UK face coverings discussion

[bramling]

We need to be careful not to give the impression of taking the mick, otherwise they will ban drinking at all on trains.

There’s a simple solution to that. Once people start becoming dehydrated and being taken ill, handles will be being pulled, which will cause delays and start to cause hassle for staff. It won’t then take long for the powers that be to wake up.

 

[WM Bus]

I'm told Solihull Police PCSO's are in Touchwood Shopping Centre today telling people they must be wearing a card to say they are exempt.
Shocking and completely disguising. Officers are completely refusing to except the words "I'm exempt". Demanding that if they are exempt they needed to have filled in a form to say they are exempt and produce it to them at that moment.

Tweet from Solihull Touchwood Shopping Centre below is just as dreadful

https://twitter.com/TouchwoodTweets/status/1292376784034500613

Thats despite the fact anyone can buy/print a card like that, so I don't believe it holds any more weight than the words "I'm excempt".

 

[birchesgreen]

To be honest the government should have set up a proper exemption system by now, the number of people taking the mick is ridiculous.

 

[Scrotnig]

To be honest the government should have set up a proper exemption system by now, the number of people taking the mick is ridiculous.

How do you know this?

 

[birchesgreen]

How do you know this?

When i'm in a supermarket and about 80% of people are maskless i am sure they are validly exempt. Come on man.

 

[WM Bus]

To be honest the government should have set up a proper exemption system by now, the number of people taking the mick is ridiculous.

There's no way of knowing and not anyones business why frankly. And comment about people must wear an exemption pass from Solihull Police and Touchwood Shopping Centre is disgraceful. People shouldn't be being singled out like that.

 

[Scrotnig]

When i'm in a supermarket and about 80% of people are maskless i am sure they are validly exempt. Come on man.

I'm delighted you've acquired the ability to detect hidden disabilities and conditions like that, just by looking at someone from a distance.

 

[birchesgreen]

There's no way of knowing. And comment about people must wear an exemption pass from Solihull Police and Touchwood Shopping Centre is disgraceful. People shouldn't be being singled out like that.

There is no way of knowing because no system was set up.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's no way of knowing and not anyones business frankly. And comment about people must wear an exemption pass from Solihull Police and Touchwood Shopping Centre is disgraceful. People shouldn't be being singled out like that.

They are already singled out by not having a mask on. The only way to avoid singling out is by not having masks.

I'm delighted you've acquired the ability to detect hidden disabilities and conditions like that, just by looking at someone from a distance.

It is very, very clear that in particular many younger people are just taking the mick, and to deny that is similar to cyclists denying that some cyclists run red lights - it discredits those with genuine exemptions. As someone who is exempt, you should really want people who aren't exempt but aren't wearing to wear. That way, your position is protected.

 

[WM Bus]

They are already singled out by not having a mask on. The only way to avoid singling out is by not having masks.

Yes but telling people to wear a big card on them, visible for everyone to see is disgraceful. I doubt people would want everyone know why they are exempt and wearing one of them could be embarassing as well for some people.
If someone says they are exempt it should be dropped then imo.

It is very, very clear that in particular many younger people are just taking the mick,
should really want people who aren't exempt but aren't wearing to wear. That way, your position is protected.

Younger people could be exempt as well. No way of knowing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes but telling people to wear a big card on them, visible for everyone to see is disgraceful. I doubt people would want everyone know why they are exempt

The card does not say why you are exempt, it just indicates that you are.

and wearing one of them could be embarassing as well for some people.

How is it embarrassing? Do you think Blue Badge holders are embarrassed to be seen placing that in their car window?

 

[Bikeman78]

I'm delighted you've acquired the ability to detect hidden disabilities and conditions like that, just by looking at someone from a distance.

I'm fairly confident that people wearing masks on their chins aren't exempt.

Or the group of girls that got on a train without masks and only put them on when the security goons turned up.

 

[WM Bus]

How is it embarrassing? Do you think Blue Badge holders are embarrassed to be seen placing that in their car window?

I'm sure people wouldn't want everyone/complete strangers knowing they have a disability. It clearly says "Hidden Disabilities" with a bright yellow sunflower on it. There's just no need for that at all I think

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm sure eople wouldn't want everyone/complete strangers knowing they have a disability. It clearly says "Hidden Disabilities".

Perhaps it should just say "I am exempt from wearing a mask" - would that do?

 

[birchesgreen]

I'm sure eople wouldn't want everyone/complete strangers knowing they have a disability. It clearly says "Hidden Disabilities".

Doesn't the fact they are without a mask show that anyway? All the card does is formalise things and prevents people lying about it.

 

[WM Bus]

prevents people lying about it.

No it doesn't as anyone can buy one.

 

[MikeWM]

I'm fairly confident that people wearing masks on their chins aren't exempt.

They may only be able to wear one for a short period of time, like myself, and may be trying their best.

I've stopped trying altogether, partly because there seems to be this attitude that it is all or nothing.

 

[birchesgreen]

No it doesn't as anyone can buy one.

I'm talking about a proper system which should have been set up months ago.

 

[Bletchleyite]

All the card does is formalise things and prevents people lying about it.

Which, if you believe that masks are beneficial, means that having that system will save lives over not having it, because fewer people will be going around maskless - with a system, only those truly exempt will not be wearing, rather than just people who can't be bothered or disagree with them.

 

[Scrotnig]

I'm talking about a proper system which should have been set up months ago.

And how would this work? Who would issue them?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm talking about a proper system which should have been set up months ago.

Agreed. It wouldn't have been hard to have GPs prescribe an exemption card based on existing conditions, it would have been no more effort than prescribing anything else. Only a few people would have needed an extra appointment, mostly those who needed an exemption due to e.g. untreated severe anxiety.

 

[Scrotnig]

Which, if you believe that masks are beneficial, means that having that system will save lives over not having it, because fewer people will be going around maskless - with a system, only those truly exempt will not be wearing, rather than just people who can't be bothered or disagree with them.

Who decides what 'truly exempt' is?

Agreed. It wouldn't have been hard to have GPs prescribe an exemption card based on existing conditions. Only a few people would have needed an extra appointment, mostly those who needed an exemption due to e.g. untreated severe anxiety.

What about non-medical exemptions?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Who decides what 'truly exempt' is?

A doctor.

What about non-medical exemptions?

They are all medical in some form. For instance, anxiety is a medical condition.

 

[trebor79]

They may only be able to wear one for a short period of time, like myself, and may be trying their best.

I've stopped trying altogether, partly because there seems to be this attitude that it is all or nothing.

I increasingly find myself in the same boat.

A doctor.



They are all medical in some form. For instance, anxiety is a medical condition.

No they aren't. To prevent harm to self is one. So if my glasses are steaming up and I can't see it's reasonable to remove it or poke my nose out so I don't walk into something or step off a platform.
I'm sure GPs don't want to be writing prescriptions to exempt me from wearing a mask because they give me dermatitis or steam my glasses up. In some ways I'd love it if they would because they I wouldn't feel pressured into taking part in the charade every so often and suffering the consequences afterwards.

 

[Scrotnig]

A doctor.

They are all medical in some form. For instance, anxiety is a medical condition.

Doctors would never find time for anything else and they've already said they will not take on the responsibility.

"Causes severe distress" is not something any doctor could verify. Masks cause me severe distress, but I don't suffer from anxiety.
Masks also cause me to have trouble breathing. I don't have trouble breathing at any other time.

I'm afraid the 'maskivists' will need to learn to accept that some people simply cannot wear them, and they will have to get used to minding their own business instead of getting all worked up about what other people are doing.

 

[MikeWM]

Masks also cause me to have trouble breathing. I don't have trouble breathing at any other time.

I do have difficulty in certain cases (some of the classic asthma triggers), but because I know what the triggers are I can generally avoid them without needing medical treatment.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do have difficulty in certain cases (some of the classic asthma triggers), but because I know what the triggers are I can generally avoid them without needing medical treatment.

There are quite a lot of very mild asthmatics who don't have the usual asthma symptoms but still do have the condition. For instance I've only had what most would consider an asthma attack (i.e. uncontrolled hyperventilation against a very tight chest and pronounced wheezing) twice ever. So if masks genuinely make it difficult to breathe other than for anxiety-related reasons, it would be a good idea to see your GP about getting tested to see if you maybe do have asthma and perhaps if a blue inhaler to hand might not be a terrible idea.

 

[island]

When i'm in a supermarket and about 80% of people are maskless i am sure they are validly exempt. Come on man.

I'm delighted you've acquired the ability to detect hidden disabilities and conditions like that, just by looking at someone from a distance.

That isn’t necessary, all you need is fairly basic statistics. Assuming we’re not talking about a very small number of people, the probability that 80% of a given random sample of people have a disability or condition preventing them from wearing a mask is infinitesimal.

 

[Scrotnig]

So if masks genuinely make it difficult to breathe other than for anxiety-related reasons, it would be a good idea to see your GP about getting tested to see if you maybe do have asthma and perhaps if a blue inhaler to hand might not be a terrible idea.

That's a lot of trouble and inconvenience to go to just to be able to wear a mask.

If there is no ordinary impact on normal life then there is no issue.

Making people get medical treatment just so they can wear a pointless mask is abhorrent.

 

[35B]

Doctors would never find time for anything else and they've already said they will not take on the responsibility.

"Causes severe distress" is not something any doctor could verify. Masks cause me severe distress, but I don't suffer from anxiety.
Masks also cause me to have trouble breathing. I don't have trouble breathing at any other time.

I'm afraid the 'maskivists' will need to learn to accept that some people simply cannot wear them, and they will have to get used to minding their own business instead of getting all worked up about what other people are doing.

And similarly 'anti-maskivists' need to be a little less determined to prove that mask wearing is impossible and unreasonable. I dislike wearing a mask, finding it uncomfortable, prone to steaming my glasses up, and does affect my breathing slightly. Those side effects are, in my case, mild and by no means sufficient to make me lay claim to an exemption; I would not waste my GP's time to diagnose such trivial issues - which is why I both thoroughly support the idea that exemptions are self identified, and worry that the determination of some to avoid masks by unreasonably laying claim to exemption will lead to much tighter enforcement - which might or might not benefit @Scrotnig.