Unite Network Rail Strikes Off

[Russel]

So where do the RMT go from here, once they've threw their toys out of the pushchair?

 

[Geml246]

Watched "I'm All Right Jack" again on TV yesterday , can't stop calling Mick Lynch , Fred Kite now!

 

[JonathanH]

It is reasonable to assume that some of them will come to work during the strikes, especially on the signalling side.

Yes, but if there aren't any trains to run, they can just spend the shift drinking tea. The railway can't just start running trains because a signaller reports for work. Therefore, they get the desired disruption without losing pay, which is win-win from their point of view.

Indeed, the RMT are showing their inability to negotiate or reach a sensible compromise!

It would appear that, in the RMT's view there is not an acceptable compromise on offer. It is all very well suggesting that the RMT compromise but why should they have to if it isn't what they are seeking.

 

[philosopher]

See tweet attached

https://twitter.com/AlanJonesPA/status/1602317791591337985

Will this strike being called off change the situation for passengers at all?

 

[Smidster]

Seems they have worked themselves into a bit of a hole here.

It is pretty clear that there isn't going to be a substantially better or different offer on the way and instead you are asking people to lose at least 12 days pay at the most expensive time of year and what I imagine can usually be a good month with all the work ongoing (apologies if wrong on that) ...Either way tough to see anything that offsets that loss of earnings.

Personally I think you need to call off the Christmas strike as an easy PR win and then reballot with a neutral position.

Dumb question - are these basically the same jobs with people choosing between unions? If so surely there can't be another offer as then we are into equal pay territory

Will this strike being called off change the situation for passengers at all?

No

 

[Towers]

It would appear that, in the RMT's view there is not an acceptable compromise on offer. It is all very well suggesting that the RMT compromise but why should they have to if it isn't what they are seeking.

This is part of the RMT's problem, unfortunately! Negotiation, by its very nature, involves compromise. In this case it appears to be particularly relevant, seeing as the 'other side' are seemingly holding all of the cards, having done deals with other unions. The 'hard line' approach fails incredibly quickly when the membership get fed up and start coming to work.

 

[43066]

Post withdrawn - I was referring to the TOC dispute which is off topic for this thread.

 

[footprints]

But to be fair we all now know that a deal acceptable to both the RDG and the RMT was on the point of being agreed a couple of weeks ago, only for the government to torpedo it by insisting on a universal DOO clause. So how exactly is that the RMT’s fault?!

DOO is nothing to do with Network Rail and irrelevant to this dispute.

 

[43066]

DOO is nothing to do with Network Rail and irrelevant to this dispute.

Noted - apologies - it’s getting difficult to keep up with which dispute is where! I’ve withdraw that last post.

 

[Towers]

But to be fair we all now know that a deal acceptable to both the RDG and the RMT was on the point of being agreed a couple of weeks ago, only for the government to deliberately torpedo it by insisting on a universal DOO clause. So how exactly is that the RMT’s fault?!

It feels sometimes like certain posters will always default to an anti union (and especially anti RMT) stance, and refuse to accept anything to suggest they may have a point, or that other parties may be at fault.

Just to clarify, I wasn't referring to the DOO stuff - as you've acknowledged.

I agree it's hard to keep tabs!

 

[JonathanH]

DOO is nothing to do with Network Rail and irrelevant to this dispute.

You say that but in part at least, RMT signallers are effectively on strike to protect the jobs of guards.

While they will desire a better pay settlement, ultimately it seems that their bargaining power isn't enough to get it, and consequently the loss of pay striking will mean that they give up. It could be argued that the RMT is holding out on the Network Rail action to keep the TOC action effective.

Clearly the RMT needs to be very careful not to be seen to be taking secondary action.

 

[Thirteen]

This is part of the RMT's problem, unfortunately! Negotiation, by its very nature, involves compromise. In this case it appears to be particularly relevant, seeing as the 'other side' are seemingly holding all of the cards, having done deals with other unions. The 'hard line' approach fails incredibly quickly when the membership get fed up and start coming to work.

From a PR point of view, the fact other unions have done deals with Network Rail isn't great for the RMT. I can imagine the media and politicians will use this to their advantage to say that they're being greedy, stubborn etc may not be the case in reality but it's going to be harder for Mick Lynch to defend strike action on the NR side of things if his union is the outlier.

 

[Towers]

S

You say that but in part at least, RMT signallers are effectively on strike to protect the jobs of guards.

While they will desire a better pay settlement, ultimately it seems that their bargaining power isn't enough to get it, and consequently the loss of pay striking will mean that they give up. It could be argued that the RMT is holding out on the Network Rail action to keep the TOC action effective.

Clearly the RMT needs to be very careful not to be seen to be taking secondary action.

Signallers are effectively on strike to protect P way jobs possibly, the TOC dispute really has very little to do with it.

You could argue that guards are protecting ticket office jobs however.

 

[Railwayowl80]

Can someone help clear this up for me because I’m confused as hell now
unite have excepted network railways offer…so a mate at work has message me saying strikes are cancelled now for 23-24th at work on EMR I thought that was a different dispute ie…with tocs not connected with the network rail dispute or have I got this completely wrong

 

[weeklycommuter]

I clearly can't do maths, it's meant to be 63/37.

DEFEND JOBS, PAY AND CONDITIONS - NETWORK RAIL

www.rmt.org.uk

Eligible to vote:18540
Votes cast:15370 (83%)
Voting to Accept:5598 (36%)
Voting to Reject:9772 (64%)
Rejected by 52.7% of RMT members eligible to vote. Not really big enough to be comfortable, a lot of RMT members voted to accept the offer. Unite members accepted. TSSA recommends acceptance result due Thursday 15 December. Even if Unite and TSSA have far fewer members at Network Rail than the RMT it still shows that the unions are not united on this, the RMT is starting to look isolated.

 

[Bald Rick]

Yes, but if there aren't any trains to run, they can just spend the shift drinking tea. The railway can't just start running trains because a signaller reports for work. Therefore, they get the desired disruption without losing pay, which is win-win from their point of view.

But there are some trains to run, or possessions to grant, or signalling testing to be on the receiving end of, or briefing to be received, or competency tests to complete.

And don’t underestimate the inner ‘conflict’ that individuals will have to resolve to break the strike.

Dumb question - are these basically the same jobs with people choosing between unions? If so surely there can't be another offer as then we are into equal pay territory

It is the same ‘bargaining group’, but not necessarily the same jobs. Most signallers are in the RMT, whereas Electrical Control Room Operators are split across the three unions. Station staff are in RMT or TSSA, Maintenance staff are mostly RMT, albeit maintenance office based roles are TSSA and Unite have a few members. The office based staff in other areas ar generally TSSA, although there are some RMT.

But it is the same offer to all of them, and always has been in this dispute.

 

[weeklycommuter]

DEFEND JOBS, PAY AND CONDITIONS - NETWORK RAIL

www.rmt.org.uk

Eligible to vote:18540
Votes cast:15370 (83%)
Voting to Accept:5598 (36%)
Voting to Reject:9772 (64%)
Rejected by 52.7% of RMT members eligible to vote. Not really big enough to be comfortable, a lot of RMT members voted to accept the offer. Unite members accepted. TSSA recommends acceptance result due Thursday 15 December. Even if Unite and TSSA have far fewer members at Network Rail than the RMT it still shows that the unions are not united on this, the RMT is starting to look isolated.

Also the RMT leadership recommended that RMT members vote to reject to Network Rail offer so RMT members voting to accept were voting against the recommendation of the RMT leadership.

 

[nedchester]

DEFEND JOBS, PAY AND CONDITIONS - NETWORK RAIL

www.rmt.org.uk

Eligible to vote:18540
Votes cast:15370 (83%)
Voting to Accept:5598 (36%)
Voting to Reject:9772 (64%)
Rejected by 52.7% of RMT members eligible to vote. Not really big enough to be comfortable, a lot of RMT members voted to accept the offer. Unite members accepted. TSSA recommends acceptance result due Thursday 15 December. Even if Unite and TSSA have far fewer members at Network Rail than the RMT it still shows that the unions are not united on this, the RMT is starting to look isolated.

You could turn that round and say 30.2% of those eligible to voted to accept…….

 

[Bald Rick]

Also the RMT leadership recommended that RMT members vote to reject to Network Rail offer so RMT members voting to accept were voting against the recommendation of the RMT leadership.

But we’ve been told repeatedly on threads about this dispute that it’s a free vote and the membership decide what to do for themselves…

 

[Exscrew]

But we’ve been told repeatedly on threads about this dispute that it’s a free vote and the membership decide what to do for themselves…

A union is only as strong as its membership, solidarity is strength

 

[Thirteen]

It would be interesting to see if the remaining 17% had voted if it would changed the results somewhat.

 

[Bald Rick]

It would be interesting to see if the remaining 17% had voted if it would changed the results somewhat.

It wouldn’t have changed the result (in terms of which way the result went), but it might have changed the outcome (Ie what happens now).

 

[carriageline]

Remember, RMT are also fighting the “Modernising Maintenance” cuts which most of the other unions (as far as I can see, are not and it’s a ‘straight forward’ pay talk)

 

[Bald Rick]

Remember, RMT are also fighting the “Modernising Maintenance” cuts which most of the other unions (as far as I can see, are not and it’s a ‘straight forward’ pay talk)

All the unions are having the same discussion. It is true that more RMT members are affected by the maintenance modernisation than members of the other unions; but it is also true that more RMT members are not affected than in members of the other unions.

 

[Towers]

All the unions are having the same discussion. It is true that more RMT members are affected by the maintenance modernisation than members of the other unions; but it is also true that more RMT members are not affected than in members of the other unions.

You have to consider though that the RMT take the approach of very much lumping everything in together at each company, rather than settling different grades' disputes individually. It makes things slightly opaque for their membership, but presumably the idea is that no one particular issue is left still outstanding when others have been resolved. The same is also happening at the TOCs, where there is presumably wide acceptance that certain grades' strike action is helping to prop up other aspects of the dispute.

Do other unions do the same?

 

[Alex1971]

I know a fair few fellow RMT NR staff who are in maintenance & renewals office based jobs (section planners,admins etc) are now seriously thinking about quitting the RMT, they feel like the RMT are only bothered about track based roles and are dropping the overtime ban to try and give the track grades the chance to claw some earnings back to cover strike days, while the office staff just have to crack on, most of the office staff I speak to voted to accept, myself included.

 

[Thirteen]

The biggest mistake by the RMT was recommending to reject the deal. They've put themselves in a difficult position which I'm not sure they can claw themselves out.

 

[Russel]

Given Unite have accepted and TSSA are likely to accept, where does this leave their members in regards to receiving the accepted pay rise? Do they have to wait for the RMT to accept before they get it?

 

[ComUtoR]

Given Unite have accepted and TSSA are likely to accept, where does this leave their members in regards to receiving the accepted pay rise? Do they have to wait for the RMT to accept before they get it?

Which grades are they representing ?

 

[Russel]

Which grades are they representing ?

No idea, sorry!