VauxhallandI
Established Member
Only in your eyes
Only in your eyes
Scotland has more closely followed what the scientists have said than England has since the start of the pandemic and Scotland is currently in a far worse position than England. Higher infection rates, higher hospitalisations, higher death rate and fewer people previously infected meaning this situation could continue for quite some time. So saying scientists say something really doesn't mean much.And the eyes of most epidemiologists, virologists, scientists and subsequently most government leaders.
Scotland has more closely followed what the scientists have said than England has since the start of the pandemic and Scotland is currently in a far worse position than England. Higher infection rates, higher hospitalisations, higher death rate and fewer people previously infected meaning this situation could continue for a reasonable amount of time. So saying scientists say something really doesn't mean much.
It isn't irrelevant at all. The "science" has largely been nonsense so saying the "science" says something will happen in the future is not a reason to take any action. Your argument is also incredibly flawed. Mutations do not just happen in the UK. This is a global pandemic and, as we are only a small % of the global population, any vaccine evading mutation is far more likely to develop elsewhere than here so even if we completely eradicated the virus it would barely have any effect on the likelihood of a vaccine evading mutation happening somewhere in the world.
However, the point is that increased transmission increases the risk of a new variant developing, which may or may not be one which evades the vaccines; the risk is increased with higher levels of infection.
Scotland and Wales are just playing sensible and there are arguments both for and against England implementing the system. However, the point is that increased transmission increases the risk of a new variant developing, which may or may not be one which evades the vaccines; the risk is increased with higher levels of infection.
If a vaccine-resistant strain did develop and we went back to having lockdowns until the vaccine had been redeveloped to provide protection then people would be crying outrage that governments hadn't put measures in place (like vaccine proof) to help guard against something like this - they can't win.
All of this is irrelevant to the point in question though, that virus mutation and chance of a new variant developing is increased by higher infection rates.
People can debate whether this increased risk is worth putting measures like vaccine passports in place to help counter it, but clearly the Scottish and Welsh governments think it is.
No variant has been found to escape the protection of vaccines against severe disease, at least not to any meaningful degree.All of this is irrelevant to the point in question though, that virus mutation and chance of a new variant developing is increased by higher infection rates.
People can debate whether this increased risk is worth putting measures like vaccine passports in place to help counter it, but clearly the Scottish and Welsh governments think it is.
Mathematically, that's untrue through simple probability theory.Scotland and Wales are just playing sensible and there are arguments both for and against England implementing the system. However, the point is that increased transmission increases the risk of a new variant developing, which may or may not be one which evades the vaccines; the risk is increased with higher levels of infection.
Total unadulterated rubbish I’m afraid.And the eyes of most epidemiologists, virologists, scientists and subsequently most government leaders.
Mathematically, that's untrue through simple probability theory.
Pragmatically, whilst still phenomenally unlikely, a much greater risk is wasting doses on scientifically dubious boosters, whilst people in the developing world are unvaccinated.
Scotland and Wales are just playing sensible and there are arguments both for and against England implementing the system. However, the point is that increased transmission increases the risk of a new variant developing, which may or may not be one which evades the vaccines; the risk is increased with higher levels of infection.
If a vaccine-resistant strain did develop and we went back to having lockdowns until the vaccine had been redeveloped to provide protection then people would be crying outrage that governments hadn't put measures in place (like vaccine proof) to help guard against something like this - they can't win.
The latter bit is exactly the point. However, there has been no mention of vaccine passports applying to booster jabs, only for the initial two doses which have been shown to offer the best protection, hence why the governments are so keen to persuade people to have them.
For anyone interested in freedom there are events in most cities today as part of World Wide Demonstration Day
There was also no mention of passports 18 months ago and now look where we are, I wouldn’t feel so confident that conditions to enjoy life wouldn’t include the boosters.
Persuade is putting up posters, banning people from normal human activities if they've not had a vaccine is coercion, forcing everyone to prove they are worthy to go into places is stalinist.The latter bit is exactly the point. However, there has been no mention of vaccine passports applying to booster jabs, only for the initial two doses which have been shown to offer the best protection, hence why the governments are so keen to persuade people to have them.
I wouldn’t be surprised if boosters are offered to everyone, and if they are I expect you’ll need to be “triple jabbed” to get a vaccine passport.
Indeed. You only need to take a look at countries like Israel to see that.I think this is the outcome too, anyone who believes that two jabs will be enough to get them living the easy life in the top tier above the “unhealthy, unclean vermin that is the unvaccinated” is labouring under a great delusion.
You might want to check your definitions somewhat - Stalinism involved a great deal more than you suggest, while coercion typically involves compelling people to do something, not preventing them from doing something.Persuade is putting up posters, banning people from normal human activities if they've not had a vaccine is coercion, forcing everyone to prove they are worthy to go into places is stalinist.
Which people would be crying outrage? Do you mean the hysterical brigade on Facebook? With attitudes like this some people will never get back to living normally.If a vaccine-resistant strain did develop and we went back to having lockdowns until the vaccine had been redeveloped to provide protection then people would be crying outrage that governments hadn't put measures in place (like vaccine proof) to help guard against something like this - they can't win.
Completely agree with you.Or maybe it’s just time to move on from Covid and accept it’s going to be here forever and really not worth wasting our lives over? I think that’s a great plan, the hysterical types have had their way for too long quite frankly.
There’s no need for restrictions and lockdowns at this point.
You might want to check your definitions somewhat - Stalinism involved a great deal more than you suggest, while coercion typically involves compelling people to do something, not preventing them from doing something.
You might want to check your definitions somewhat - Stalinism involved a great deal more than you suggest, while coercion typically involves compelling people to do something, not preventing them from doing something.
Which people would be crying outrage? Do you mean the hysterical brigade on Facebook? With attitudes like this some people will never get back to living normally.
Assuming Scotland & Wales introduces those vaccine passports, how long before they extend the scope where you need to show it, ie all pubs/restaurants & hotels?
I was out on the town yesterday pubs and bars were thriving, queues to get in practically everywhere, zero social distancing, it was good old fashioned normality, I cannot see anyone; jabbed or unjabbed wanting to keep Covid going longer than necessary and give up normality again.
That matches my observations from last night. It is feeling a lot more “2019 normal” out there now, which is good to see. Certainly a great deal more so than during the snatched periods of freedom between lockdowns we had last year.
I suspect the government has realised vaccine passports are a political hot potato which will cause division and controversy out of all proportion to any possible benefit, so that’s some progress. It’s just a shame they didn’t realise the same thing about masks last year!