Watford Blockades

[swt_passenger]

The Watford Blockades should have been done on a weekend when it would have been less quieter. Why did they choose the bank hol weekend when more people will be travelling than on a normal weekend?

Probably because they reason that the Sunday of a bank holiday weekend is much quieter, so they get a whole extra day's work compared to a normal weekend?

 

[Sanatogen]

But for today, the National Rail engineering works advance info says the WLL service was running only to Shepherds Bush until 1030, and only as far as Watford Junction from 1030. Perhaps someone's crystal ball foresaw a need to thin the service out...

The same info doesn't seem to appear on the Southern engineering work page though...

I suspect they were only going as far as watford due to the fast lines being under possesion until Tuesday morning.

 

[Nym]

It is when they've got Voyager style bogies...I challenge you to try fitting a tripcock to a 172 :P

Challenge would be accepted if I'd ever seen the shape of them bogies, but if it's anything like the DLR bogies then it wouldn't be that difficult, especially without shoegear in the way.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I was on the 1935 Virgin service out of Manchester on Saturday evening which was terminating at Rugby due to the blockade. The train manager announced a complex series of connections / replacement services with an arrival into Euston at 0207 - a mere 4 hours and 6 minutes longer than normal! And such a convenient time for onward connections home too!

I understand and accept the need for engineering works but proper alternatives need to be put in place.

In the reverse direction, it is pointless suggesting that passengers travel by EMT from St Pancras to Derby when the last train from Derby to Stoke-on-Trent and Crewe is as early as 2042.

 

[Nym]

I was on the 1935 Virgin service out of Manchester on Saturday evening which was terminating at Rugby due to the blockade. The train manager announced a complex series of connections / replacement services with an arrival into Euston at 0207 - a mere 4 hours and 6 minutes longer than normal! And such a convenient time for onward connections home too!

I understand and accept the need for engineering works but proper alternatives need to be put in place.

In the reverse direction, it is pointless suggesting that passengers travel by EMT from St Pancras to Derby when the last train from Derby to Stoke-on-Trent and Crewe is as early as 2042.

Or you could have looked at all the publicity and decided to travel via Reading with a mere 2 hour extra journey time?

 

[aylesbury2]

Challenge would be accepted if I'd ever seen the shape of them bogies, but if it's anything like the DLR bogies then it wouldn't be that difficult, especially without shoegear in the way.

I assure you it's impossible to fit a tripcock to a 172, because of the Flexx-Eco Bogie fitted to it - everything is mounted inside of the undercarriage and there is nowhere to put one - otherwise I'm sure Chiltern would have done so.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Or you could have looked at all the publicity and decided to travel via Reading with a mere 2 hour extra journey time?

Not a problem for me, as I was only going to smoky Stoke, and on an Advance anyway.

But, as mentioned by another poster, the publicity was as clear as mud. On-line journey planners were offering itineraries which, when you asked for the details it refused to go through to them, no paper timetables were produced, the suggested alternative routes were not clear, ticket validities were not clear, Virgin had a combined leaflet for Easter and May Day. Why bother making things easy for the paying customer when you can just **** them over time and time again? See the thread on Chiltern not honouring tickets honestly bought.

 

[Nym]

I assure you it's impossible to fit a tripcock to a 172, because of the Flexx-Eco Bogie fitted to it - everything is mounted inside of the undercarriage and there is nowhere to put one - otherwise I'm sure Chiltern would have done so.

Weld a bracket up and attach it to the main damper support or a bracket onto the base under where the air suspension mounts.
Nothing is impossible, I wonder how many people said it wasn't possible to fit TBTC or DTG-R to a 1930s tractioned battery locomotive.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

At least one train (9M48, the 0817 Preston-Euston via Birmingham) was diverted via Banbury at short notice (according to Twitter) - clearly Virgin have a few drivers who sign the route outright, rather than needing to hire in route conductors.

Euston men have been road learning/refreshing via the Chilterns for blockade busters later in the year during the other sets of works at Watford. I'd imagine a huge chunk of the depot sign via Banbury at the moment.

 

[palmersears]

Network Rail are caught between a rock and a hard place with this, let's be honest. Closures never go down well, regardless of whether they're a series of weekends or one long block. As somebody who uses the WCML perhaps once every month (on average) I would personally prefer once long block that I can then avoid, but I fully sympathise with those who commute along it and do not wish to experience upheaval on weekdays.

I went back home to Stockport from Euston on Friday and it was genuinely staggering to see the number of people in my carriage who weren't aware of what was happening when informed over the PA by the TM. A whole army of them marched down to the poor sod's little booth, I've no idea how she placated them all! It does highlight that a fair few people were clearly caught out by this.

Also looks like they still had a fair amount left to do when I came back on the 15:43 ex-Stockport today. We crawled through WJ, and they were still to add the ballast in to the fasts(?) and get everything cleared up.

Finally, I also spotted the fasts were closed all the way to Euston. Was this due to the WJ work or had they used this opportunity to undertake additional repairs elsewhere in between?

 

[Class 170101]

Perhaps NR would have been better waiting until Paddington to Birmingham via Reading and Oxford was wired and then divert Pendolinos (non-tilt) this way.

 

[calc7]

Perhaps NR would have been better waiting until Paddington to Birmingham via Reading and Oxford was wired and then divert Pendolinos (non-tilt) this way.

Really? Wait several years to perform a few weekends' work?

The Trent Valley was shut for weeks without all this drama!

 

[infobleep]

Anyway it's even overrun into this morning. No Southern services north of Shepberds Bush. Great news for commuters who use the West London Line. These things happen though.

Nothing to say when it will return to normal so they must not know. Perhaps it will last all day.

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[Bald Rick]

All lines were reopened before 0630.

 

[steverailer]

Really? Wait several years to perform a few weekends' work?

The Trent Valley was shut for weeks without all this drama!

More than a few weekend, the total project is 66 weeks

 

[infobleep]

All lines were reopened before 0630.

Well that isn't what the disruption report on National Rail Enquiries said. It gave the impression, by not stating a time, that it was on going.

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[infobleep]

Deleted

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[aylesbury2]

Weld a bracket up and attach it to the main damper support or a bracket onto the base under where the air suspension mounts.
Nothing is impossible, I wonder how many people said it wasn't possible to fit TBTC or DTG-R to a 1930s tractioned battery locomotive.

I emailed Chiltern today and received the following reply:

Unfortunately, this is not something which will be done.

The 172 bogie is a very different design to a Cl.165 or 168. On the two older fleets, the bearing housing (often called the axlebox) is on the end of the axles. The beam that the Tripcock is suspended from is mounted off the axleboxes. On a Cl.172, the bearing is inboard of the wheel, therefore there is nothing to mount the Tripcock from.

Additionally to this, the infrastructure between Aylesbury and Marylebone (notably down the MET line) has a very limited linespeed. The Cl.165s are limited to 75mph, so are suited to low linespeed infrastructure. We gain much from the Cl.172 (which is a 100mph train) by using them down the western route, as the linespeeds are higher. The Cl.172 fleet are great as 'stoppers' amongst the fast Birmingham trains, as they have high acceleration too.

Finally; we have 8 Cl.172 vehicles, and 89 Cl.165s. There are no plans to obtain any more Cl.172s as a) they are very expensive, and b) manufacturers do not wish to make them any more, as the UK railway is moving towards electrification.

 

[ushawk]

Well that isn't what the disruption report on National Rail Enquiries said. It gave the impression, by not stating a time, that it was on going.

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The issues this morning were signalling related at Harrow which resulted in reduced capacity so Southern didnt run North of Shepherds Bush.

 

[infobleep]

The issue I reported earlier and changed to signalling problems.
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/76182.aspx

What the above page doesn't say is that trains going north are not stopping at Bushy or Harrow and Wealdstone. I'm not surprised it doesn't say that as although it might actually be useful to the customer, most disruption notices for London Midland services on that route, when I use to travel that way regularly, never mentioned changes to Tring trains. Even if they were all cancelled, it wouldn't say anything.

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[Emyr]

Virgin are running hourly Crewe-Manchester-Oxenholme voyagers via Bolton this weekend (late afternoon/evening ones going through to Birmingham) due to the additional closure at Wigan so it probably means there are not enough voyagers available to be able to do both diversions with adequate train length/frequency on the same day.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S13227/2014/05/03/advanced

Given the 20mph section just north of Bolton station, what would stop them from actually stopping at Bolton? The time lost would be minimal compared with a station which would otherwise be a 75/90/100+ pass, and Bolton services have been quite crowded since many of the TPE services switched to the electrified run from Wigan to Manchester.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Given the 20mph section just north of Bolton station, what would stop them from actually stopping at Bolton? The time lost would be minimal compared with a station which would otherwise be a 75/90/100+ pass, and Bolton services have been quite crowded since many of the TPE services switched to the electrified run from Wigan to Manchester.

Because their franchise agreement prohibits it (unless it was an agreed alternative to Wigan).
They cannot just pick up and set down anywhere they like.
ORR, Northern and TPE would all have to agree to it (and the TOCs take a revenue hit, which is why it won't happen under the current franchises).
VT also need to minimise time on diversion to get back to their proper route as soon as possible.

 

[Nym]

I emailed Chiltern today and received the following reply:

That doesnt say that it cant be done, looking at the photos of the bogie it is clear that it can. It states that they dont want to do it for a number of reasons.

 

[AndyPJG]

That doesnt say that it cant be done, looking at the photos of the bogie it is clear that it can. It states that they dont want to do it for a number of reasons.

Possibly needs to be mounted unsprung rather than on the sprung part, to maintain correct height relationship to the track equipment.

 

[aylesbury2]

That doesnt say that it cant be done, looking at the photos of the bogie it is clear that it can. It states that they dont want to do it for a number of reasons.

Yep, because they make a lot more £££ from the Birmingham line!

 

[Nym]

Possibly needs to be mounted unsprung rather than on the sprung part, to maintain correct height relationship to the track equipment.

It's still very much possible, but would need more than the explanation I can be bothered typing at the moment.

Basically extend out near the axle, clear of the primary, front and rear to make one side of the H frame, supporting 50kg with secondary retention shouldn't be too much pf a challenge.

 

[swt_passenger]

It's still very much possible, but would need more than the explanation I can be bothered typing at the moment.

Basically extend out near the axle, clear of the primary, front and rear to make one side of the H frame, supporting 50kg with secondary retention shouldn't be too much pf a challenge.

Surely it has to be only about the same degree of technical difficulty as Siemens fitting a third rail pickup shoe to their inside framed bogie for the 700s?

 

[Nym]

Surely it has to be only about the same degree of technical difficulty as Siemens fitting a third rail pickup shoe to their inside framed bogie for the 700s?

Yes indeedy. Thanks for the backup there.

The only primary difference being that the tripcock can't be designed to fall off if it's hit, where modern shoe gear (where I have seen the design, for example on S Stock) is designed to fail in such a way to minimize damage.

 

[infobleep]

The signal problems are now resolved. For a time trains to Tring, which had not been stopping at Bushy or Harrow and Wealdstone were cancelled for all stations. Then it included those heading south too. Eventually when peak rush hour came along they found they were able to run trains north but still not south, despite the south services previously being possible when Northern services were not possible.

Interestingly, whilst looking up an alternative service on the London Overground, I came across a message at the top staying the reason for the delay was due to earlier industrial action. I thought the tube services were running today.

The train itself was at most 3 minutes late and started and arrived on time, so the apology was probably over the top, given the amount of trains delayed by more than 5 minutes which regularly get no reason given.

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[hick]

That is because the train has been restored after having been originally cancelled at the closed LU stations. There is no "due to cancelled industrial action" message in the system and it say delayed regardless of the action taken