have resumed, having the 555 in service at least frees up another set of metrocars and perhaps given the fact so many units have returned(and who knows, maybe 4046, 51, and 56 may return?) to service, hopefully there will be enough cover to run a full service.
 

northeast10

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I think running a 24min service south side of the river was the sensible option. Gives the fitters chance to work on the other sets during the day. I’m presuming the option was either a 12 or 24 min service to keep in with the standard network rail frequency they would normally have.

Most members of the public are probably unaware of the logistics and extra work to keep the service running with the tunnel closure. Emergency timetables and driver duties being created, drivers being based on both sides of the river. A lot of last min change of plans for staff. Then all the extra work for the fitters on the south side.

I think they’ve handled it really well. I understand the platform boards not working being a pain and is maybe something that needs looking into for the future? I’ve read that there’s a new app due for 2025?
 

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