• Dear Guest, and welcome to RailUK Forums. Our non-railway discussion forums are currently restricted until members have five or more posts, and you will not be able to make a new thread or reply to an existing one in this section until you have made five or more posts elsewhere on the forum.

Vaccine Progress, Approval, and Deployment

Darandio

Established Member
Joined
24 Feb 2007
Messages
9,713
Location
Redcar
This whole program is an utter farce.

Got my first AZ jab on 5th June when my GP was running a clinic, was told at the time that they would run another clinic 8 weeks later which would be this Saturday. After receiving no communication about it I went in today and they said there now won't be a second clinic but I could go into the town centre today where a mobile vaccination centre has been set up for both AZ and Pfizer vaccines and I could have it a couple of days early.

Went down the town and queued up for the vaccination only to be told they aren't doing AZ at all and the only way would be to go back to booking online at another centre. Tried that and just as before i'm being offered locations upwards of 30 miles away and all appointments are midweek which I couldn't attend anyway, never mind the fact I ain't travelling that far for it.

They couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

Just had my second one done. Because Redcar has effectively washed their hands of anyone needing AZ I was in Middlesbrough today and managed to get off early to go to the walk-in at North Ormesby.

As seen in recent posts above my GP stated clearly that they had effectively washed their hands of organising second vaccines and left people like me to fend for themselves and find a second dose of AZ. As above I did so earlier this week then lo and behold today a letter arrives from the GP inviting me to a second vaccine appointment in their surgery.

What a mess.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

MikeWM

Established Member
Joined
26 Mar 2010
Messages
2,505
Location
Ely
An observant patient? Stock taking?

She'd have to have been pretty incompetent to have been caught in either of those ways though. Quite possibly she was, I suppose. If she left a social media trail, then I guess she wasn't trying to cover her tracks as hard as she could.

As for finding out how many have been affected, that's quite easy - either "vaccinated" patients falling ill, or where there's a suspicion, testing of the patients allegedly vaccinated for their immunity.

But vaccinated patients do fall ill too, and at those numbers with current prevalence infection in the general population you'd have to be looking quite closely (ie. already be suspicious) to see anything statistically significant. Checking immunity via antibodies may well be it, but we know the vaccine doesn't produce antibodies in everyone, so again you'd have to do a lot of checking.

As for the far right reference, I'd not be so quick to call it a smear. She's identified as having shared "corona-critical information" online, which is frequently political in character, and police are stating that a political motive is in the question. I strongly suspect the reporter's put two and two together, possibly with the aid of a nudge from the police, and written in that way to sidestep confidentiality and sub-judice laws.

She may or may not be, I've no idea, but the reference in the article

Germany has seen many anti-vaccination protests.
Far-right groups are among those who reject the official data and conclusions about the spread of Covid.

is clearly generic, not about her. (And, by saying 'among', they are again doing that thing where they technically tell the truth while also implying something more).
 

35B

Established Member
Joined
19 Dec 2011
Messages
1,882
She may or may not be, I've no idea, but the reference in the article



is clearly generic, not about her. (And, by saying 'among', they are again doing that thing where they technically tell the truth while also implying something more).
Indeed - which I’m suggesting may be entirely valid contextual reporting within the bounds of German pre trial reporting restrictions.
 

Darandio

Established Member
Joined
24 Feb 2007
Messages
9,713
Location
Redcar
Based on previous timescales i'm expecting an announcement on wanting to vaccinate primary school children in six months.


The Pfizer/BioNTech coronavirus vaccine is "safe, well tolerated" and produces a "robust" antibody immune response in children aged five to 11, according to the findings of a US trial.
The researchers plan to submit the results to regulators to seek approval for vaccinating children younger than 12, the current age limit.
More than 2,000 children took part and were given two small doses of vaccine.
Results in children under five are expected soon.
The findings, distributed in a press release, are the first of their kind for children under 12 - a trial of the Moderna vaccine in six to 11-year-olds is ongoing.
Both jabs are already being offered to adolescents over 12 in countries including the UK, which is just beginning its rollout of jabs to healthy teenagers.
The young children in the Pfizer trial were given 10 microgram doses, rather than the 30 micrograms recommended for over 12s. Antibody responses and side effects were comparable. The under fives in the study are being given even smaller doses.
Dr Ugur Sahin, CEO and co-founder of BioNTech, said: "The safety profile and immunogenicity data in children aged five to 11 years vaccinated at a lower dose are consistent with those we have observed with our vaccine in other older populations at a higher dose.
"We are pleased to be able to submit data to regulatory authorities for this group of school-aged children before the start of the winter season."
Although Covid is rarely severe in children, they can still catch and spread it and some will get very sick.
The UK has this week begun offering one dose of the Pfizer vaccine to children in secondary schools.
Although this won't stop the virus circulating, it could help keep more pupils in class, say experts.
Pfizer chief executive Albert Bourla said: "We are eager to extend the protection afforded by the vaccine to this younger population, subject to regulatory authorization, especially as we track the spread of the Delta variant and the substantial threat it poses to children."
He added: "These trial results provide a strong foundation for seeking authorization of our vaccine for children five to 11 years old, and we plan to submit them to the FDA and other regulators with urgency."
 

Islineclear3_1

Established Member
Joined
24 Apr 2014
Messages
4,044
Location
PTSO or platform depending on the weather
Based on previous timescales i'm expecting an announcement on wanting to vaccinate primary school children in six months.

The BBC article states "More than 2,000 children took part and were given two small doses of vaccine".

Can you provide a link to this study please?
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
55,099
Location
Yorkshire
I personally am pleased secondary students are being vaccinated; it's not necessary for their health but without it they would be subject to too may restrictions and disruption.

In an ideal world it wouldn't be necessary but given the world we live in, it is.

As for primary children, the case grows weaker as you go down the ages. Coronaviruses typically circulate strongly in younger children who build good immunity at a young age. I can see a case for vaccinating children under 12 but less so when you get down to age 5, and it's difficult to justify until vaccine production has ramped up to the extent there are no longer shortages.

In really getting stuck in arguing with maskivists on Twitter. They mostly seem to be giving up once they realise they can't win the argument. A few keep going and I just keep arguing until they give up.

I've seen hundreds of people today and only one person wear a mask all day.

Edit: I actually meant to post that elsewhere, didn't realise I had posted it here!
 
Last edited:

35B

Established Member
Joined
19 Dec 2011
Messages
1,882
I personally am pleased secondary students are being vaccinated; it's not necessary for their health but without it they would be subject to too may restrictions and disruption.

In an ideal world it wouldn't be necessary but given the world we live in, it is.

As for primary children, the case grows weaker as you go down the ages. Coronaviruses typically circulate strongly in younger children who build good immunity at a young age. I can see a case for vaccinating children under 12 but less so when you get down to age 5, and it's difficult to justify until vaccine production has ramped up to the extent there are no longer shortages.
With a 16 year old already jabbed, I'm looking forward to the 13 year old receiving hers soon, for precisely the reasons you give. And, even if Covid were as minor (fatalities, long Covid) as some allege, I would still be in favour of vaccination given how hard a friend's unvaccinated 15 year old son is being hit by what appears to be a self-limiting, non-hospital requiring, case. The ethics of when you administer are complex, especially with supplies in many countries so limited.
In really getting stuck in arguing with maskivists on Twitter. They mostly seem to be giving up once they realise they can't win the argument. A few keep going and I just keep arguing until they give up.
I'd be careful about how much credit I'd take to myself in that case - if I were arguing a case, there's a point at which I'd save my breath rather than just fight on regardless.
 

DustyBin

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2020
Messages
1,604
Location
First Class
So, once the booster jabs come out, will you still be 'fully vaccinated' ?

Some countries require you to be fully up to date, but it’s not clear what the position will be in the UK (and it may will probably differ in the devolved nations!).

I think once they’ve been offered to everybody (presuming they are of course) that’s when the requirement will be implemented. Interestingly JVT was asked this question last week and he said it was a political decision (or words to that effect).
 

TravelDream

Member
Joined
7 Aug 2016
Messages
406
So, once the booster jabs come out, will you still be 'fully vaccinated' ?

Some countries have put time limits on 'fully vaccinated'.

Austria has said 360 days for two dose vaccines from the second doses. If you have a third dose, it restarts the 360 days.
For one dose vaccines, they've said it's 270 days.

I wouldn't be surprised for others to do the same.
 
Last edited:

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
55,099
Location
Yorkshire
It's ridiculous because in the long term, the natural cycle of Coronaviruses is to get immunity through natural infection at a young age and then get boosters every so often through natural exposure. OK so we are not there yet, and right now we need to continue vaccinating more people and probably go further than age 12, but that is the long term endgame.

Any such attempts to force people into taking boosters should not be applied in the medium to longer term and should definitely not be forced onto younger / healthy people. The focus needs to shift from "you may infect others" which really is nonsense.
 

DustyBin

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2020
Messages
1,604
Location
First Class
It's ridiculous because in the long term, the natural cycle of Coronaviruses is to get immunity through natural infection at a young age and then get boosters every so often through natural exposure. OK so we are not there yet, and right now we need to continue vaccinating more people and probably go further than age 12, but that is the long term endgame.

Any such attempts to force people into taking boosters should not be applied in the medium to longer term and should definitely not be forced onto younger / healthy people. The focus needs to shift from "you may infect others" which really is nonsense.

I totally agree (apart from the need to vaccinate young people maybe) but we're not following the science anymore, that much is clear.

The "you may infect others" claim is simply an extension of the "wear a mask to protect others" nonsense, it's just a cynical way of applying pressure.
 

Bayum

Established Member
Joined
21 Mar 2008
Messages
2,461
Location
Leeds
I personally am pleased secondary students are being vaccinated; it's not necessary for their health but without it they would be subject to too may restrictions and disruption.

In an ideal world it wouldn't be necessary but given the world we live in, it is.

As for primary children, the case grows weaker as you go down the ages. Coronaviruses typically circulate strongly in younger children who build good immunity at a young age. I can see a case for vaccinating children under 12 but less so when you get down to age 5, and it's difficult to justify until vaccine production has ramped up to the extent there are no longer shortages.

In really getting stuck in arguing with maskivists on Twitter. They mostly seem to be giving up once they realise they can't win the argument. A few keep going and I just keep arguing until they give up.

I've seen hundreds of people today and only one person wear a mask all day.

Edit: I actually meant to post that elsewhere, didn't realise I had posted it here!
Lucky you. I had four children off with COVID in the first week. We’ve had 9 families over summer as well. Kids have all been pretty poorly.

As for me, I’m anxiously awaiting my letter telling me I can book my third vaccine. Hoping for Pfizer but Moderna will do!
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
55,099
Location
Yorkshire
Lucky you. I had four children off with COVID in the first week. We’ve had 9 families over summer as well. Kids have all been pretty poorly.

Well I have had loads of conversations with parents/kids about mild cases, so if you have experienced some pretty poorly kids then I would say there are always outliers but your/their experience is in no way representative.

Kids who have been "pretty ill" tend to be ill with other things.


As for me, I’m anxiously awaiting my letter telling me I can book my third vaccine. Hoping for Pfizer but Moderna will do!
I doubt that will make any difference; what would be more useful is if anyone vaccinated with a viral vector vaccine got an mRNA as the booster, and vice-versa.
 

Bayum

Established Member
Joined
21 Mar 2008
Messages
2,461
Location
Leeds
I doubt that will make any difference; what would be more useful is if anyone vaccinated with a viral vector vaccine got an mRNA as the booster, and vice-versa.
As I’ve told you, multiple times, that’s the plan for the immunosuppressed primary vaccines; vaccinate with either Pfizer or Moderna regardless of primary two doses.
 

DustyBin

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2020
Messages
1,604
Location
First Class
As I’ve told you, multiple times, that’s the plan for the immunosuppressed primary vaccines; vaccinate with either Pfizer or Moderna regardless of primary two doses.

I don’t think that’s what @yorkie is saying though. You may well end up with AZ initially then an MRNA booster but you also may not, and to the best of my knowledge you certainly won’t receive an MRNA initially then an AZ booster.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
55,099
Location
Yorkshire
As I’ve told you, multiple times, that’s the plan for the immunosuppressed primary vaccines; vaccinate with either Pfizer or Moderna regardless of primary two doses.
And I've said multiple times that combining different vaccine types is likely to yield higher efficacy.

I am not saying that it will happen!
 

Yew

Established Member
Joined
12 Mar 2011
Messages
5,408
Location
Nottingham
As I’ve told you, multiple times, that’s the plan for the immunosuppressed primary vaccines; vaccinate with either Pfizer or Moderna regardless of primary two doses.
Not quite, as I think @yorkie is suggesting that there may be some advantage to using the AZ vaccine for those who have already had Pfizer too.
 

Jamiescott1

Member
Joined
22 Feb 2019
Messages
461
I tested positive for covid this morning on an lfd test.
My 2nd jab was in June.
My symptoms are a runny nose, temperature and weirdly my arm hurts where I was jabbed.
My partner also has worse symptoms than me but tested negative.
 

kristiang85

Established Member
Joined
23 Jan 2018
Messages
1,620
I tested positive for covid this morning on an lfd test.
My 2nd jab was in June.
My symptoms are a runny nose, temperature and weirdly my arm hurts where I was jabbed.
My partner also has worse symptoms than me but tested negative.
Yes I was positive a couple of weeks ago (fully vaccinated in July).

I had the same symptoms pretty much, though instead of the sore arm it was an all body rash. That was the only really unpleasant thing.

My wife got it too, but all she displayed was sniffles.

Basically the vaccines have turned this into a cold, which shows they are doing their job.
 

Jamiescott1

Member
Joined
22 Feb 2019
Messages
461
Yes I was positive a couple of weeks ago (fully vaccinated in July).

I had the same symptoms pretty much, though instead of the sore arm it was an all body rash. That was the only really unpleasant thing.

My wife got it too, but all she displayed was sniffles.

Basically the vaccines have turned this into a cold, which shows they are doing their job.

Thats what I expected. I just find it really odd that there is pain in the exact same spot where my vaccine was (coincidence and I'm over thinking)
 

kristiang85

Established Member
Joined
23 Jan 2018
Messages
1,620
Thats what I expected. I just find it really odd that there is pain in the exact same spot where my vaccine was (coincidence and I'm over thinking)

Yeah it could be psychosomatics; somehow COVID is making you think of the jab and therefore making a kind of pain in the arm. I'm not a fan of injections, so whenever I think of them I get a dull ache in my arm where I usually have them.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
55,099
Location
Yorkshire
I tested positive for covid this morning on an lfd test.
My 2nd jab was in June.
My symptoms are a runny nose, temperature and weirdly my arm hurts where I was jabbed.
My partner also has worse symptoms than me but tested negative.
A lot of people, especially younger people, seem to be becoming unwell for a few days with viruses other than SARS-CoV-2.

Based on conversations and correspondence I have had with children and their parents, they are generally getting much worse symptoms than their peers who test positive for SARS-CoV-2.
 

Darandio

Established Member
Joined
24 Feb 2007
Messages
9,713
Location
Redcar
A lot of people, especially younger people, seem to be becoming unwell for a few days with viruses other than SARS-CoV-2.

Based on conversations and correspondence I have had with children and their parents, they are generally getting much worse symptoms than their peers who test positive for SARS-CoV-2.

Two of mine have had seriously bad ones over the last week. First one had it from last Friday and only recovered yesterday. Second one has had it since Monday. I've now got it as well.

It just feels like a really, really bad cold and something we would probably have shook off two years ago. But as we seem to have hardly any immune siystem right now even a simple cold is a major event.
 

kristiang85

Established Member
Joined
23 Jan 2018
Messages
1,620
It just feels like a really, really bad cold and something we would probably have shook off two years ago. But as we seem to have hardly any immune siystem right now even a simple cold is a major event.e

Yes I think people forget that the "common cold" is only so mild because most people experience it once or twice a year and the immune system keeps it in check (and they are various different viruses, so it's good to have a couple of them a year).

Even people I know who are never ill are being hit hard this year by colds.

Don't forget it was colds that helped wipe out the people of the New World as they had zero immunity to them....
 

DustyBin

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2020
Messages
1,604
Location
First Class
Yes I think people forget that the "common cold" is only so mild because most people experience it once or twice a year and the immune system keeps it in check (and they are various different viruses, so it's good to have a couple of them a year).

Even people I know who are never ill are being hit hard this year by colds.

Don't forget it was colds that helped wipe out the people of the New World as they had zero immunity to them....

Many of us on here predicted this would happen, but “because not covid” seemingly nobody cared… It was obvious we were storing up problems.
 

Darandio

Established Member
Joined
24 Feb 2007
Messages
9,713
Location
Redcar
Many of us on here predicted this would happen, but “because not covid” seemingly nobody cared… It was obvious we were storing up problems.

Indeed, I was the same. I just couldn't imagine how bad a cold might actually be until I got one after all of this protective bubble nonsense. It's not quite flu (which i've had once in my life and never wish to see again) but it's not far off putting me to bed completely.
 

kristiang85

Established Member
Joined
23 Jan 2018
Messages
1,620
Many of us on here predicted this would happen, but “because not covid” seemingly nobody cared… It was obvious we were storing up problems.

Oh yes indeed it has often been said here - I think I'd been saying it in April last year.

New Zealand seems to be having massing problems with this "immunity debt" in children.
 

Top